306 replies to this topic

[Ghogiel]

Valcrow, on 15 October 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think shimmering sword designed the original artwork for this particular one, and Sentinel 3dified it... So unless shimmering sword assigned the rights or was commissioned for it he should still have retained rights over the original design. And sentinel has rights over his 3D source files, but who knows, copyright's all confusing nowadays.

Unlikely. No company is going to transfer rights of any part of their IP, which could be worth 100's of thousands or even millions, to any humble artist they commission. It is the artist that has to sign NDAs and relinquishes any control on work created. In my experience the few things the artist usually gets is paid and the right to use the artwork they created in their portfolio.


Sentinel while owns the rights to his models in the strict sense, what he has done falls under what is called derivative works in copyright law. Basically he can only free distribute the parts of the design he created himself OR change the design substantially that it qualifies as a new work entirely. Any parts he adapted to 3d that is based on the original work, he doesn't own copyright on. Doesn't leave much as it is as faithful reproduction of the original art in this case.

And even if SSword did the redesign as a noncommissioned BT fanart it still has to qualify as original work under derivative works criteria. It might do I suppose, but it's muddy waters. Him saying it's cool to use his design is one thing, still doesn't mean that who ever has the rights to BT mini production is going to be OK with that. Which could be.. messy. I imagine in pretty much any fan art case, lawyers will just be like> so it's fan art derived from art in an established IP right? Since when did they transfer the rights to you or did you invent the marauder? GG

And lastly I doubt wants to step on toes, burn bridges, or worst case, has money to burn on expense court cases .

[DirePhoenix]

Ghogiel, on 16 October 2013 - 12:40 AM, said:

Unlikely. No company is going to transfer rights of any part of their IP, which could be worth 100's of thousands or even millions, to any humble artist they commission. It is the artist that has to sign NDAs and relinquishes any control on work created. In my experience the few things the artist usually gets is paid and the right to use the artwork they created in their portfolio.


Sentinel while owns the rights to his models in the strict sense, what he has done falls under what is called derivative works in copyright law. Basically he can only free distribute the parts of the design he created himself OR change the design substantially that it qualifies as a new work entirely. Any parts he adapted to 3d that is based on the original work, he doesn't own copyright on. Doesn't leave much as it is as faithful reproduction of the original art in this case.

And even if SSword did the redesign as a noncommissioned BT fanart it still has to qualify as original work under derivative works criteria. It might do I suppose, but it's muddy waters. Him saying it's cool to use his design is one thing, still doesn't mean that who ever has the rights to BT mini production is going to be OK with that. Which could be.. messy. I imagine in pretty much any fan art case, lawyers will just be like> so it's fan art derived from art in an established IP right? Since when did they transfer the rights to you or did you invent the marauder? GG

And lastly I doubt wants to step on toes, burn bridges, or worst case, has money to burn on expense court cases .

So in order for "official Battletech minis" using this art to be produced, Topps would have to buy the art from SS, and then IronWind Metals (official producers of BattleTech miniatures) could produce official Battletech Marauder miniatures using that art, licensed from Topps.

Which is unlikely considering Topps already has art for a Marauder to be used in Battletech, and IronWind Metals is already producing minis of it.

Or, people can print and use the "Shimmering Sword's Marauder" (not necessarily referencing Battletech) designs for free and just say it's standing in for a Battletech Marauder when they put it on the gaming table.

[Overkill C7]

It'd be nice if someone made these available in table top scale...just say'n.

[SqueezeBox]

I hope that your 3d models give inspiration to Topps and IWM to get some better quality minis for TT Battletech. And I hope they are your 3d models they use to reward you for your incredible work. Good Luck Sentinel.

I am officially putting my name in the request hat, as I play TT with my boys using cardstock standups and would love to have real minis that look good.

[BeyondLegend]

It's awesome, those are really good stuffs!

[Ghogiel]

DirePhoenix, on 16 October 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

So in order for "official Battletech minis" using this art to be produced, Topps would have to buy the art from SS, and then IronWind Metals (official producers of BattleTech miniatures) could produce official Battletech Marauder miniatures using that art, licensed from Topps.

Which is unlikely considering Topps already has art for a Marauder to be used in Battletech, and IronWind Metals is already producing minis of it.

Or, people can print and use the "Shimmering Sword's Marauder" (not necessarily referencing Battletech) designs for free and just say it's standing in for a Battletech Marauder when they put it on the gaming table.

The first part, yeah.

Second part is iffy.

Who ever is distributing the files, whether for free or not is irrelevant, for people to print themselves could still be liable to at least a C&D. Under derivative works law the redesign would have to satisfy certain criteria or else it is subject to copyright of the original that it is based on. The question is: does it? I would say yes.

[Reno Blade]

Sentinel373, on 29 August 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Presenting the Marauder prototype:




next i'm going to clean off the remaining wax and put it in primer so you can really see the details

I have to say, this transparent model has a certain hologram feeling I really like. Did you put a lightsource below?

[Macbrea]

Hey, Sentinel. Can you do us a favor when you get copies of these mechs. Find out how much water each one displaces?

I know silly question.. but, I am curious as to the displacement of each. In theory, it may end some arguments that this atlas is 100tons and this shadowhawk is 55 tons. People think a 55 ton object should be half the height of a 100ton. In theory.. a 100 ton object should displace 1 unit and a 55 ton object should displace .55 units.

[Makhila]

Macbrae, the mass of a mech is not a linear relationship to height. A 100 ton mech would not be twice as tall as a 50 ton mech if they were constructed with similar materials and anthropomorphic designs. Basically, are they both man-shape like Hunchies and Atlai? Unless you constrain the other two dimensions and get a Manute Bol mech, doubling the height (and depth and width) of a mech would increase the volume by a factor of eight (2 times 2 times 2). The mass wouldn't go up quite that much due to wall thicknesses and such, but it would be a lot. Mechs aren't homogeneous like water. Speaking of wall thicknesses- an Atlas carries as much armor as some mechs weigh. Since this armor is very dense, it wouldn't take up nearly as much room per ton as, say, missile launchers or heat sinks. In short, an Atlas could be 25 or 30% taller than a Shadowhawk and mass nearly twice as much. That said- I built the Revell model of the Shadowhawk back in the 70's in 1:72 scale and it would dwarf an Atlas in this setting . [edit for spelling]

Edited by Makhila, 20 October 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[Lord Perversor]

Makhila, on 20 October 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

Macbrae, the mass of a mech is not a linear relationship to height. A 100 ton mech would not be twice as tall as a 50 ton mech if they were constructed with similar materials and anthropomorphic designs. Basically, are they both man-shape like Hunchies and Atlai? Unless you constrain the other two dimensions and get a Manute Bol mech, doubling the height (and depth and width) of a mech would increase the volume by a factor of eight (2 times 2 times 2). The mass wouldn't go up quite that much due to wall thicknesses and such, but it would be a lot. Mechs aren't homogeneous like water. Speaking of wall thicknesses- an Atlas carries as much armor as some mechs weigh. Since this armor is very dense, it wouldn't take up nearly as much room per ton as, say, missile launchers or heat sinks. In short, an Atlas could be 25 or 30% taller than a Shadowhawk and mass nearly twice as much. That said- I built the Revell model of the Shadowhawk back in the 70's in 1:72 scale and it would dwarf an Atlas in this setting . [edit for spelling]

Or to put it sort

What takes more space 1kg of straw or 1kg of iron.

Again density of materials and weights are quite important, also how much weight and density can change from a 30 ton mech myomer to a 100 ton myomer.

[Macbrea]

Since, this isn't a scientific experiment per say.. when he prints more of them. Which he is likely to do. the cubic density of the material he uses will be similar in nature. It being the same material. This means the volume will give a rough ideal cubic displacement of the mech. This is something that isn't easy to tell from the pictures. Though a correct program could simulate all of the materials and give an exact item. I don't expect it to be close as the artists picture is based off what looks good vs what is reality.

And we will have to assume that platting, myomer and weapondry is the same size.

And I am not suggesting he do it with a painted one. That would be a crime.

Edited by Macbrea, 20 October 2013 - 07:27 PM.

[Makhila]

The printer could probably tell him how many cc's of resin were used. For that matter, Maya could probably tell him. The easiest thing, if these are solids, is to weigh them, subtracting the weight of the base. I think he has a base somewhere that's missing its Jenner :-(

[Burning Chrome]

Any sign of the Quickdraw series, Kintaro series and how about the Thunderbolt series? I'd like a couple of each mech scale, and know several others who do as well.

Keep up the excellent work!

[Nikguy]

Adridos, on 04 May 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

So far, I've only got to the point of knowing that Catapult actually has a sideways ejection system... which is certainly not represented on the MW:O art, or any Catapult art for that matter.

So i am kind of interested to know what a sideways ejection system is.... It doesn't eject out the side does it?

[DirePhoenix]

Nikguy, on 21 October 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

So i am kind of interested to know what a sideways ejection system is.... It doesn't eject out the side does it?

I kind of doubt any land-based-vehicle ejection system would actually work, especially as most of them are portrayed as fighter plane style ejection systems. In aircraft ejection systems, even when they have no power and are plummeting toward the ground, they still have a few seconds to get things in order before they leave the plane, and can't even eject if they're too low to the ground anyway (and if they did, their parachute wouldn't open enough or slow themselves down enough to not kill them on impact). Even in most helicopters, you're probably better off staying inside and riding the thing down than trying to eject.

[Pariah Devalis]

Fun fact from experience, an autorotation (well, powered autorotation) is actually kinda fun in a helicopter, and if done right as a passenger you would not even be aware that you just crashed. Stressful but kinda fun as the pilot, though....

As for ejection systems, modern aircraft ejection systems are actually designed to be used at zero airspeed zero altitude. Cases where this might happen would be, say, a fuel fire on the taxiway. Back to battletech, Full head Ejection Systems exist. Hatchetman is an example of one, and I would not be surprised if the entire head on a spider is a self contained pod that can jettison away.

[Adridos]

Nikguy, on 21 October 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

So i am kind of interested to know what a sideways ejection system is.... It doesn't eject out the side does it?

Well, 4chan guys explain that a bit better than I could do:

"For some bizarre reason Hollis Inc opted for a sideways ejection system instead of the traditional upwards. Though it reduces the risk of landing on the wrecked remains of your own 'Mech, it will send you tumbling asscheeks-over-facecheeks when your capsule hits the ground."

And TRO's themselves (TRO:3039 and TRO:3025R with respective texts):

"Also different is the sidewise ejection system. Regarded as generally safe, it is a surprise to warriors who have never seen a Catapult’s ejection before. The Catapult's ejection seat fires through a side-firing escape hatch instead of the more common roof hatch."


... Yeah, you get the idea I know it works differently, but never thought much about how exactly.

[DirePhoenix]

Pariah Devalis, on 22 October 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Fun fact from experience, an autorotation (well, powered autorotation) is actually kinda fun in a helicopter, and if done right as a passenger you would not even be aware that you just crashed. Stressful but kinda fun as the pilot, though....

As for ejection systems, modern aircraft ejection systems are actually designed to be used at zero airspeed zero altitude. Cases where this might happen would be, say, a fuel fire on the taxiway. Back to battletech, Full head Ejection Systems exist. Hatchetman is an example of one, and I would not be surprised if the entire head on a spider is a self contained pod that can jettison away.

The Hatchetman's head-jettisoning system was a first of its kind, not reproduced until the Axman. The Spider doesn't even have an ejection system. From TRO: 3025: "The Spider's only real design flaw is that its particular configuration of armor and sensors leave no room for installation of a pilot escape system. Thus, in case of emergency, the Spider pilot must make his way manually to the lower hatch to exit the mech."

[Pariah Devalis]

Interesting. Figured an ejection system was standard equipment on all battlemechs. Man, good thing they seem down right impossible to damage effectively because the pilot is screwed otherwise.

[BIix]

Great work Sentinel.

Can you talk a bit about the possibility of making the part files for these available for others to download and print out?

I for one would greatly appreciate any information you'd be willing to share and discuss about it.