179 replies to this topic

[Atheus]

Recently a provocative thread has emerged from a light pilot who loves to use preemptive base capture as a major tactical tool. I'll let the poll speak for itself, for now.

Edited by Atheus, 05 May 2013 - 05:36 AM.

[Crossbone 2]

Can we have a third option for the last question cause I have to say that both can be equally fun

[Atheus]

Crossbone 2, on 05 May 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

Can we have a third option for the last question cause I have to say that both can be equally fun

Done

[Davers]

While it's true that without CW matches are only good for earning Cbills and exp. But this is teaching bad habits. When we are actually fighting over territory a win will be a win, and people who don't (or won't) defend their base will be responsible for their faction losing. I imagine base cap attempts will only increase when we get CW.

[Pater Mors]

I think you're misrepresenting Neverfar a bit there. His tactic is to begin a base capture to draw some of the enemy team back from the front line and split the enemy force. Yes, he occasionally captures early when people cry like little girls just to annoy them (which is admittedly a bit trollish, but I can't say I blame him), but splitting the enemy team is a perfectly valid and good tactic to use. I started doing it last night and won nearly every game I played.

If people want to continue playing "MechWarrior: British Redcoats" edition, then that's what's going to continue happening.

Edited by Pater Mors, 05 May 2013 - 01:14 PM.

[Aaron45]

What we need is the arena Mode.


Watch the Linkhttp://mwomercs.com/...53#entry2214753

[Hotthedd]

The only time I am ever bothered by a basecap win is when all 8 of the enemy rush the base with no intention of engaging, then say "defend your base, noobs". We don't have TIME to get back and defend with 8 mechs on the cap, and anything less than 6 mechs defending will probably not survive.

[The Strange]

It is a viable tactic in an assault march. That is why the objective is there. It isn't death match mode, where the only victory condition is to kill off the opposing team. If your team is unable, or unwilling to defend the base, then you can lose that way. Personally, I find it funny when people rage over a base cap. I ended up in 3 matches in a row last night, where I got put on the same team with premade 4-man groups, and they left the pug players to die as a distraction while they just ran for the cap. It happens.

[Rackminster]

All I'm reading out of this poll is that a lot of people don't think it's fun to cap for the win - which, typically it isn't. It's fantastically boring to get a "Win" by capping without any fighting first.

However, as Pater points out - the other thread is dedicated to the tactical use of base capping in order to divide, distract, and demoralize the enemy - which is perfectly valid (and so is capping for fun and capping without a single shot being fired).

Instead of griping about it as a "lame" practice, why not try defending your base? I know it's hard for pop-tarting snipers to lumber their pokey arses back there, but hey... diversify a bit, eh?

Edited by Rackminster, 05 May 2013 - 02:29 PM.

[jeffsw6]

If the base capture mechanics on Assault mode are not changed, the game will eventually devolve into base-camping. It's already starting to happen.

I have suggested, several times, that the capture mechanic be changed so there is no bonus for having 2 or more mechs in the capture box until 4 or 5 minutes into the match. This will mostly eliminate the 4 - 8 mech base-rushes that have become surprisingly popular. If they want to capture that base, they will have to defend it much longer.

What that change won't do is break what Neverfar does -- use early capture as a means to divide the opposing force. If he has another mech or two with him, it will probably provide him with easy kills on the enemy fast-mechs, and likely a base capture, too.


I also think the damage for Artillery Strike or Air Strike should be increased to 100x 10dmg shots that will fall on the target area over a longer period of time, and with a bigger delay between the pop-smoke animation and the arrival of damage. This would make the Art/Air Strikes easy to avoid (long delay) but will cause them to be effective for ... what they're designed to do .. push an entrenched enemy out of his current position.

No one will just stand around and let the thing hit them (which is what most people do right now) if it is going to do 1000 dmg in that area instead of 100 dmg. Keep in mind that the shells fall at random and it is just about impossible to do any significant damage to an enemy with an Art/Air Strike, so enemies don't move out of its way, thus, it is ******* useless.

Edited by jeffsw6, 05 May 2013 - 02:45 PM.

[blinkin]

Atheus, on 05 May 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

Done

good job on a fairly unbiased poll, regardless of what side you are on.

[Rackminster]

jeffsw6, on 05 May 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

If the base capture mechanics on Assault mode are not changed, the game will eventually devolve into base-camping. It's already starting to happen.

I believe this is false. The "mechanic" is in place as it always has been. Nothing has changed - but the game. If there's an epidemic of capping going on, perhaps you should be looking at what other "mechanic" is driving people to force a cap instead of playing peek-a-pop-tart-snipe.

Oh, wait...

[Alucard291]

Yes because asking leading questions is a good way to get an unbiased opionion

/thread

[Teshtube]

while i dislike people who cap instantly (by that i mean actually full cap) my friends and i often tap the base to draw people back, its also fun to have 3 or so medium/heavy mechs tap the base and slaughter any lights that come running to see whats happening,
but usually its enough for one person to tap the base and leg it so we can advance at their splitting lines
that im all for

and as for CW, (hopefully) people will play those differently because atm everyone is playing the game to get the most Cbills and XP each match, if i was in a match that the outcome mattered i would be happy to sit back and guard the base in a set up light killer , but as it is atm, if i ever want new mechs and stuff i have to join in the fights, plus its a lot more fun doing the blasting than reading the killfeed

Edited by Set Tesh, 05 May 2013 - 04:09 PM.

[silentD11]

Capping is combat skill. It forces the other team to break up and not be able to firing line or bang actions figures together. Not capping is a lack of combat skill.

[Davers]

I remember reading a Dev post last week that said that 19% of Assault games end with a base cap. I thought it was by Omid Kiarostami, but after looking through the Dev tracker I cannot find it anywhere.

[Keifomofutu]

Davers, on 05 May 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

I remember reading a Dev post last week that said that 19% of Assault games end with a base cap. I thought it was by Omid Kiarostami, but after looking through the Dev tracker I cannot find it anywhere.

I want to know the percentage on Alpine and Tourmaline. I mean I know for a fact forest or river city doesn't end in a cap 1 in 5 times. Its probably less than 10% on the smaller maps because you can actually get back.

[Asmudius Heng]

So far most people dislike base capping as it inhibits thier fun shooting mechs.

HOWEVER half the people say that using movement speed to win is just as fun as shooty shooty explody mechs.

To me this seems to fit. People want to fight mechs, people also want a tactical game where fast movers can influence the outcome to victory in a significant way. However the current METHOD to encourage this is very wrong and lacks the fun element.

My suggestion to make things better:

http://mwomercs.com/...mini-objectives

[matux]

I have more of an issue of people treating Conquest just as assault with more basses to ignore, I played assault with 3 others in lights yesterday and amazingly the Matchmaker only put us against 6 highlanders once out of the 7-8 matches.

Both sides for the most part went for cap some of them turned around to fight on it in a fun fast brawl on top of the their base with the counter going down... we even made someone rage hard at the end. It was pretty intense and get this... FUN... when mech weights are balanced

[LethalMezzle]

It's a perfectly legitimate strategy. You don't defend your base and you get capped, well, you should have had players ready to fall back and defend if necessary.

But that's not the question you asked.

Personally I find base capping not enjoyable at all, particularly if it's a "let's all go to their base and win without any fighting" scenario. I don't find it satisfying even if I win, unless it was a capture win when I'm the only one left versus four or so mechs.

To be perfectly honest, I don't find the objective-orientated gameplay of MWO fun at all. I like playing the objective in most multiplayer games, but not this one.