90 replies to this topic

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 10 May 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

I have no problems with a 3PPC mech laying the hurt down.

What I do have problems with is that mech laying the hurt down 6-12 times before being heatcapped.

We need mechs that are more focused on heat efficiency, instead of "all big guns, all go boom, what? i overheat? all enemy is dead and shutdown my heat dont hurt me!"

Except snipers (at least ones using PPCs) can't fire at you 6-12 times before heat cap, most of them can fire 3 times before the next would shut them down.
What they are actually doing, is waiting several seconds between shots ( coincidentally this is a downside ballistics don't have an issue with anywhere near as much)

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Neverfar, on 10 May 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

That's a distorted point of view that's very popular, if still very wrong.

If a game mechanic is heavily skewed toward one playstyle (one that's only supposed to be one of many, in this case), simply dismissing all complaint as "use Strategy™ and Skill™ to overcome, learn2play" is pretty hollow.

Seems the bloat-boaters hopping behind cover don't really need to do much more to keep their advantage. Do you really feel that special and talented hinging to such an easy mechanic?

Tip: It is easy. I am terrible at this game and my Heavy Metal can kill roughly half the enemy team whenever I decide to be cheap and dirty and hold back and poptart. It gets boring quickly and I go back to being more aggressive (and getting killed by enemy poptarts), but I hope you see my point.

No, you probably won't.

You mean your bloated brawler D-DC gets countered by ranged mechs? shame that.
Sniper mechs may still do full damage up close, but as we are specifically talking about PPC's here, people seem to forget that because of the heat generated, they can't keep up the rate of fire to out punch well outfitted brawler mechs.

What you and may others are saying, is their is a play style you don't like, because it makes your favored play style more complex.

Edited by DV McKenna, 10 May 2013 - 03:16 PM.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

So pugs can be stomped? Wow, that's news.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Neverfar, on 10 May 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Nice exaggeration. My D-DC is set up for long range, though the arm placement makes those ridge-humping shots a little difficult.

It's well and good to "outmaneuver" the bloat boats with faster Mechs, which I do sometimes, until of course they have to do very little else but stand about 180m from each other and continue the PPC spam from between each hidey-hole.

What a grand brilliant difficult strategy™ to master!

Keep aggrandizing yourself like that, and you might get hairy palms and vision problems.

Oh i see, your issue is with teamwork/teamplay.

And a long range D-DC interesting!

Sadly Teamwork will and always should win out

Edited by DV McKenna, 10 May 2013 - 03:21 PM.

[Wriath]

People that are saying 'light mechs, go get on top of their snipers' are underestimating what a 35 damage alpha will do to a light mech. Yes a good light mech can avoid most fire, but on the flip side, it only takes one mistake to be legged or lose a side torso. Not only that, but jump snipers are rarely alone, if you go dive in on one of them, there's generally 1-3 people around who will also shoot at you... and only you because you're the only person who ran up there and they can't popsnipe. The easiest way to deal with the popsnipers is to shoot out their right (your left) torso and then don't sweat 'em. The 3d cats are all xl engines and the highlander is practically harmless after you get rid of the good bits. Fat ninjas (brawler ecm atlases) that are smart and sneaky are some of the best mechs to counter jumpsnipers with, generally the pubbies will follow you around, sometimes they'll even be sneaky too, and no jumpsniper is a match for a well piloted brawler atlas from 200 meters in. As a buncha' other people on here have said the key is to come from wierd angles and shoot them when they're in the air, if you're attentive and can aim for beans, you can put a shot into a popsniper and get behind cover before his gauss clears the hill, and most people aren't going to shoot their ppc's before the gauss gets into position because they lurve their alphas.

EDIT: Wispsy I've got 7 weapons on my highlander, what in god's name are you talking about?
Further edit: hahahha oh I get it, he thinks there's only one highlander build.

Edited by Wriath, 10 May 2013 - 03:36 PM.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Lights can distract so others can advance. The point is not for them take the sniper(s) alone. If the sniper does not snipe let's say 2/3 because of annoying light harrassing that is an advantage. You do need some skill tho, yes.

[Ph30nix]

Lupus Aurelius, on 10 May 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

What ppl should be raging about is the 4-6 AC2 Jagers running on macros. I keep hearing PPC this and PPC that, but having those AC2s going at you like machine guns with the click of a single button, with better range than the ERPPC and equal speed, can't see a damn thing when they are going, can't even hold aim on a target. That is what ppl should be raging about, 8-12 damage every .5 seconds...that's a DPS of 16-24!

you do know you dont even need a macro for this right?

put all weapons in group 1, then split up weapons into each other group (same as you have todo for macro) then do this

take your fingers and drum them over groups 2-6 (or what ever last weapon is) then just as you hit hte last button HOLD your fire key and boom weapons fire just like you had the macro going. i do it all the time ive even had people cuss me out calling me cheater/hacker and macro *****.

honestly though complaining about the fast fire AC/2 is kinda stupid, they arent abusing anything they arent cheating. honestly its WORSE then just firing them all in one salvo, the only advantage is IT ROYALY ****** PEOPLE OFF. and scares the crap out of them.

but it spreads damage out alot, so its still useful to do but its a toss up.

[Wispsy]

Wriath, on 10 May 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

EDIT: Wispsy I've got 7 weapons on my highlander, what in god's name are you talking about?
Further edit: hahahha oh I get it, he thinks there's only one highlander build.

Accursed Richards, on 10 May 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

, where firing six massive weapons, especially at long range or when flying a 95-ton lump of blocky metal through the air with raw jet thrust,

SSRMs are not massive long ranged weapons, he was talking like a stalker was 95 tons and could fly with 6ppcs. As far as effective sniping weapons go, you can get 4 max, that is a 45 damage alpha and an extremely hot build, an ac20 jagermech with 1 medlas has the same alpha power and more speed and probably better heat, especially if it is gauss3erppc which is the most common build on that variant I see.

[xRaeder]

Wispsy, on 10 May 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

No highlander can fit 6 weapons, a lot actually use only 3. Many fire 2ppcs then 1 gauss. You would basically have to make weapons not accurate unless under 400m? 300m? That kind of invalidates them having 1000-1500 max range...And anything else is going to hurt brawlers more as they use more weapons...sacrificing range. Lasers do not exactly have to be held that long, you can expose yourself for the exact same amount of time and if your aim is accurate. You do not have to hold the exact same position whole time to hit with a laser, you hit fire as soon as you see the target, just as you would with ppc/gauss, and by the time you actually drop out of sight the laser is mostly if not completely finished. The ACs have their own advantages that favour always facing the target often. UA5s main advantage is its rate of fire, so of course only showing yourself for a second or 2 is not ever going to work but you put out a lot of damage very quickly. The AC10 is actually pretty much like using a ppc, can pop up and down the exact same, the AC20 is closer range with the highest damage of any weapon for a hardpoint, also you can peek for less then a second to fire it before retreating just like the PPC and Gauss. The AC2 has more range I believe and a very fast rate of fire...so you hang back further and rock them like crazy as they try and shoot you from a distance that the snipers will do no real damage.

You are literally saying "I do not like that people can aim at me whilst making effective use of cover"....A perfectly valid tactic no matter how you look at it, you either randomize the angle of the projectile so that no matter how good your aim your hits are random or...remove all cover and start people at close range?


Edit: Well as snipers are overheating this gives you time to push on them without taking fire as you are sat behind a rock shut down...And then if you run a hot build and a brawler has pushed on you...well there is a reason that shutting down is an unforgivable death sentence at a decent level of play, brawler or sniper you do not let somebody get that easy cockpit 1hit (which even a few lights can do) you manage your heat at all times :/

Pointless post because sniper weapons are effective at all ranges.

[Chaotic One]

Wriath, on 10 May 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

and no jumpsniper is a match for a well piloted brawler atlas from 200 meters in.

I had to LOL at this. Maybe against a few if the poptard builds. But the 4-6 ppc mechs are there as well, just a few good shots and your "brawler" is down. Brawling is near gone in this game ATM and does not look like it is coming back anytime soon. I am giving them 1 more patch to at least try to address this then I am joining the exodus.

[Wispsy]

Chaotic One, on 11 May 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

I had to LOL at this. Maybe against a few if the poptard builds. But the 4-6 ppc mechs are there as well, just a few good shots and your "brawler" is down. Brawling is near gone in this game ATM and does not look like it is coming back anytime soon. I am giving them 1 more patch to at least try to address this then I am joining the exodus.

So your problem is that you cannot solo a team of mechs in your brawler...

[Vaan]

If this game is use by frostbite engine.. perhaps we might not have this pop-tart debates.. destructible buildings is the only way to please both sides..

Edited by Vaan, 11 May 2013 - 07:54 AM.

[Lupus Aurelius]

I am at a loss to understand why people think that "brawling" is skillful play. Don't get me wrong, it has a time and place, but so does sniping and indirect fire, and people need to understand that. Even when I pilot an Atlas, I stick to cover as much as possible. Why? Because an intelligent person would utilize all methods to limit damage while at the same time applying damage. That's skill, not running out into the open gun blazing.

BTW, those brawlers that want close range knife fights, they use high alpha builds as well, in the hope of taking something out in a couple of volleys, or if in a group, calling out a primary for focused fire.

The difference is, where do you load your damage, long range or short range. Long range builds, unless PPC/LRM based, are useful at all ranges. Short range builds are only useful short range. Tactics in a team has to be based on the teams build, not on what you want your play style to be. Limiting long range builds means just knife fights, which are boring too if all the time.

PPCs have finally been made useful, that's why we see them so much now, compared to when they were rarely used. Even now, they are still hotter than hell, and sustaining fire is an issue. Trying to get them and gauss nerfed again will just mean close range knife fights will predominate, and that is not balanced either.

[Chaotic One]

Wispsy, on 11 May 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

So your problem is that you cannot solo a team of mechs in your brawler...

Not exactly. Someone has to round the corner and go for the enemy mechs first. The mech generally goes down in just a few seconds with nothing seriously damaged but the center torso. The other problem is being the ONLY brawler on the team. Right now there is no real disadvantage to taking a sniper build, heck they even brawl better then most brawlers.

[Chaotic One]

Lupus Aurelius, on 11 May 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

I am at a loss to understand why people think that "brawling" is skillful play. Don't get me wrong, it has a time and place, but so does sniping and indirect fire, and people need to understand that. Even when I pilot an Atlas, I stick to cover as much as possible. Why? Because an intelligent person would utilize all methods to limit damage while at the same time applying damage. That's skill, not running out into the open gun blazing.

BTW, those brawlers that want close range knife fights, they use high alpha builds as well, in the hope of taking something out in a couple of volleys, or if in a group, calling out a primary for focused fire.

The difference is, where do you load your damage, long range or short range. Long range builds, unless PPC/LRM based, are useful at all ranges. Short range builds are only useful short range. Tactics in a team has to be based on the teams build, not on what you want your play style to be. Limiting long range builds means just knife fights, which are boring too if all the time.

PPCs have finally been made useful, that's why we see them so much now, compared to when they were rarely used. Even now, they are still hotter than hell, and sustaining fire is an issue. Trying to get them and gauss nerfed again will just mean close range knife fights will predominate, and that is not balanced either.

So brawlers due to the fact we are unskilled should just except the fact we are near useless. Look at these sniper builds some do 60 frickin points to ONE location! Better at brawling then the most potent brawler build (My opinion only). I LIKE TO BRAWL sorry to be an "unskilled" obviously **** player in your eyes.

[Lupus Aurelius]

Chaotic One, on 11 May 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

So brawlers due to the fact we are unskilled should just except the fact we are near useless. Look at these sniper builds some do 60 frickin points to ONE location! Better at brawling then the most potent brawler build (My opinion only). I LIKE TO BRAWL sorry to be an "unskilled" obviously **** player in your eyes.

No, you should adapt your builds so that you have the ability to fight at all ranges, if you like to brawl, then have most of your damage potential short range, but still have long range capablity.

ANd you obviously never piloted a PPC or laser stalker, if you have a heat effiecency of 1.14, you're doing great, in a brawl, you can not, repeat CAN NOT sustain high damage fire, you have to chain fire and micromanage, or wait significant time to cool down again, while everyone is shooting at you.

Edited by Lupus Aurelius, 11 May 2013 - 08:41 AM.

[Chaotic One]

Lupus Aurelius, on 11 May 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

No, you should adapt your builds so that you have the ability to fight at all ranges, if you like to brawl, then have most of your damage potential short range, but still have long range capablity.

I am currently doing this. And frankly it suck because to compete YOU HAVE TO MOUNT FRICKIN ERPPC"S!

ANd you obviously never piloted a PPC or laser stalker, if you have a heat effiecency of 1.14, you're doing great, in a brawl, you can not, repeat CAN NOT sustain high damage fire, you have to chain fire and micromanage, or wait significant time to cool down again, while everyone is shooting at you.

Once again assuming I am a clueless noob. Yes I have one, I play it rarely because it is a over the top build bordering on flat out ludicrously overpowered. You do not have to sustain damage, 120 points to the center torso generally does it! And if you are unfortunate enough to get focused fired by two or more it is over right off. This is ALL center torso damage (and I do twist like crazy trying to spread the damage out)

Lets just call it what it is nothing but a ERPPC game no real variety left. Really this is a moot point. ALL of my gaming buddies have already given up and left due to this ******** I guess I will as well.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Chaotic One, on 11 May 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

Lets just call it what it is nothing but a ERPPC game no real variety left. Really this is a moot point. ALL of my gaming buddies have already given up and left due to this ******** I guess I will as well.

They left because they could not adapt, nothing more nothing less.

[AimRobot]

I have been PPC stalker 90% of my mwo play and i pretty much stopped when it got rediculus.
Atleast to me it wasnt no secret that ppc/gauss/ac would end up being dominating unless they made some big changes to lower ton mechs and also the way brawling works.
But instead we got heatbuff and they made lights a joke who i actualy liked as a challenge to kill.

So being a long time "sniper" and a decent one also, i side with the none snipers.
(links below so no one thinks im a brawler^^)

[Chaotic One]

DV McKenna, on 11 May 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

They left because they could not adapt, nothing more nothing less.

It is not about adapting. It is about having fun. Cored in 2 seconds = No fun So you are wrong, it is more and less.