105 replies to this topic

[Davers]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 06 May 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

Once every light mech is able to use Streak's, the Jenner comes out on top. A Raven with a little luck could beat a Jenner.

But Spiders and Commando's are going to have a very hard time.

If Streak's start working again, guess what? Highlander's can carry 3 of them. 3 volley's and the Spider is dead; no aiming necessary. And then he can still sport an AC/20 and 2 PPC's along with the Streaks.

That is why this poor state of IW/EW and Scouting is bad. Light mechs shouldn't have been frontline fighting mechs, but that's what we expect from them now.

Truth.

It's almost like we haven't seen this all before. *Boggle*. Before ECM Jenner-D's were THE light mech. That was why we said no to Jenners getting ECM. Not because we were thinking "Oh no, Jenners can stop LRMs now!" It was because Jenners with SSRMs flat out outclass every other light mech for firepower, speed, and maneuverability. ECM was the only way Ravens and Commandos (and Spiders) could compete with them.

Now it looks like we are going to go full circle with this. *sigh*

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Davers, on 06 May 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

Truth.

It's almost like we haven't seen this all before. *Boggle*. Before ECM Jenner-D's were THE light mech. That was why we said no to Jenners getting ECM. Not because we were thinking "Oh no, Jenners can stop LRMs now!" It was because Jenners with SSRMs flat out outclass every other light mech for firepower, speed, and maneuverability. ECM was the only way Ravens and Commandos (and Spiders) could compete with them.

Now it looks like we are going to go full circle with this. *sigh*

It's why I am mixed on this.

On one side, anything to help kill ECM is great.

On the other side, they used it as a band-aid and haven't fixed the core mechanics that required ECM to begin with (Streaks being a big example).

My hope is, that part of them re-working missiles is that we see Streaks hit the body part that you are aiming at when you fire. They can still home in, but if you have the reticle over an arm when it fires, it hits the arm.

Secondly, I hope they figure out that EW/IW and scouting are fubar and decide to rework them.

The bad part is we are 7 or so patches until release. So that is not good.

[Deathlike]

Roland, on 06 May 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Mechs that can't mount ECM are bottom tier currently?

It's more like, light mechs that can't mount ECM are bottom tier.

[El Bandito]

Davers, on 06 May 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

Truth. It's almost like we haven't seen this all before. *Boggle*. Before ECM Jenner-D's were THE light mech. That was why we said no to Jenners getting ECM. Not because we were thinking "Oh no, Jenners can stop LRMs now!" It was because Jenners with SSRMs flat out outclass every other light mech for firepower, speed, and maneuverability. ECM was the only way Ravens and Commandos (and Spiders) could compete with them. Now it looks like we are going to go full circle with this. *sigh*

Hey, at least Jenner is very killable. Unlike Raven with messed up hitboxes.

If a Jenner tries to break formation, it will be destroyed by PPCs and SSRMs in an instant.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 May 2013 - 04:20 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Honestly playing light mechs after the BAP changes is going to be a WTF for me.

With Stalkers/Atlas/Highlanders able to sport 3-4 Streak Launchers to go along with their big guns. And the HSR changes to ballistics and lasers?

You are nutso.

Unless you enjoy capping/resource farming.

[Deathlike]

Deathlike, on 06 May 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

It's more like, light mechs that can't mount ECM are bottom tier.

Lemme update that...

It's more like, light mechs outside of the Jenner that can't mount ECM are bottom tier.

Fixed.

[El Bandito]

Deathlike, on 06 May 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Lemme update that... It's more like, light mechs outside of the Jenner that can't mount ECM are bottom tier. Fixed.

Wait for the Javelin. More armor than the COM-2D but with just as many Streaks. Specifically, JVN-10P.

JVN-11B comes with ECM and BAP.

JVN-11A carries seven medium lasers!

Edited by El Bandito, 06 May 2013 - 04:34 PM.

[Eboli]

Hey there guys/gals.

Just remember that throughout this whole ECM/3L/HSR lasers/HSR ballistics period there have been players who have actually stuck true to the Jenners even through the suffering.

These are the pilots you will need need to be aware of.

I can actually see the Jenner K making some sort of reappearance on the battlefield with its ability to have a decent weapons loadout, Engine size, armour, BAP, 1-2 JJs and 4 modules of choice. 4mls and a SRM4 or a 1 x SSRM2 as loadout choice.

Ravens have had their time on top but soon the Jenner will again re-emerge as a highly capable multitasking mech in the hands of a good pilot. For teamplay - even more dangerous.

Cheers!
Eboli

Edited by Eboli, 06 May 2013 - 04:32 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

It's fine that some people still play Jenner's.

The problem is, there is a huge lack of Streak's on larger mechs due to ECM being prevalent.

Once BAP counters ECM, you will start seeing more Streak's. So yeah you might be the king of the light mechs.

But suddenly that Centurion has 2-3 Streaks, that Highlander has 2-3 Streaks, etc...

And those are just the back-ups to the big weapons.

So they can kill you in a few easy fire and forget volley's then get back to the hard work.

Unless of course PGI addresses Streaks...long shot...I know.

[Roland]

Deathlike, on 06 May 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Lemme update that...

It's more like, light mechs outside of the Jenner that can't mount ECM are bottom tier.

Fixed.

So it's basically:
Garbage ravens and spiders are bottom tier

ECM was the single most important piece of equipment for light mechs.... until the net code improved. While still extremely powerful, now that any weapon can consistently hit a light mech, the utility of ECM has dropped dramatically for them. It's no longer a magical shield against the one weapon that could hit them consistently.

And really, lots of knew that when the netcode was fixed, there was gonna be a reckoning... because when the netcode was broken, there were a huge number of terribad raven pilots who mistakenly thought they were good... who started getting absolutely ruined by everyone when weapons started hitting the target and doing damage consistently. And then they were like, "OMG PPC OP".

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I'm heading to bed, but this is not going to end well. I will say that.

[El Bandito]

Roland, on 06 May 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

So it's basically: Garbage ravens and spiders are bottom tier ECM was the single most important piece of equipment for light mechs.... until the net code improved. While still extremely powerful, now that any weapon can consistently hit a light mech, the utility of ECM has dropped dramatically for them. It's no longer a magical shield against the one weapon that could hit them consistently. And really, lots of knew that when the netcode was fixed, there was gonna be a reckoning... because when the netcode was broken, there were a huge number of terribad raven pilots who mistakenly thought they were good... who started getting absolutely ruined by everyone when weapons started hitting the target and doing damage consistently. And then they were like, "OMG PPC OP".

RVN-3L will never be garbage. It is a scout mech that can take absurd amount of damage. Even more than Jenner.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 May 2013 - 04:40 PM.

[Eboli]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 06 May 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

It's fine that some people still play Jenner's.

The problem is, there is a huge lack of Streak's on larger mechs due to ECM being prevalent.

Once BAP counters ECM, you will start seeing more Streak's. So yeah you might be the king of the light mechs.

But suddenly that Centurion has 2-3 Streaks, that Highlander has 2-3 Streaks, etc...

And those are just the back-ups to the big weapons.

So they can kill you in a few easy fire and forget volley's then get back to the hard work.

Unless of course PGI addresses Streaks...long shot...I know.

Yes - very true - streaks are the bane of a light mech pilot and I won't argue otherwise.

Light pilots just have to think smarter and be more careful in the gameplay options. The one thing PGI seriously need to consider are adding benefits that reward light pilots with CR and Exp. Hopefully for the future.

I'll have fun in a Jenner no matter what

Cheers!
Eboli

Edit - typo.

Edited by Eboli, 06 May 2013 - 05:09 PM.

[Davers]

El Bandito, on 06 May 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

RVN-3L will never be garbage. It is a scout mech that can take absurd amount of damage. Even more than Jenner.

No, Raven 3Ls will always be competitive. Just the other Ravens will be even worse off.

[Asmosis]

TruePoindexter, on 06 May 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

Well with the current high burst meta.. the SSRM A1 will be hard pressed to make a huge impact.

The larger change will be the RVN-3L no longer being the defacto light hunter. The JR7-D and CDA-X5 will probably take the top spot for that role.

with the reduced missile damage currently yeah, A1's will make nice light hunters, and things up to maybe 50 tons, but a decent hunch would take one out no problem. Wont feel so bad about having BAP in my stalkers foot for no reason other than i didnt have enough tonnage to mount a bigger engine

[dario03]

Getting rid of streaks or drastically nerfing them would of been better. Light battles wouldn't be decided by who had more ecm/streaks. Lights wouldn't be getting nerfed so bad against bigger mechs but wouldn't get a buff either. ECM would help against lrms but up close 1 on 1 it would almost be wasted 1.5tons and 2 crits so taking it would actually have some what of a downside. Jenner would be the best brawler light and ecm mechs would be good for regular scouting, support, capping.

[Asmosis]

streaks *are* nerfed drastically currently.

I did mount them on my stalkers for a while and never had much of an issue with ECM lights. I removed them after the missile nerf in favor of more heatsinks since they just dont deal much damage now. I can do a lot better with the extra heat using lasers/ppcs vs light mechs.

That will probably change when missiles get fixed in a few weeks, but the deciding factor has never been ECM for me. they were always a secondary weapon with only 1 ton of ammo for 4-5 of them and seldom ran out. Main perk was the +10% section armor in arms/side torso for having closed missile bays

*edit*
i've been considering putting srm2's in with no ammo just for the armor bonus, but they'd take crit slots DHS need. Can someone confirm if the armor bonus is just the texture area the missile doors cover (makes sense) or the entire mech location (say front RT or arm) that the missile is located in (makes practical sense) ?

Edited by Asmosis, 06 May 2013 - 06:53 PM.

[Asmudius Heng]

It is better than before but still backwards in that everything still revolves around ECM instead of ECM being one part of a larger picture.

As i said in another thread - its good for LRM users to not get shut down and still shoot out allowing you to continue to cause damage while fending off the ecm carrier - but it is like an ECM tax for SSRM users who will have to take it to avoid the possibility of being rendered useless.

There are FAR more elegant design decisions that PGI could have made in regards to ECM and BAP and the way the entire sensor system works.

[Thomas Dziegielewski]

A bug fix should also make it in tomorrow giving the NARC the power it should have had since it's conception. It will overpower ECM.

-If a target is NARCed it will now show up for all NARC team allies for 15 sec.
-ECM will NOT protect the NARCed target from showing up for allies.
-If a mech takes 40 points of damage the NARC will 'fall off'.

[One Medic Army]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 06 May 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

A bug fix should also make it in tomorrow giving the NARC the power it should have had since it's conception. It will overpower ECM.

-If a target is NARCed it will now show up for all NARC team allies for 15 sec.
-ECM will NOT protect the NARCed target from showing up for allies.
-If a mech takes 40 points of damage the NARC will 'fall off'.

That and the LRM de-nerf on the 21st might finally get me to carry one.
I like it being a viable option now, with some unique abilities, thank you.