183 replies to this topic

[kosmos1214]

ScorpionNinja, on 23 November 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

well i wonder WTF PGI would make Clan Rotary Autocannons behave like?

Ultra Autocannons ALREADY BEHAVE like RACs for christ sake!!! hahaaa

um no they dont they act like acs by definition auto cannons fire more then 1 shell the reason IS acs only fire 1 shell is balancing reasons

[Omaha]

EvilCow, on 06 May 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

We could use a ballistic weapon around 2-4 tons, there is none in TT that could be used however. Alternatively let ballistic slots be able to hold special equipment, deployable mines for example.

OOOOOOOH mine boats, lol. Now I could see that being exploited on small maps.

[Sereglach]

Personally, I would love to see the mech rifles added to the game. The mech rifles, honestly, should function as the Autocannons we already have for the IS, as far as the single-slug mechanics go. The IS Autocannons, on the other hand, should be changed to fire half as many individual projectiles as the clan versions. Either that, OR change the Clan versions to fire 50% more shots per burst as they currently do and set the IS versions to fire what the Clan versions currently do.

This setup would actually give many IS light mechs that have ballistic hardpoints more options to bring into the battlefield. As it currently stands, IS light mechs that have said ballistics on their mechs currently only have one real option to bring . . . machine guns. It would be nice to have more options.

[Nightshade24]

Arrow would be good but it requires split crit slots. If this happens then people will cry why can't other weapons do this then suddenly we got an Atlas with 2 AC 20's or a kingcrab with possibly 4.... -shivers- Maybe a hunchback with a head mounted large pulse laser?

even if the community behaves.

It chugs a lot of ammo for the ton. It's made for bigger maps then what we have now. Last but not least I think it'll be UP, a single AMS will whipe it out... and atm we have sometimes multiple 2+ AMS mechs with lots of 1 AMS mechs... it'll be the weirdest tool to hunt lights that didn't bring AMS...

(Maybe add more ammo types to LRM's, SRM's, etc?)

Also when is ATM's release date for clans? those look cool...
Swarm missiles's, single shot SRM's, and torpedoes look good...

I doubt pgi will make a new map that only works for some mechs for torpedoes though... even though it's basicly uber slow missiles.

[MechWarrior679696]

Sereglach, on 23 November 2014 - 05:55 PM, said:

Personally, I would love to see the mech rifles added to the game. The mech rifles, honestly, should function as the Autocannons we already have for the IS, as far as the single-slug mechanics go. The IS Autocannons, on the other hand, should be changed to fire half as many individual projectiles as the clan versions. Either that, OR change the Clan versions to fire 50% more shots per burst as they currently do and set the IS versions to fire what the Clan versions currently do.

This setup would actually give many IS light mechs that have ballistic hardpoints more options to bring into the battlefield. As it currently stands, IS light mechs that have said ballistics on their mechs currently only have one real option to bring . . . machine guns. It would be nice to have more options.

The addition of Rifles gets my vote, although I think you'll find that IS autocannons do fire half the amount of projectiles for the same total damage. Also, I just find it ridiculous that even including loading, mounting and articulation mechanisms, weapons that would likely be classed as AC/2 autocannons in this game that weigh something like 25% are easy peasy to find. Heck, if you're just looking at the firing mechanism and barrel, something like the Mauser BK27 or a Gryazev-Shipunov equivalent weighs barely more than 100kgs.

Personally, what I'd like to see is another fast-firing crit-hunting weapon, like a multi-barrel AC ostensibly built originally for CIWS or urban triple-A duty. Something like the weapon mount on the soviet ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" (image), but scaled up and mounted to a mech.



Here's some herp derp fluff:

The MAC/L (Multiplex Autocannon-Light)
First fielded as a stopgap measure for AA and later anti-infantry warfare on fringe worlds typically with no access to more modern supplies of technology or ammunition, the MAC is an old concept dating back to the 20th century which was revitalized and saw action once again mainly through the 27th to the 29th. A relatively simple concept, the weapon consists of multiple linked loading mechanisms behind a set of fixed barrels of intermediary caliber in a class somewhere between MGs and AC/2s, typically the same or slightly heavier than that of Heavy Machine Guns, though generally of a longer necked nature and featuring a heavier explosive charge and longer barrel to grant the fired projectile a higher muzzle velocity and thus increased range and accuracy against air targets. Generally the ammunition fired from these weapons would also not be the standard HEAP or AP charges designated for anti-armor use, but shattering shrapnel charges or explosive-core rounds meant to rip apart the target piecemeal or destroy the control surfaces or exposed mechanical elements of vehicles. While generally outclassed by modern LB-X autocannons in the AA role in modern times, being somewhat inaccurate, ammunition-demanding and heat-intensive, MAC weapons nonetheless have a significant "scare factor" due to their astounding rate of fire and suppression capabilities, particularly against infantry. Their mechanical reliability and multiple firing mechanisms also grant them a certain resistance to damage and the jamming that occurs in modern UAC and RAC weapons.*

*Special: On a hit that would cause module destruction, there is a 50% chance that the weapon module continues funtioning, although at a 50% cooldown penalty.

Technical Specifications
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Damage: 0.12/shot (increased crit rate: 12% chance to do 2x damage, 8% chance to do 3x damage, 5% chance to do 4x damage)
Heat: 0.05/shot (GH penalty: 3 or more)
Cooldown: 0.06s
Range: 320m
Max Range: 960m
Slots: 1
Tons: 3
Speed: 1350
Ammo/ton: 1250
DPS: 2.00
Health: 10.00
Cost: 125.000 c-bills

Basically a BRRRRT! kind of alternative to the AC/2 which trades hugely on range and accuracy for the ability to carpet an area in a 1000 RPM hail of bullets. Lower DPS, only slightly less heat and fewer that can be mounted before ghost heat starts being noticeable, terrible grouping but increased dropoff due to high-speed ammo which shatters on impact and/or explodes like flak (different ammo types?) and significant cockpit shake and crit rate. Would love to cram 4 of these onto a JM6-S...

Edited by Mr Huge, 24 November 2014 - 12:41 PM.

[kosmos1214]

Mr Huge, on 24 November 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

The addition of Rifles gets my vote, although I think you'll find that IS autocannons do fire half the amount of projectiles for the same total damage. Also, I just find it ridiculous that even including loading, mounting and articulation mechanisms, weapons that would likely be classed as AC/2 autocannons in this game that weigh something like 25% are easy peasy to find. Heck, if you're just looking at the firing mechanism and barrel, something like the Mauser BK27 or a Gryazev-Shipunov equivalent weighs barely more than 100kgs.

Personally, what I'd like to see is another fast-firing crit-hunting weapon, like a multi-barrel AC ostensibly built originally for CIWS or urban triple-A duty. Something like the weapon mount on the soviet ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" (image), but scaled up and mounted to a mech.



Here's some herp derp fluff:

The MAC/L (Multiplex Autocannon-Light)
First fielded as a stopgap measure for AA and later anti-infantry warfare on fringe worlds typically with no access to more modern supplies of technology or ammunition, the MAC is an old concept dating back to the 20th century which was revitalized and saw action once again mainly through the 27th to the 29th. A relatively simple concept, the weapon consists of multiple linked loading mechanisms behind a set of fixed barrels of intermediary caliber in a class somewhere between MGs and AC/2s, typically the same or slightly heavier than that of Heavy Machine Guns, though generally of a longer necked nature and featuring a heavier explosive charge and longer barrel to grant the fired projectile a higher muzzle velocity and thus increased range and accuracy against air targets. Generally the ammunition fired from these weapons would also not be the standard HEAP or AP charges designated for anti-armor use, but shattering shrapnel charges or explosive-core rounds meant to rip apart the target piecemeal or destroy the control surfaces or exposed mechanical elements of vehicles. While generally outclassed by modern LB-X autocannons in the AA role in modern times, being somewhat inaccurate, ammunition-demanding and heat-intensive, MAC weapons nonetheless have a significant "scare factor" due to their astounding rate of fire and suppression capabilities, particularly against infantry. Their mechanical reliability and multiple firing mechanisms also grant them a certain resistance to damage and the jamming that occurs in modern UAC and RAC weapons.*

*Special: On a hit that would cause module destruction, there is a 50% chance that the weapon module continues funtioning, although at a 50% cooldown penalty.

Technical Specifications
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Damage: 0.12/shot (increased crit rate: 12% chance to do 2x damage, 8% chance to do 3x damage, 5% chance to do 4x damage)
Heat: 0.05/shot (GH penalty: 3 or more)
Cooldown: 0.06s
Range: 320m
Max Range: 960m
Slots: 1
Tons: 3
Speed: 1350
Ammo/ton: 1250
DPS: 2.00
Health: 10.00
Cost: 125.000 c-bills

Basically a BRRRRT! kind of alternative to the AC/2 which trades hugely on range and accuracy for the ability to carpet an area in a 1000 RPM hail of bullets. Lower DPS, only slightly less heat and fewer that can be mounted before ghost heat starts being noticeable, terrible grouping but increased dropoff due to high-speed ammo which shatters on impact and/or explodes like flak (different ammo types?) and significant cockpit shake and crit rate. Would love to cram 4 of these onto a JM6-S...

this would be soooooooooooo cool

[Strum Wealh]

Mr Huge, on 24 November 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

The addition of Rifles gets my vote, although I think you'll find that IS autocannons do fire half the amount of projectiles for the same total damage. Also, I just find it ridiculous that even including loading, mounting and articulation mechanisms, weapons that would likely be classed as AC/2 autocannons in this game that weigh something like 25% are easy peasy to find. Heck, if you're just looking at the firing mechanism and barrel, something like the Mauser BK27 or a Gryazev-Shipunov equivalent weighs barely more than 100kgs.

Personally, what I'd like to see is another fast-firing crit-hunting weapon, like a multi-barrel AC ostensibly built originally for CIWS or urban triple-A duty. Something like the weapon mount on the soviet ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" (image), but scaled up and mounted to a mech.



Here's some herp derp fluff:

The MAC/L (Multiplex Autocannon-Light)
First fielded as a stopgap measure for AA and later anti-infantry warfare on fringe worlds typically with no access to more modern supplies of technology or ammunition, the MAC is an old concept dating back to the 20th century which was revitalized and saw action once again mainly through the 27th to the 29th. A relatively simple concept, the weapon consists of multiple linked loading mechanisms behind a set of fixed barrels of intermediary caliber in a class somewhere between MGs and AC/2s, typically the same or slightly heavier than that of Heavy Machine Guns, though generally of a longer necked nature and featuring a heavier explosive charge and longer barrel to grant the fired projectile a higher muzzle velocity and thus increased range and accuracy against air targets. Generally the ammunition fired from these weapons would also not be the standard HEAP or AP charges designated for anti-armor use, but shattering shrapnel charges or explosive-core rounds meant to rip apart the target piecemeal or destroy the control surfaces or exposed mechanical elements of vehicles. While generally outclassed by modern LB-X autocannons in the AA role in modern times, being somewhat inaccurate, ammunition-demanding and heat-intensive, MAC weapons nonetheless have a significant "scare factor" due to their astounding rate of fire and suppression capabilities, particularly against infantry. Their mechanical reliability and multiple firing mechanisms also grant them a certain resistance to damage and the jamming that occurs in modern UAC and RAC weapons.*

*Special: On a hit that would cause module destruction, there is a 50% chance that the weapon module continues funtioning, although at a 50% cooldown penalty.

Technical Specifications
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Damage: 0.12/shot (increased crit rate: 12% chance to do 2x damage, 8% chance to do 3x damage, 5% chance to do 4x damage)
Heat: 0.05/shot (GH penalty: 3 or more)
Cooldown: 0.06s
Range: 320m
Max Range: 960m
Slots: 1
Tons: 3
Speed: 1350
Ammo/ton: 1250
DPS: 2.00
Health: 10.00
Cost: 125.000 c-bills

Basically a BRRRRT! kind of alternative to the AC/2 which trades hugely on range and accuracy for the ability to carpet an area in a 1000 RPM hail of bullets. Lower DPS, only slightly less heat and fewer that can be mounted before ghost heat starts being noticeable, terrible grouping but increased dropoff due to high-speed ammo which shatters on impact and/or explodes like flak (different ammo types?) and significant cockpit shake and crit rate. Would love to cram 4 of these onto a JM6-S...

Other than having AC/2-style maximum range, that's pretty much exactly what the Machine Gun Array was in BattleTech...

• "Ironically enough, while FedSuns weapons designers from the shattered NAIS developed the machine gun array system first, the successful theft of this technology by Taurian spies and frenzied efforts by Concordat producers to reverse-engineer it led to the first of these machine gun-linkage systems hitting the battlefields with the TDF, not the AFFS. Effectively enabling two to four machine guns of like size to operate in unison, the MG array (MGA) vastly improves the potential for accurate and effective placement of multiple machine gun fire in battle." - TechManual, pg. 228
  
• "On all non-ProtoMech units, the machine gun array may be used to link two, three or four machine guns of the same size class, but to do so, all of the linked MGs and the array module must be placed in the same location on the unit. ProtoMech-mounted machine gun arrays may link machine guns mounted anywhere on the ProtoMech." - TechManual, pg. 228
  
• "When an MGA hits a target, roll on the appropriate column of the Cluster Hits Table (an MGA 3 rolls on the 3 column, an MGA 4 on the 4 column and so on). The result is the number of hits that struck the target, with each hit’s damage equal to the Damage Value of the appropriate machine gun type, grouped (light, standard or heavy). Once the number of hits has been determined, roll once on the appropriate Hit Location Table and apply all hits to that location as separate damage groups (such damage may result in multiple critical hit rolls when damaging a target)." - Total Warfare, pg. 137

That is, the MGA was a combination of up to four individual MGs, all mounted in the same location & tied into a separate "array module" that synchronized the aiming and firing of the linked MGs.

As such, an IS MGA (limited to three MGs) using Standard MGs (2 damage per salvo) could be hitting single sections harder than a single AC/5 (up to 6 damage for the MGA, vs 5 damage for the AC), while a Clan MGA (allowing up to 4 MGs) using Standard MGs (still 2 damage per salvo) could be hitting almost as hard as an AC/10 (up to 8 damage for the MGA, vs 10 damage for the AC).

In terms of MWO, this would be the same effect as just group-firing MGs normally.

[Mad Dog Morgan]

PGI will absolutely need to get multiple ammunition types to work for the ATM launchers and LBX weapons to work properly, and we're supposed to have plasma cannons by 3069 (which are effectively heat-inflicting energy weapons that use ammunition), but there's also the Binary Laser and the Snub-nosed PPC. I don't think they'll create a new weapons system for usage in the game, but... yeah, there are options for things that should be in the game at the moment.

The Long Tom (artillery), Sniper Cannon (Direct Fire), and Thumper (artillery) are all available in 3012. Thunderbolt Missiles were used in Solaris matches, and I think they could potentially have a place in the game's universe as an autocannon alternative, albeit with a minimum range.

[MechWarrior679696]

Strum Wealh, on 26 November 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

Other than having AC/2-style maximum range, that's pretty much exactly what the Machine Gun Array was in BattleTech...

Yeah, I'd take an MG-array any day for e.g. my Firebrand's ballistic option if you could use it to pack in several machine guns into a single ballistic hardpoint for the penalty of extra tonnage and maybe extra space. But there's just die kleinste aber with that, namely the damn time parity again; MG-As don't get released until 3068. I could make Ultra AC/2s work, but a) I'd like them to fire 2 shots in a burst like the Clan ones do and they aren't supposed to be released for another 8 years! Am I the only one fed up with this timeline crap? Anyway, I just threw the extra range in there as to reflect the tonnage, accuracy and caliber and the nature of the thing as an AA weapon. If I wanted to be realistic about it I would say that I'd expect something like that to be able to effectively fight mech armor at well into the >1000m range as a pure suppression weapon. Like taking several russian 14.5s and cramming them together into a single rapid-fire weapon, except you've easily got room for a longer case and barrel. And those things carry something like twice the impact force of a .50 BMG, which are themselves used as anti-materiel ammunition. There's a reason the Shilka was so damn feared as an AA weapon in its day...

Vaskadar, on 26 November 2014 - 07:44 PM, said:

PGI will absolutely need to get multiple ammunition types to work for the ATM launchers and LBX weapons to work properly, and we're supposed to have plasma cannons by 3069 (which are effectively heat-inflicting energy weapons that use ammunition), but there's also the Binary Laser and the Snub-nosed PPC. I don't think they'll create a new weapons system for usage in the game, but... yeah, there are options for things that should be in the game at the moment.

The Long Tom (artillery), Sniper Cannon (Direct Fire), and Thumper (artillery) are all available in 3012. Thunderbolt Missiles were used in Solaris matches, and I think they could potentially have a place in the game's universe as an autocannon alternative, albeit with a minimum range.

They're damn heavy though, and PGI would likely make their reload a *****. I'd love to cram in a couple of artillery cannons or mech mortars into my FB so I can smack any LRM-boating dumbasses into hiding before I charge, but they're almost unnecessarily heavy and heat-producing, which would preclude me from building anything effective around them...

Edited by Mr Huge, 27 November 2014 - 11:13 AM.

[Krysic]

Seeing people talking about the current systems not working. Well that's going to happen when you try to fit a real time game into a system designed on a turn based model. You lose the option of several mitigators and either have to create new ones or get stuck in a whirlwind of balance issues.

They need to rethink the systems deigned for the weapons to create a standard scale set that allows for the implementation of multiple weapon types at different sizes. Truth is I think that trying to balance everything to fit a system designed for an alternate medium is whats wasting time and making the coders seem like they suck. I'm sure they're all very good at what they do, but you cant turn tabletop into real time, you need to design for real time borrowing the good bits from what others have already created. For instance, this engine has destructible terrain built into it, why not implement it? Then if you tighten up the collision we can jsut drop buildings on other people and stop asking for weapons. =p

They should redesign the entire weapon tree from scratch in a manner appropriate to the medium. No one gives a flying crap if the numbers crunch out the same as tabletop. (well some might but all they want form the game is math I guess). All the general player cares about is the FEEL of the mech and weapons effectiveness.

[Tarriss Halcyon]

I'm with all the votes for the Rifles as light-weight ballistics slot fillers. Yes, they are rare. BUT, I'm reasonably sure that there were hints given for the coming year about PVE content. You know, something that might involve SALVAGE. Such things could give players access to some oddities such as the Light, Medium and Heavy Rifles or the 'Mech Mortars, which would be interesting for mid/long range indirect combat missile launchers, in competition with LRMs.

I'm not sure where I stand on some of the others. Sniper Artillery Cannon is essentially a gigantic direct-fire cannon. Which does splash damage. Not sure if I would use it over a pinpoint Gauss Rifle unless the range on it was extreme. As it stands, a Gauss shot can practically cover the entire length of Forest Colony and still cause damage.

Binary Laser Cannon is also obscure. Large Lasers, fired as a pair, with less range and more heat? The only advantage I can see is hardpoint conservation.

[Commander A9]

Just as long as it's not the Ragnarok's full-sphere shield. XD

[AkoolPopTart]

Mongoose Trueborn, on 07 May 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

Simply put, a new weapon system would vastly increase the active player base.

I seriously doubt this...Getting a haircut doesn't make you popular with the ladies.

Weapons are not the issue, from what I've gathered from the forums, the real problem is PGI's inability to keep past promises regarding gameplay mechanics, content, and overall stubbornness about not appealing to the casual gamer. On that note, the game is probably one of the most playable games that I've had in a long time and its easy to learn if you use your head a bit.

If you want to appeal to the masses, PGI should to give new/current players the ability to actually customize the trial mechs by releasing a random selection of parts that changes weekly (or whenever the trial mechs rotate out). This would give noobies the chance to see what Battletech/Mechwarrior is about, building your very own Battlemech and using it to fight other people, and allow current players to try out new loudouts for free without having to shell out millions of C-bills for a weapon loadout that they later find out is completely useless. Also, decreasing the real money prices for Battlemechs themselves would also help out a lot since no player should have to pay $60 for a single mech.

Edited by AkoolPopTart, 17 March 2015 - 04:20 AM.

[Helaton]

• HMG (Heavy Machine Gun - 1T, 1T 1000 ammo), 50% more damage than regular MG, range is technically shorter than a regular MG but would just make it useless in this game. Might be better to make it extended of a MG (180~240). Slower rate of fire but more damage per round fired. (double damage, 50% slower firing speed).
  
• AIV (Arrow IV - 15T, 1T 5 ammo, 10 dmg direct, 10 aoe, 740m-840m) I know its changeable ammo, but let's start with it as an artillery piece while the 'multi-ammo/switchable ammo' content is figured out. This is a role extender as it creates an 'artillery' role better suited than dumb firing LRM's. Have to aim at the ground where you want it to hit.
  
• Sensor Mine (Usable/Disposable like UAV etc.), dropped by a mech (light scout) and when an enemy mech passes within proximity, triggers a radar signal of any mechs within 180m of the mine for 15s. With 3 light mechs in a match, you could safely watch certain pathways without having to maintain line of sight. Can also negate ECM. UAV gives better duration, but the mech has to stay there. Sensor mine gives shorter duration, remote triggered and can't be destroyed. So this can work with UAV's, but doesn't replace them.
  
• Proximity Mine (Usable/Disposable). 10 AOE damage (applied to legs only (10dmg each leg)) within 20 meters when triggered. Can be jump jetted over. Will detonate any other mines within the area when detonated. (Chain reaction yes, but can also encourage people to spread the mines out more.

Just some ideas. I'm not sure about the heavy weapons, but light versions sound attractive (light gauss, light ac etc.)

[Helaton]

Strum Wealh, on 26 November 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

That is, the MGA was a combination of up to four individual MGs, all mounted in the same location & tied into a separate "array module" that synchronized the aiming and firing of the linked MGs.
...
In terms of MWO, this would be the same effect as just group-firing MGs normally.

Actually when I read this, I took it as meaning a Machine Gun Array is equipped which gives between 2 to 4 machine gun only ballistic hardpoints.

If a mech (say a Kit Fox) has only 1 ballistic hardpoint in the right torso, they can load the array, then load up to 4 MG's into the array. Which could be popular on some builds with limited ballistics. Downside is, if the array is destroyed so is 4 MG's. (See it working similar to drag and drop of heatsinks onto an engine)

Or could be taken to insanity with a DW equipped with 24+ MG's for the ultimate steel rain/troll dakka? I'd do that at least once for sure.

[Sniper09121986]

I would say ATM and LBX ammo switch, but that involves some game engine magic, and they are already busy with MASC. So having played a round on Gargoyle and not even trying Ice Ferret (yet) I suggest heavy lasers, because these mechs (as well as the upcoming Executioner) are low on hardpoints as it is. Then we may get to Laser AMS (already available in Clan Wolf but researched by Feds in 3054). HAG's should be very easy to implement since they are essentially Ultra Gauss rifles.

[Ialdabaoth]

Arrow IV would require a bit of tweaking to work with the current 'mech design code - probably have to lower it to 15 tons/10 crits, and have it otherwise operate identically to a single big-*** LRM.

[kosmos1214]

Ialdabaoth, on 17 March 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

Arrow IV would require a bit of tweaking to work with the current 'mech design code - probably have to lower it to 15 tons/10 crits, and have it otherwise operate identically to a single big-*** LRM.

well what i would do is make arrow iv a 2 part weapon rather then it being 14crits make it 2 pieces 1 being launcher and 1 being fire control

[Generic Internetter]

Just give us an AC/1 at 4 tons, 0.4 cooldown, 150 rounds per ton of ammo.
That would be a fantastic door opened for light mechs.

Poll thread. Vote!...
http://mwomercs.com/...002-ac1-please/

[Dee Eight]

I don't want new stuff until they move the timeline forward. But I would like the stuff we have to be closer to how it was in the actual boardgame than how they've monkeyed it historically in the video games.

Double Heatsinks are twice as effective as single heatsinks, not 40% more efficient.

XL engines are half the weight of standard engines.

MGs do the same damage as an AC/2, but with very minimal range.

ER Large Lasers are supposed to shoot further than even ER PPCs.