85 replies to this topic

[Roland]

Mr 144, on 08 May 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

See, and that's what you're refusing to grasp. The DD build CAN just run up face-hug, take everything the AC/40 build can dish out (to a single location yet), spray all over the place, and STILL win that fight. Math doesn't lie. There's no fancy tactics, just face hug, aim for ST and spam. It will win that every single time and only requires 35% of the MG shots to land on location target...easy at face-hugging range.

Mr 144

Dude, the 6 MG Jager mech is gonna get ROLLED by the AC40 mech.

What your "math" isn't accounting for is that the mechs aren't gonna just stand there and stare at each other from 90m.

Unless the AC40 mech is piloted by a complete imbecile, he's gonna be firing a huge alpha into the MG mech, and critting out a panel, and then he's gonna TWIST AWAY from it.

That means that the MG's damage is gonna spray all over the entire mech. It's not gonna focus on a specific panel. It's not gonna kill the target.

Then, in 40 seconds, the AC40 mech is gonna twist back, dump another huge alpha onto the garbage MG build and rip out its torso, and then it's gonna twist away again.

Your assessment is missing this huge element of gameplay, which is that large alpha strikes are inherently superior to DOT in mechwarrior, because it's not good enough to simply hit the enemy mech.. you need to actually hit a specific LOCATION on the enemy mech. And that's why the MG build, even with improved damage, is inferior.

[Deathlike]

Mr 144, on 08 May 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

See, and that's what you're refusing to grasp. The DD build CAN just run up face-hug, take everything the AC/40 build can dish out (to a single location yet), spray all over the place, and STILL win that fight. Math doesn't lie. There's no fancy tactics, just face hug, aim for ST and spam. It will win that every single time and only requires 35% of the MG shots to land on location target...easy at face-hugging range.

Mr 144

This might sound silly, but are you seriously threatened by the current 6MG Jagermech or 4MG Spider? If the answer is no, then the future doubling of MG DPS isn't going to change that too much.

[MaddMaxx]

DrunkDrivin, on 07 May 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

If they did, the 6 MG spider would be an Atlas killer.

What Spider would that be exactly?

[Shumabot]

Ralgas, on 08 May 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

Consider though the mg mech saves-
15+ crit slots
No heat generated
Over 1/3 of the mechs weight

That makes the senario a whole new ball game

Except its used all of its weapon slots and the ac40 is likely already at max armor itself meaning you have dead tonnage that's not doing anything.

[Keifomofutu]

MaddMaxx, on 08 May 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

What Spider would that be exactly?

Dude? The Devastator ^TM

[MaddMaxx]

Psikez, on 07 May 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

Your ignorance is cool bro

Yours is cooler bros. Let's make a .5t weapon nearly as powerful as a 6t weapon and see how that works out. (Holy Smokes Batman)

[Keifomofutu]

MaddMaxx, on 08 May 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

Yours is cooler bros. Let's make a .5t weapon nearly as powerful as a 6t weapon and see how that works out. (Holy Smokes Batman)

Cause 1.2 dps at 120 meters with spread is totally the same thing as accurate 4 dps at 660+ meters with bonus cockpit shake on target?

[MaddMaxx]

Keifomofutu, on 08 May 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

Cause 1.2 dps at 120 meters with spread is totally the same thing as accurate 4 dps at 660+ meters with bonus cockpit shake on target?

Here is a 6MG build. Max Engine (86kph), Max Armor and 46K rounds of ammo. For those who want to go front line toe to toe, select another mech. But for those who wants slash and go tactics against already wounded foes, sort of like a Light mech does. Then a 7.2 dps, with no heat, great speed is nothing to sweat then right.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7f8c0a50b9c9e88

P.S. Good luck getting all those AC2 rounds on the same panel at 660m btw.

[Jonathan Paine]

For the posters that seem to believe that MGs are viable:
Load up a mech with only MGs. Play a few rounds. Post every score you get. Preferably with videos. Return to the thread humbled.

Edited by Jonathan Paine, 08 May 2013 - 08:33 AM.

[Keifomofutu]

Jonathan Paine, on 08 May 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

For the posters that seem to believe that MGs are viable:
Load up a mech with only MGs. Play a few rounds. Post every score you get. Preferably with videos. Return to the thread humbled.

Yes. Only triple the number you get after each match to simulate the theoretical 1.2 dps.

Machine gun damage numbers are just laughable right now. I'm not really worried what laughable x 3 is. In any case if it did turn out to be a little too much for the weight you could always reduce the amount of ammo per ton to make it more in line with other ballistics.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 08 May 2013 - 08:48 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Jonathan Paine, on 08 May 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

For the posters that seem to believe that MGs are viable:
Load up a mech with only MGs. Play a few rounds. Post every score you get. Preferably with videos. Return to the thread humbled.

Most are stating that even at .8 they are un-viable but think 1.2 would be OK?

If an AC20 has a 5.0 dps and one can only ever carry 2, you have to get to pretty close range to maximize that damage and they are poorly armored, slow and terrifying.

Well then, any Mech that carries 7.2 dps, has max armor, runs @86kph, carries a full 5 minutes of trigger down ammo on board, it doesn't seem to be all that shabby. Especially given the new increase in range settings.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 08 May 2013 - 08:51 AM.

[Roland]

MaddMaxx, on 08 May 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

Here is a 6MG build. Max Engine (86kph), Max Armor and 46K rounds of ammo. For those who want to go front line toe to toe, select another mech. But for those who wants slash and go tactics against already wounded foes, sort of like a Light mech does. Then a 7.2 dps, with no heat, great speed is nothing to sweat then right.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7f8c0a50b9c9e88

P.S. Good luck getting all those AC2 rounds on the same panel at 660m btw.

This mech design, even with a 1.2 DPS per gun, is total garbage. I will laugh at that mech every time I see it, and then kill it... likely due to its own ammo exploding.

Seriously, do you actually think that mech would be good?

MaddMaxx, on 08 May 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

Most are stating that even at .8 they are un-viable but think 1.2 would be OK?

If an AC20 has a 5.0 dps and one can only ever carry 2, you have to get to pretty close range to maximize that damage and they are poorly armored, slow and terrifying.

Well then, any Mech that carries 7.2 dps, has max armor, runs @86kph, carries a full 5 minutes of trigger down ammo on board, it doesn't seem to be all that shabby. Especially given the new increase in range settings.

Try to get this through your head... DPS doesn't mean anything in this game. The mistaken impression that it means something is what leads to so many terribad builds running around the field.

Your 7.2 DPS MG build is going to die to an AC40 mech, EVERY SINGLE TIME.

[Bishop Steiner]

Dudeman3k, on 07 May 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

yeah, dmage would be low, but that would also allow them to reduce the armor back to its original numbers, skill base alpha's and well timed shots (all of them over the 10 seconds) for more intense fights.

so if you want to do, say, the original 10dmg for the PPC in a 10 seond round, you would need to land all 3 shots within that round. In all, the dmg of the wepaon wouldnt be reduced at all, you just need the "skill" to push out the dmg.

it is a heavy change, and i dont expect it to happen. but had they done this method from the start, it would have been a very accurate interperitation of the "10 second rounds" of TT to FPS.

Sorry, can't gt behind this idea. I came to play walking tanks, not death by a thousand paper cuts. Might as well just allow mechs only to use AC/2 (no more than 2) SRM2, LRM 5 and Small lasers. # shots to represent a single shot is horrible, IMO, totally ruin the fluff and the feel. If I get you dead to rights and put dual AC/20 rounds through your windscreen, I earned that kill. I shouldn't have to RE_EARN it. (Bad enough it takes essentially that, or dual gauss + something else to actually do the job)

[Howdy Doody]

MaddMaxx, on 08 May 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

Here is a 6MG build. Max Engine (86kph), Max Armor and 46K rounds of ammo. For those who want to go front line toe to toe, select another mech. But for those who wants slash and go tactics against already wounded foes, sort of like a Light mech does. Then a 7.2 dps, with no heat, great speed is nothing to sweat then right.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7f8c0a50b9c9e88

P.S. Good luck getting all those AC2 rounds on the same panel at 660m btw.

46k MG rounds. Hell yea that will look like an exploding fireworks stand when it goes down....awesome!

I'm sure as hell going to try it. Why? Hell...why not?

Edited by Howdy Doody, 08 May 2013 - 09:28 AM.

[Keifomofutu]

Howdy Doody, on 08 May 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

46k MG rounds. Hell yea that will look like an exploding fireworks stand when it goes down....awesome!

I'm sure as hell going to try it. Why? Hell...why not?

Stackpole Salute o7

[Howdy Doody]

I'm new to the BT universe. Is there any weapon like the A-10's MG?

That's what should have been sticking out of Misery!

Edited by Howdy Doody, 08 May 2013 - 09:41 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Howdy Doody, on 08 May 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

I'm new to the BT universe. Is there any weapon like the A-10's MG?

That's what should have been sticking out of Misery!

Yes, actually an MG of Battle Tech is like an A-10 gun, except even bigger.



See all those things along the torso, that's 12 total "MG"'s twice the size of a Man. In Battle Tech "Fluff" MG's are called "Rotary MG's" or "20-30mm Gatling Guns"

[Phoenix Gray]

Denno, on 07 May 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

I will never get outraged about an anti-infantry weapon being weak against 19 tons or so of armor.

I am outraged at your lack of outrage. Your inadequate wrath is unbalancing the whole game. Buff your rage!

Edited by Phoenix Gray, 08 May 2013 - 11:07 AM.

[Phoenix Gray]

Roland, on 08 May 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

This mech design, even with a 1.2 DPS per gun, is total garbage. I will laugh at that mech every time I see it, and then kill it... likely due to its own ammo exploding.

Seriously, do you actually think that mech would be good?


Try to get this through your head... DPS doesn't mean anything in this game. The mistaken impression that it means something is what leads to so many terribad builds running around the field.

Your 7.2 DPS MG build is going to die to an AC40 mech, EVERY SINGLE TIME.

If it rams you you're going out with it. BUFF COLLISIONS!

[MaddMaxx]

Howdy Doody, on 08 May 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

46k MG rounds. Hell yea that will look like an exploding fireworks stand when it goes down....awesome!

I'm sure as hell going to try it. Why? Hell...why not?

Why is that any crazier than a A1 with 2300 rounds of LRM's?

Roland, on 08 May 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

This mech design, even with a 1.2 DPS per gun, is total garbage. I will laugh at that mech every time I see it, and then kill it... likely due to its own ammo exploding.

Seriously, do you actually think that mech would be good?

Try to get this through your head... DPS doesn't mean anything in this game. The mistaken impression that it means something is what leads to so many terribad builds running around the field.

Your 7.2 DPS MG build is going to die to an AC40 mech, EVERY SINGLE TIME.

That AC40 Mech will tire of chasing the MG Mech about with little success. Then when it engages another, the MG Mech may do it work. Same as the good Lights do. Why take an AC40 head on, regardless of what your driving, if you don't have to.