72 replies to this topic

[The Gunman]

This is the current state of over-heat management:
If the mech's internal heat is at 101%, and shutdown is overriden, the mech takes damage to the internals.
If a mech Alpha-strikes 6 PPC's and its heat spikes to over 150% it shuts down temporarily but it takes no damage to internals.

I don't think this makes sense. Surely exposing your mech's systems to extreme temperatures should always damage them: If you put tank in an oven things are going melt, ammunition will detonate, metal will warp, etc, it doesn't matter if the engine is running or not.

What do you think?

Edited by The Gunman, 10 May 2013 - 06:39 AM.

[Syllogy]

I think that the Devs are happy with the way heat works right now, and no plans are being made to change it.

Bryan Ekman, on 19 April 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

Phylum: Can the excess heat damage components inside the mech and reduce their capacity?
Ex: engine losing 10% power, 5% longer recharge times for weapons and so on.
A: It’s possible, however we do not have any immediate plans to support this.

Bryan Ekman, on 19 April 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

Prosperity Park: Will the Heat mechanism be changed in the future such that Overheating to greater than, lets say 150%, would result in inescapable, guaranteed Heat Damage regardless if your Mech is Powered Down?
A: We’re happy with the existing system, so I don’t see this being added anytime soon.

Edited by Syllogy, 10 May 2013 - 06:33 AM.

[DaZur]

[Suggestion] And a good one IMHO!..

"Repeated over-heating / Shutdown & Restart should damage your heat-sinks and reduce their efficiency in a linear fashion".

I.e... Match Start = 100% efficiency. With each repeated overheat shutdown, each heat sinks efficiency is reduced by 3% with a max potential reduction of 30%

Yes, I understand it compounds the issue for these high-heat alpha Mechs, but that's the point... It effectively forces a player to properly manage their shots / heat or choose a more heat-neutral set-up.

[Corvus Antaka]

Actually Syllogy I think that in the last Q&A Bryan said they where looking into adjusting the heat system slightly.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 10 May 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Actually Syllogy I think that in the last Q&A Bryan said they where looking into adjusting the heat system slightly.

Yeah I was going to go look it up, but Syllogy is the guy with the big ol' thread. So he can do it.

[MustrumRidcully]

Not my preferred approach, though it kinda makes sense. I don't think that it will be a relevant solution give how high heat capacity actually is in this game.

[Hellcat420]

absoutly not. the whole point of the automatic shutdown is to prevent damage to the mech. damage should come into play if you override teh shutdown. they need to add teh tt heat scale penalties that come into play before your mech even gets close to shutdown(such as movement penalties, torso twist speed penalties, etc.) for running high heat. the minor effects start at roughly 20% heat, potential for ammo explosion starts at 60%ish? i think.

Edited by Hellcat420, 10 May 2013 - 01:13 PM.

[ExtremeA79]

Hellcat420, on 10 May 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

absoutly not. the whole point of the automatic shutdown is to prevent damage to the mech. damage should come into play if you override teh shutdown. they need to add teh tt heat scale penalties that come into play before your mech even gets close to shutdown(such as movement penalties, torso twist speed penalties, etc.) for running high heat.

Shutdown occurs when the heat gets dangerously high enough (100% or over) that it STARTS damage to internals.
If a mech alpha strikes 6 ppc's and reaches 150% heat, even if the mech shuts down, there WILL still be damage to internals.

[Tennex]

if your heat is at 140% you should def take some daamge.

[Hellcat420]

Darren Tyler, on 10 May 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

Shutdown occurs when the heat gets dangerously high enough (100% or over) that it STARTS damage to internals.
If a mech alpha strikes 6 ppc's and reaches 150% heat, even if the mech shuts down, there WILL still be damage to internals.

no actually it doesnt. look at the heat table for battletech. the shutdowns should start at roughly 50% heat, then tries to shutdown every few more heatpoints you add until you hit max heat. yes you should get damaged for going over max heat, but they need to add the other shutdown thresholds that have been left out.

Edited by Hellcat420, 10 May 2013 - 01:23 PM.

[Badconduct]

It should only damage if you override.

If it shuts off and you hit 250% of your heat, you just have to wait that much longer. You end up taking more damage shut down anyway. No need for more damage.

[OneEyed Jack]

Hellcat420, on 10 May 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

no actually it doesnt. look at the heat table for battletech. the shutdowns should start at roughly 50% heat, then tries to shutdown every few more heatpoints you add until you hit max heat. yes you should get damaged for going over max heat, but they need to add the other shutdown thresholds that have been left out.

You don't understand the way they they re-interpreted the TT heat scale for a real-time game. In TT the heat scale is 0-30 but, in MWO, the heat gauge is your cooling +30, displayed as percentages. So, if they were to apply the heat effects directly, the percentage points they would be at would depend on the cooling efficiency of the mech.

Basically, if an effect were at 15 on the heat scale and you had 20 cooling (10 internal DHS), it would be on the gauge at 35/50, or 70%. If you had 16 DHS (28.4 cooling), it would be 43.4/58.4, or 74.3%.

I agree that it would benefit the game to add some more heat effects, but they can't really make the effects as harsh as TT because of the way the heat works. In TT, anything up to your cooling is never even applied to the heat scale. Thus, if you can cool 30, then you can create 30 heat each and every turn and still completely ignore the heat scale. In MWO, your heat would jump up by 30, then slowly dissipate. Imagine if it worked that in TT. You fire 3 PPCs, shut down and roll for ammo explosions. But don't worry, you'll be cooled off next turn!

Because the heat is always applied to the heat gauge, then slowly dissipates, the TT system doesn't work. Sure, you could argue that argue that one could just tightly manage heat, always staying below where the effects would start, but that would have similar effects to if they'd never increased firing rate, as far as energy weapons were concerned. Imagine a Death's Knell that could fire each laser once every 10 seconds before seeing rapidly increasing heat effects. Ballistics and missiles would be slightly better off, and Gauss would be the undisputed king of the battlefield.

The game length would have to be drastically increased, and all the mechs would be running 2-3 ballistic/missile weapons and all the heat sinks you could cram in, because having more weapons would be redundant, since you couldn't take shots any faster, anyway. The only builds that would be remotely viable would be the oft-mocked heat-neutral builds.

BORING! And I'm far, far from the only one to think so. I don't believe the game could survive that kind of grind every match. It wouldn't be exciting or engaging, and the only people that would play would be the serious, hard-core BT fans, and not even all of those.

TL;DR version: TT-style heat effects wouldn't work.

[Funky Bacon]

It always feels like my mech almost instantly core itself if I go just slightly over 100% in override. so why don't I explode if I alpha strike up over 150% even if my mech shuts down?

Also it would be nice to see just how far above you are in heat level.

[MasterErrant]

if the devs impose the correct style of heat system for BT. then there "need" to be software interlocs to stop firing at a cvertain heat level. you need to have to life your finger and tapagain to fire in dangerous heat conditions. it'ssmall but important.

[Krazy Kat]

I like this:

First shutdown. No penalty.
Second shutdown. One heat sink destroyed. 10% chance of internal damage.
Third shutdown. One heat sink destroyed. 20% chance of internal damage.
Et cetera.

[Appogee]

6 PPC Alpha should destroy the Mech.

Anything above 110% should destroy some internals... heat sinks, weapons, equipment.

[StandingCow]

I think they should increase the heat meter to show how much over 100% you are... like make the meter go to 150%. Anytime you go above.... oh I don't know 110% heat, you should take damage, or a chance to take damage.

There could be other effects for running hot too, like maybe a heat distortion to your vision...

[ExtremeA79]

I would say yes, but depends on % when you shut down.
If you shut down at 100-110%, then no damage.
But if you alpha and shutdown at 150%, definitely.

[MasterErrant]

Appogee, on 12 May 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

6 PPC Alpha should destroy the Mech.

Anything above 110% should destroy some internals... heat sinks, weapons, equipment.

even full roarclantech can't do a 6 ERPPC alpha.

and clan weapons are HOT! clan mechs scream for balances multirange builds...as do clan tactical doctrines.

[Sarsin]

There need to be some penalty for blowing the top of the heat scale away. If I overheat the bejesus out of my car, it doesn't stop cooking because I kill the engine.