72 replies to this topic

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

The "heat level critical" alarm goes off at 80%.

I don't think that heat should cause damage at 101% (although it does now, if you override the shut down feature), but if it did at about 120%, it might cause some people to rethink the 4/5/6 PPC stalker as a viable build.

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 19 May 2013 - 12:17 AM.

[aniviron]

Why would you ever not override if the penalty for overriding is damage to internals and the penalty for not overriding is damage to internals plus being shut down and taking more fire while stationary? Right now at least there is a tactical choice to be made.

Sarsin, on 13 May 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

There need to be some penalty for blowing the top of the heat scale away. If I overheat the bejesus out of my car, it doesn't stop cooking because I kill the engine.

Really? I put 15 tons of heatsinks on my car (clan doubles, and I drive a VW New Beetle, 2005) and it doesn't have trouble recovering from overtaxing the engine.

[Typhoon Storm 2142]

Rabid Dutchman, on 18 May 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

The Mech shutting down is how it prevents taking damage from overheating. That's why the feature is in the Mech in the first place. Having the auto-shutdown cause damage doesn't make sense

Amazing how people REALLY TRY to think as hard as they can. But the trying is all they are able to do.

It doesn't make sense to you, eh? So then everyone here arguing about the topic is just stupid, right? Because you're the only one who really knows the truth and we are all silly for wasting time, talking about nothing.

Did it ever occur to you, that it doesn't make sense to you, because you didn't get it? No? Yeah, I thought so. Alright then, go back to sleep. But do me a favor and stop posting. Forever.

Edited by Typhoon Storm 2142, 17 June 2013 - 02:58 AM.

[B0oN]

Overheating in Lore = death .
Why not in the game as well.
Oh wait...its a game and in games there are no "big boys" rules.

Overheating should s e v e r e l y damage one´s mech.

[MustrumRidcully]

Rabid Dutchman, on 18 May 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

The Mech shutting down is how it prevents taking damage from overheating. That's why the feature is in the Mech in the first place. Having the auto-shutdown cause damage doesn't make sense

Does it really need to work like that?

It's a safety feature. It could be designed to trigger after a critical heat has already been reached, and it is just there to stop it from getting even worse. If the mech keeps online, it will likely generate more, causing it to suffer irreperable, permanent damage or even the destruction of the mech. But that doesn't mean it can't also produce some damage before, the damage might just be acceptable during a firefight.

In the table top game, ammo explosions can occur at certain heat levels. If you reach them, the ammo explosion can be triggered, whether the mech is also shutdown or not.

[BlacKcuD]

This will be added in an upcoming patch. I think the threshold for damage is 150% heat or sth like that. I like it.

[Timuroslav]

I still don't see how something mechanical/organic can use BEYOND 100%+ of its Abilities without tearing destroying or exploding or stressing something. If something hits 100% it is capability, power, skill, and ability It using everything it can possible do. I don't see how a human can stand 150% of their own body temperature without dying, and I don't see how a steel I-beam can withstand 150% of it's heat containment without melting or bending a little.

100% means whole
It implies the LIMIT, the Maximum a machine and/or person can do

Hitting 150% is like Weight lifting your limit and then a Miracle occurs and midgets start helping you lift the Bar.
You can't put ALL of your Strength into something and then Suddenly have Additional Strength, because by definition it will not be All of your Strength in the First place. aka It's Not your 100% if you still have more strength to give.
It doesn't make sense that the Damage is not there from 101%

However small it might be the Damage should be there at 101% even if it's just thousandths of a point.

100% is the LIMIT the mech can take, NOT the AVERAGE
edited because of confusion* I'm implying that Heat can be pushed beyond 100%+ with the result being damage or penalties.

Edited by Timuroslav, 17 June 2013 - 05:04 PM.

[Petroshka]

Hellcat420, on 10 May 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

absoutly not. the whole point of the automatic shutdown is to prevent damage to the mech.

Forget what's realistic or not (gameplay>realism).

The problem is this: People use the safe-mode shutdown to play cheese builds.

For example: 6x PPC awesome/stalker, or more egregious, the poptart (yes they do still exist). The poptart and boater consciously overheat for an opportunity to one-shot enemies, sending their heat into the 200% range at times. They pause a while in shutdown and rinse repeat with no repercussions.

However, I don't think the heat system is properly managed as it stands, or should be solved with pure damage

- A hot mech should have a cone of fire.
- A hot mech should slow down it's running speed.
- A hot mech should have a slower rate of turning.
- A hot mech should get a slower rate of fire.

Conscious overheating in TT was a FUN tactic, in MWO it's only use is to support a massive alpha CT corer type build or fall-down-behind-wall-poptarter.

[Victor Morson]

This really needs a "depends on the heat" option.

I'm all for it if you push over 120% for sure. Maybe slightly lower.

But over, say, 106%? No, that'd be dumb.

Petroshka, on 17 June 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

However, I don't think the heat system is properly managed as it stands, or should be solved with pure damage

- A hot mech should have a cone of fire.
- A hot mech should slow down it's running speed.
- A hot mech should have a slower rate of turning.
- A hot mech should get a slower rate of fire.

Conscious overheating in TT was a FUN tactic, in MWO it's only use is to support a massive alpha CT corer type build or fall-down-behind-wall-poptarter.

Add "A hot mech should have slower torso twist" and I'm right on board with you man.

Timuroslav, on 17 June 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

100% is the LIMIT the mech can take, NOT the AVERAGE

Not the way it works in BattleTech nor here. The limit is for the safety shutdowns. Past that you run risks of ammo explosions.

I'd personally laugh if they added falling down /w fall damage 9 out of 10 times you shut down, though.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Timuroslav, on 17 June 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

I still don't see how something mechanical/organic can use BEYOND 100%+ of its Abilities without tearing destroying or exploding or stressing something. If something hits 100% it is capability, power, skill, and ability It using everything it can possible do. I don't see how a human can stand 150% of their own body temperature without dying, and I don't see how a steel I-beam can withstand 150% of it's heat containment without melting or bending a little.

100% means whole
It implies the LIMIT, the Maximum a machine and/or person can do

No. 100% is the maximum recommended power load (or Full Military Power, if I'm getting my terms right). There is a built-in safety margin that it can push into but is not recommended because it hasn't been designed to bear such levels of stress on an ongoing basis.

That doesn't mean you can't exceed 100%. It means that exceeding 100% is dangerous and can (and should) cause harm to the systems that you are over-stressing.

In fact, 100% is itself a dangerous place to be, as that's the maximum recommended setting, and you'll still see performance loss as you approach it. In BattleTech this is even more pronounced, with various negative outcomes possible as you climb the heat scale even before you reach the first (and very low) shut down point on the scale. MWO completely lacks any consequences for being anywhere but at or above 100%, and changing that fact would go a very long way toward fixing weapon balance.

[Timuroslav]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 17 June 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

No. 100% is the maximum recommended power load (or Full Military Power, if I'm getting my terms right). There is a built-in safety margin that it can push into but is not recommended because it hasn't been designed to bear such levels of stress on an ongoing basis.

That doesn't mean you can't exceed 100%. It means that exceeding 100% is dangerous and can (and should) cause harm to the systems that you are over-stressing.

I agree with you on heat levels going beyond 100% I also agree with you on the idea that there should be punishing effects for Cooking your Mech beyond the 100% mark.
What I meant was that 100% should be the Max point in which a mech Does Not get punished for.
As to what the proper way the negative effects should be, as far as I'm concerned it's up in the air.
If a person puts a 100% of their muscles to work and Even More because of Will power, their Muscles will tear and cause them to be sore the next day.

In short the Heat scale should go up to 200%
200% should instant be death

Edited by Timuroslav, 17 June 2013 - 06:12 PM.

[OneEyed Jack]

Timuroslav, on 17 June 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

I agree with you on heat levels going beyond 100% I also agree with you on the idea that there should be punishing effects for Cooking your Mech beyond the 100% mark.
What I meant was that 100% should be the Max point in which a mech Does Not get punished for.
As to what the proper way the negative effects should be, as far as I'm concerned it's up in the air.
If a person puts a 100% of their muscles to work and Even More because of Will power, their Muscles will tear and cause them to be sore the next day.

In short the Heat scale should go up to 200%
200% should instant death

Safety limits are never set to the exact maximum, they're set to a conservative limit which is known to be positively safe. Sure, if you could find the precise 100% that your body could stand, and tried to push past that, you might be injured. But it's more like if you asked your doctor for the max you should do. He's going to give you a limit he feels safe recommending. Or the posted speed limit on a road. It's not the fastest a car can go on that road, and certainly doesn't mean any car edging past it my a tiny fraction will automatically crash. It's just the limit of what the local DoT (or whatever your local government organization is) considers safe for everyone to travel on it.

[TheArcher]

TheArcher said:

I don't think boating is an issue. I think the heat system is broken. It seems like one can fire 6 PPCs while at 95% heat capacity without taking any damage. Or one can fire 1xAC/2 + 1xERLL + 1xUAC5 + 1xSRM6 + 1xPPC while at 95% capacity without taking any damage. Heat capacity is just that: anything above one's capacity should start melting components.

I would like to see the current heat safety (auto-shutdown) be replaced with a weapon inhibitor. Whenever I pull the trigger, the onboard computer should calculate which of the selected weapons I can safely fire. Those weapons (possibly even none) get fired. All the other weapons stay ready for a future salvo. My mech stays under 100% capacity and stays healthy. A pilot could override this, but will take damage the same way as what happens when using the current override.

Posted that in the Stop Boating thread earlier: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2459823