464 replies to this topic

[Dr B00t]

MavRCK, on 28 June 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

It's like saying Michael Schumacher has his opinion on a car... but it's not more valid than Joe Blow driving a Ford Pinto.

Listen to Joe Blow explain why his Pinto is better than a Mercedes. <3 <3 <3



I'll take Michael Schumacher's opinion anytime...

Moar flame pls!

thats some ego you have there...it defies all logic...you should get your own reality show

[Ningyo]

Very nice list, I have played exclusively PUG so I am not sure I would consider everything exactly the same way, but even then many mechs like the stalker are just clearly superior mechs. And ECM is still near godly in PUGs too.

I would like to make some suggestions since this is in a new player section.

First while many of these are great mechs, I would not say they are all great to Learn on. Some are, but others have a very narrow playstyle that while effective is limiting.

For instance while it does not make it high on your list I think the Jaggermech JM6-A is the best mech for a player to choose as their first mech.

First off you can pull many at least seriously dangerous builds:
2xAC/20 + 2xML
2x(ER)PPC + 4xSSRM
2xGauss
Gauss + 2x(ER)PPC
and have flexibility to try out other things
3x LRM 15 + 2ML
2xUAC/5 + 4xLRM5
2xUAC/5 + 4xSSRM + 2ML

So I find this to be one of the most flexible mechs in its loadout, it really can handle nearly anything.

Also its hitboxes while not great do teach you to torso twist and such properly to extend you life which is a good skill.

In addition to this it helps in gaining experience for one of your top tier mechs so if you move to that in the future you will already have basic skill on one of the mech variants.

Stalkers for instance are great, but as a beginner you are in a bracket with lots of semi experienced light pilots, and until you have all your elite skill, your rotation speed is so horrible lights will eat you.


Oh and watched the video, very well done, though apparently you don't use the testing grounds often (it always drops the same 8 mechs never a stalker, really unfortunate wish they made it 8 random mechs be much more useful) Very nice job overall.

[IraqiWalker]

MavRCK, on 28 June 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

It's like saying Michael Schumacher has his opinion on a car... but it's not more valid than Joe Blow driving a Ford Pinto.

Listen to Joe Blow explain why his Pinto is better than a Mercedes. <3 <3 <3



I'll take Michael Schumacher's opinion anytime...

Moar flame pls!

Way to completely NOT understand what I was saying. My point is that at the end of the day the better skilled pilot has the better chance of winning and impacting the match. Which is why Schumacher in a pinto can beat joe blow in an F-1 car. Schumacher can drive that pinto expertly. Joe Blow has never seen the inside of an F-1 car and would need an hour just to understand what each button on the steering wheel's keyboard does. the Pinto wins within that hour.

[MavRCK]

Dr B00t, on 28 June 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

thats some ego you have there...it defies all logic...you should get your own reality show

It's called confidence.

Actually, I was asked to consider being on a tv show... thanks... how did you know??!? (Seriously.. lol )

IraqiWalker, on 28 June 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

Way to completely NOT understand what I was saying. My point is that at the end of the day the better skilled pilot has the better chance of winning and impacting the match. Which is why Schumacher in a pinto can beat joe blow in an F-1 car. Schumacher can drive that pinto expertly. Joe Blow has never seen the inside of an F-1 car and would need an hour just to understand what each button on the steering wheel's keyboard does. the Pinto wins within that hour.

Ever watch Top Gear's thing where they put someone famous in a reasonably-priced car? They had Lewis Hamilton drive the crap out of a hyundai ... plus all these famous actors... it's really funny...

http://transmission....bly-priced-car/

Edited by MavRCK, 28 June 2013 - 09:57 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

MavRCK, on 28 June 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

It's called confidence.

Actually, I was asked to consider being on a tv show... thanks... how did you know??!? (Seriously.. lol )

Congrats on that

MavRCK, on 28 June 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

Ever watch Top Gear's thing where they put someone famous in a reasonably-priced car? They had Lewis Hamilton drive the crap out of a hyundai ... plus all these famous actors... it's really funny...

http://transmission....bly-priced-car/

I love Top Gear, it's my inspiration for my reply. Notice how those drivers vary in performance, and are always way below the Stigg? Also, they're all driving a regular car, something they are somewhat used to. Put them in an F-1 car, and they will require a lot of training, until they can use it. i.e. they need to develop the experience and skills to drive it right.

[Pando]

MAV's right.

If i look at MWO like racing...

Even if I take Tony Stewart and put him in a ford pinto.....
John Doe is going to blow his doors off in a sprint cup car in a sprint cup race.
So why would I ever put a top tier driver in a low tier car for a top tier race? Answer, I wouldn't.

I would put Tony Stewart in a sprint cup car for a sprint cup race.
Likewise, I wouldn't put myself in a low tier battlemech unless i'm griding efficiencies.
Some battlemechs ARE better than others.
This will always be the case.
This is a great post for new players who want to skip the PAIN of horrible battlemechs.


I would rather play in a stalker-misery...and dominate.
I would rather NOT ever play in an AWESOME again...thank god I mastered them right after open beta hit.


@ the guy who said CPLT-C1's are BOSS - I think they suck in comparison to what I could bring for a heavy. They're great if you want to have fun and change it up once in a while. I would never, EVER consider fielding one of these in a competitive match in the current meta.

I would never, EVER consider fielding one of these in a competitive match in the current meta. <---I can say this for MOST variants in the game.

[MavRCK]

IraqiWalker, on 28 June 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

I love Top Gear, it's my inspiration for my reply. Notice how those drivers vary in performance, and are always way below the Stigg?

Notice how the Stig drives the crap out of a lot of cars and they make a LIST OF CARS!?!

They even have a tier list:

I know which trolls bought the BMW X6!!!! hahaaha <3 <3 <3

Edited by MavRCK, 28 June 2013 - 10:37 PM.

[Thoman Coston]

IraqiWalker, on 28 June 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

My point is that at the end of the day the better skilled pilot has the better chance of winning and impacting the match. Which is why Schumacher in a pinto can beat joe blow in an F-1 car. <snip>

That is very correct. But that is not the point. Schumacher would not drive a VW golf vs Sebastian Vettel in an F-1 car. You have to see a situation where two equally skilled teams are playing each other, one piloting top tier mechs, the other in "fun" mechs. I can bet my money on the team in the prime mech , that they will most likely win.

Though I mostly PUG in MWO and have not played in any leagues in MWO due to lack of time, I used to play competitively in many leagues in MW2-MW4. I recalled that there have always been mech tiers in every incarnation of Mechwarrior game. Some mechs simply excel in specific roles over others. You would see similar mechs used for specific maps as no team would handicap itself by taking sub par mechs in such league drops.

The fun mechs were still used in open servers back then or PUGs in MWO, where people of various experience are mixed while they play to relax, practice, grind mechs/CB and not worry about league rankings or losing planets .

[IraqiWalker]

MavRCK, on 28 June 2013 - 10:29 PM, said:

Notice how the Stig drives the crap out of a lot of cars and they make a LIST OF CARS!?!

They even have a tier list:

Exactly, notice how that list is based more on testing than just one off tries. The amount of knowledge and effort put by these guys is staggering, to formulate a list like that for MW:O mechs would require at least a couple of years. That's with all variants being static, which is not the case in MW:O because there are many things getting tweaked ad re-tweaked rendering something that was powerful weak, then powerful again at some later point in time. Case and point being LRMs.

I don't disagree with some chasis being far superior to others, however that alone means diddly if the player can't use the chasis right.

For example someone who has been playing Cataphracts mainly will suck when piloting a Dragon. Completely different approaches to combat. A dragon in a straight up brawl is hadicapped in comparison to other heavies. However, put someone that used to main Commandos in a Dragon and the results will be staggeringly different.

End of the day the skill of the pilot is the most crucial factor. That's why the Stigg is the judge of these cars and not Conan O'Brian, because of his skill.

I understand that in this analogy you would be the Stigg, from your perspective.
I am saying you are not, for multiple reasons, including that you are discounting requirements pilots need to know for each chasis, the skill level required by the pilots, and you are not testing static products, these mechs are changing with every new tweak.

[IraqiWalker]

Taigen, on 28 June 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

That is very correct. But that is not the point. Schumacher would not drive a VW golf vs Sebastian Vettel in an F-1 car. You have to see a situation where two equally skilled teams are playing each other, one piloting top tier mechs, the other in "fun" mechs. I can bet my money on the team in the prime mech , that they will most likely win.

Though I mostly PUG in MWO and have not played in any leagues in MWO due to lack of time, I used to play competitively in many leagues in MW2-MW4. I recalled that there have always been mech tiers in every incarnation of Mechwarrior game. Some mechs simply excel in specific roles over others. You would see similar mechs used for specific maps as no team would handicap itself by taking sub par mechs in such league drops.

The fun mechs were still used in open servers back then or PUGs in MWO, where people of various experience are mixed while they play to relax, practice, grind mechs/CB and not worry about league rankings or losing planets .

I agree some mechs are definitely better than others.


However all of this rests on the pilots skills being equal, which is rarely the case. I got my *** handed to me in COM-2D by 3PPC 1 Gauss Misery mechs. The pilots were good, but then I ran into one the other day and I just wrecked it, again with my COM-2D, and the pilot started complaining about lights being OP. The difference there was that the pilot had a lower skill level than me. Those mechs in that list might work in some of the higher level competitive matches, but them being there doesn't mean they will win.

[MavRCK]

Somethings make a mech better at doing its job....

brawler with a std engine is better than a brawler with an xl engine

a sniper with JJ for maneuverability and getting to higher ground is usually better than a mech without jj

a mech with ecm is generally better than the same mech with the same layout without ecm

These aren't perfect rules, but they help give some guidance as to why some mechs are inherently a bit better than other chassis or mech types...

I hope I can help people learn the game quicker by presenting some semblance of order and structure to the variety of mechs in this game.

[Ningyo]

Hmm thought about it some more while reading more peoples comments, and I think what your list is really good for is peoples 3rd mech. By then they have some clue how to play, and what playstyles they prefer. Though it is hard to go too far wrong with most of these mechs.

I have noticed another mech pop-up a lot in suggestions for a first mech, and while I still prefer the JM6-A. It seems many recommend the hunchback for similar reasons. Its a fairly decent mech (not saying superb), and going through 3 different chassis you will be acquainted with almost all weapon types and many play styles.

[Rasako]

maybe this should be moved into its own subforum because a tier list could definitely give newer player's the wrong idea, plus must newer players wont be participating in 8vs8 competitive play right off the bat...

Edited by Rasako, 29 June 2013 - 07:28 AM.

[MavRCK]

Rasako, on 29 June 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

maybe this should be moved into its own subforum because a tier list could definitely give newer player's the wrong idea, plus must newer players wont be participating in 8vs8 competitive play right off the bat...

We dealt with this.. if you took the time to read the thread you'd know.

[MavRCK]

The average player in MWO plays like this:

[giganova]

And by "dealt with this" Mav means he called anyone who said this list was bad for new players a spammer, so yeah, way to deal with it there, Mr. Confident. Facts and statistics can be skewed to fit anyone's opinion, the RHOD stats are meaningless to new players. The only thing fueling this topic anymore is the controversy. So, by Mav's own flawed logic, I suggest new players check out some of the other "tier" lists, such as 80Bit's, because Mav's list is last years model and it's time to trade it in for a new one. (See Mav, I can do that too, it's not hard, and rather childish.)

As for the Top Gear car list? Way to use the completely wrong analogy, you're only helping to prove my point. My coworker is sitting right next to me, he's a huge Top Gear fan, he used to own a garage, I would trust his mechanical knowledge a lot more than Mav over here. Well, he disagrees with the list and has personally witnessed cars form the "not cool" tier outperform ones from the "cool" tier, so there you have it. Where exactly are your facts and numbers? I see no evidence of empirical numbers in the OP, Mav is dodging the issue.

Coincidentally and anecdotaly, I've been re-reading the BattleTech novels as I haven't done so since grade school, an interesting bit came up that is relevant to this topic.

"It is true, a DRG-1N."
"A Dragon? That's not your type of machine at all."
"The type seems very unimportant to me right now. I have a 'Mech again and I have been restored to honor under Lord Kurita. I cannot be ungrateful by disputing the model selected for me. The type of machine does not really matter, what really matters is the warrior who pilots the BattleMech, The warrior's spirit is the real strength, not the technology." - Minobu Tetsuhara and Jaime Wolf, BattleTech: Wolves on the Border

So even the lore disagrees with you Mav. You claim everyone is just "madcuzbad" I think it's you who is angered because of your distinct lack of Warrior Spirit. I guess all that jumpjet shake really scrambled some things up for you, eh?

Edited by giganova, 01 July 2013 - 08:18 AM.

[MavRCK]

I call you out giganova.

What have you accomplished? What team do you belong to has done anything worthwhile? And is your neighbour a car-instructor for bmw, porsche, viper and has driven most high-performance vehicles including full-race cars, rotax max race karts until about 2011?

I call you out giganova for being nothing more than a troll founder who can't win, can't contribute anything positive and should be removed from this community.



<3 <3 <3

PS: giganova, since you're into spamming this forum, thank you for the bumps - you should check out fan fiction and realize, everyone of my teammates and I would enjoy crushing loudmouths like you.

Edited by MavRCK, 01 July 2013 - 01:19 PM.

[Scout80913]

MavRCK, on 30 June 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

The average player in MWO plays like this:

[giganova]

Anytime, fun to watch this train-wreck in action. Also, please stop projecting, it makes you seem even more uncouth.

Edited by giganova, 02 July 2013 - 04:10 AM.

[MavRCK]

Still relevant and useful info: http://mwomercs.com/...gns/page__st__0