49 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

It's been discussed before. Let's discuss it again, as PGI is entertaining the idea.

From latest Ask the Devs:

"Draz McMillen: Any chance, down the line, of a hardcore mode where damage or mech destruction results in repairs or loss of the mech?
A: Maybe."

Edited by Alistair Winter, 18 May 2013 - 06:37 AM.

[PanzerMagier]

I don't think we're all on the same page. There are many subjective opinions on what "hardcore" mode should be.
Such as:

->a mode where Endosteel/DHS/ecm/etc is disabled.

->Stock mech, no custom modifications whatsoever

->harsh environment (halved armour, overheating = 95% of being dead)

-> a mode where you have no virtual hud, only hud figures displayed on cockpit monitors (with the possible exception of a crosshair)

To be honest I'd like to see all these mutators come into play!

Also, I think your idea of hardcore mode would definitely be relished by veterans who have nothing else to spend c-bills on. Albeit I'd rather not try it yet until we're sitting a fairly balanced environment.

Edited by PanzerMagier, 18 May 2013 - 09:06 AM.

[Keifomofutu]

Delete your hardcore account if your mech gets headshot.

[PanzerMagier]

Keifomofutu, on 18 May 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

Delete your hardcore account if your mech gets headshot.

AH HA HA HA HA.
I don't think We'll have separate accounts for that. A lobby system would make things a hell of a lot easier. As well as the new UI, it will allows to separate special mechs from others (hardcore/nonhardcore w/e).

[Monky]

You'd make a 'hardcore' pilot and enter into games, it'd be tied to your account and once he's dead he's dead. You'd have to deal with greifing/feeding somehow though (newbies/trolls intentionally killing themselves/teammates and planned drops where one side 'stands down' and is demolished for easy XP).

Entirely unrealistic until the game becomes more stable however - lost hardcore characters in games due to a crash/disconnect/etc tend to cause perma-rage-quits

Edited by Monky, 18 May 2013 - 10:38 AM.

[PanzerMagier]

Monky, on 18 May 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

You'd make a 'hardcore' pilot and enter into games, it'd be tied to your account and once he's dead he's dead. You'd have to deal with greifing/feeding somehow though (newbies/trolls intentionally killing themselves/teammates and planned drops where one side 'stands down' and is demolished for easy XP).

Entirely unrealistic until the game becomes more stable however - lost hardcore characters in games due to a crash/disconnect/etc tend to cause perma-rage-quits

I really doubt we'll have "hardcore" pilots. Pgi would lose too much money on people complaining "I bought stuff for this account and now the pilot is dead" In fact I doubt anyone is silly enough to play hardcore where your account is at stake.

AT MOST, you'll lose your mech and all the exp for that mech in hardcore mode. I think an easy way to implement this is for small C-BILL or (mc) fee you can convert mechs from hardcore to non-hardcore and vica versa. However if a mech is destroyed in HC it will be gone forever. You can also decide whether a mech should be HC or nonHC when buying it!

Oh another good idea! When using hero mechs in HC. They will never be completely destroyed. Only -out of commision- for which you will have to pay a large Cbill or small (mc) fee to "restore" them. I like this idea more and more. Maybe if I add enough (mc) ideas, PGI will take a look at it XD

[Alistair Winter]

PanzerMagier, on 18 May 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

I don't think we're all on the same page. There are many subjective opinions on what "hardcore" mode should be.
Such as:
->a mode where Endosteel/DHS/ecm/etc is disabled.

I'd love that. But that's more along the lines of the 3025 concept, right?

PanzerMagier, on 18 May 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

->Stock mech, no custom modifications whatsoever

I'd love that too.

PanzerMagier, on 18 May 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

->harsh environment (halved armour, overheating = 95% of being dead)

Would be interesting, but I'd rather just see less armour, combined with more balanced builds, similar to stock builds. So even though there would be less armour, you wouldn't need to worry about getting one-shotted by 6 PPC stalkers.

PanzerMagier, on 18 May 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

-> a mode where you have no virtual hud, only hud figures displayed on cockpit monitors (with the possible exception of a crosshair)

I'd love that, especially with Occulus Rift. However, I thought the Neurohelmet was supposed to provide a hud.

The whole Battletech concept of piloting seems extraordinarily unrealistic anyway. You see artwork of pilots only using a single joystick to make the mech move like an extension of their own body.

PanzerMagier, on 18 May 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

Also, I think your idea of hardcore mode would definitely be relished by veterans who have nothing else to spend c-bills on. Albeit I'd rather not try it yet until we're sitting a fairly balanced environment.

Well, it would be more similar to a lot of FPS games where you start out with the cheapest, suckiest weapons and equipment each time you log on. After each match, you get more money to buy better equipment. You lose it when you die. So it's a very fast race to the top, although it's easy to drop back to square 1 (i.e. dying).

I wasn't thinking along the lines of Diablo 3, where you spend 2 months building a Hardcore character and then get killed by an exploding cow.

Monky, on 18 May 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

You'd make a 'hardcore' pilot and enter into games, it'd be tied to your account and once he's dead he's dead. You'd have to deal with greifing/feeding somehow though (newbies/trolls intentionally killing themselves/teammates and planned drops where one side 'stands down' and is demolished for easy XP).
Entirely unrealistic until the game becomes more stable however - lost hardcore characters in games due to a crash/disconnect/etc tend to cause perma-rage-quits

Well, in a game like Diablo, you have several characters tied to your account. The same would be necessary here, right?
Getting killed by trolling teammates might be a problem, but I don't see why it would happen so much more than it does now.
I guess the idea would have to be that the Hardcore pilot tied to your account has a separate economy. So losing a mech in Hardcore mode doesn't mean you've actually lost it all together.
You wouldn't actually lose that Hero Atlas you bought for 35 bucks. But your Hardcore pilot would lose the ability to use it, untill you start a new Hardcore pilot and earn enough money for him to buy one in a separate Hardcore economy.

[Alistair Winter]

There are so many ways to go about this.

How far you want to take it depends on whether you want to have an account with a separate Hardcore pilot, separate XP and separate economy. OR just make it an alternative for normal play, just like Dropship mode, you would have Hardcore mode, but without the extreme risks and extreme rewards (e.g. no risk of losing mechs, no hope of salvaging a Hero mech)

[jakucha]

I want to go full on for hardcore mode. Try to make it as sim-like as possible. Everything costs money, if it's damaged beyond repair then it's gone, including your mech. Ammo costs money, repairing costs money, etc. but much bigger rewards.

This also means that any organization you're a part of can pay for whatever they want to re-outfit you. This makes lonewolves much more rare, just as it is in lore.

[matux]

Can we call it realistic mode and the current arcade mode? give arcade 3PV and all the COD ****, because i would play this new mode exclusivity, with community warfare in it would make it very very interesting

[Halconnen]

hmmm...Bacon...

My Mech also needs a beer cannon.

[peve]

I would like to see mechs and pilots destroyed. But it would require a way to retreat from the battle.

Overall, one of the biggest problems while playing on public server is that there are no consequences to your actions. You can just die repeatedly without a penalty. It is not exciting at all. People just rush at the enemy and die in the first 2-3 minutes.

I love to wander off solo in my Raven and Dragon, but I always break off from combat, if I don't see a good chance (>50%) of winning the duel and try something else.

If I am about to get cored in my Atlas, I try to retreat from the front line to back and support the front line from there.

That's how a game should be played. Most people just get tunnel vision. Really penaltizing dying and introducing retreat could helpmthem learn.

I would like to see mechs and pilots destroyed. But it would require a way to retreat from the battle.

Overall, one of the biggest problems while playing on public server is that there are no consequences to your actions. You can just die repeatedly without a penalty. It is not exciting at all. People just rush at the enemy and die in the first 2-3 minutes.

I love to wander off solo in my Raven and Dragon, but I always break off from combat, if I don't see a good chance (>50%) of winning the duel and try something else.

If I am about to get cored in my Atlas, I try to retreat from the front line to back and support the front line from there.

That's how a game should be played. Most people just get tunnel vision. Really penaltizing dying and introducing retreat could helpmthem learn.

[Alistair Winter]

Neverfar, on 19 May 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

What is "hardcore" about a "bacon cockpit item"?
Are you saying there are tens of millions of people who say "meow" to each other and pound memes repetitively into the ground that won't shut up about bacon and I was completely unaware they were "hardcore"?
I'm happier than ever being accused of being casual now.

Yeah, kids these days with their memes and their rock culture. It's terrible. Terrible, I say.

peve, on 19 May 2013 - 03:05 AM, said:

I would like to see mechs and pilots destroyed. But it would require a way to retreat from the battle.
Overall, one of the biggest problems while playing on public server is that there are no consequences to your actions. You can just die repeatedly without a penalty. It is not exciting at all. People just rush at the enemy and die in the first 2-3 minutes.
I love to wander off solo in my Raven and Dragon, but I always break off from combat, if I don't see a good chance (>50%) of winning the duel and try something else.
If I am about to get cored in my Atlas, I try to retreat from the front line to back and support the front line from there.

If the score is 0-7 kills, I will almost always retreat, unless I see a couple of easy kills. And then I hide and power down. A lot of people don't like this, because they feel I'm wasting their time. I tend to feel that I have a right to play that way, just like they have a right to spread out and commit collective suicide after doing 0-50 damage each.

Trying to survive when you're being chased by 8 mechs is often quite fun, kind of like a realistic military scenario, as opposed to the sportlike 100% symmetrical game modes. And having an escape route, as you say, would at least bring some sort of purpose to the games where the rest of your team just threw their lives away and disconnected in a grind to earn c-bills. Of course, there would need to be some sort of mechanism to prevent abuse, like only allowing escape if x amount of mechs are dead or disconnected, and only after y amount of time.

[Screech]

Be able to bet MC on the match. PGI takes the vig. But honestly how many people would play hardcore?

[Henry Avery]

Alistair Winter, on 18 May 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

It's been discussed before. Let's discuss it again, as PGI is entertaining the idea.

But all you suggestions are part of any normal battletech game??

Hardcore should be, only stocks, no EW, etc.

Bring the ship to port!

[Bagheera]

We already have a hardcore mode, but you can't self-select it. The game client decides at random when you are going to play "hardcore mode." There are a few variations of the mode, but you'll know it when you have NoMap, NoHUD, or NoIFF - or all three for the true hardcore experience.

[Nikijih]

Quote

The whole Battletech concept of piloting seems extraordinarily unrealistic anyway. You see artwork of pilots only using a single joystick to make the mech move like an extension of their own body.

Actually, thats what the NEURO in Neurohelmet is for. It connects the mech to your brain waves, and its them that are controlling the Gyros (mostly subconciously), essentially being responsible for all the micro-management of movements while the pilot only indicates the direction through joystick inputs. Even that can be cirvumvented with proper equipment (Justin Xiang Allard's Yen-Lo-Wang was piloted partially through a neural interface since the pilot has no left arm). In essence, the mech IS an extention of your body.

Edited by Nikijih, 19 May 2013 - 11:40 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

Nikijih, on 19 May 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Actually, thats what the NEURO in Neurohelmet is for. It connects the mech to your brain waves, and its them that are controlling the Gyros (mostly subconciously), essentially being responsible for all the micro-management of movements while the pilot only indicates the direction through joystick inputs. Even that can be cirvumvented with proper equipment (Justin Xiang Allard's Yen-Lo-Wang was piloted partially through a neural interface since the pilot has no left arm). In essence, the mech IS an extention of your body.

Are you trying to argue that this makes sense? I already know about the neurohelmet. But being able to control a huge battlemech as if it were an extension of your own body, and then needing a 1980's style joystick to indicate if you want to go forward or backward... that's the most ridiculous concept ever devised in sci-fi.

It's kind of like if Neo had to shout "Ctrl + Alt + Delete" to get out of the Matrix.

[MEGABOT 5]

I would love a hardcore mode.

Please PGI, please!!!

[Vassago Rain]

No one would play it, just like 8 manz.