105 replies to this topic

[Jonathan Paine]

Accusations of communism aside, the whole point is to reach a 1.0 win/loss ratio. For a while you might be higher or lower, but sooner or later you should be dropping against players your own level. Not communism, more like a system that eventually turns every game into your own superbowl. I, for one, prefer to watch a superbowl with two competitive teams where you don't know before the game who will win.

Of course, most MWO players are worried about having a fair fight - which explains a lot of forum crying.

P.S.
The current matchmaker is the least well programmed part of MWO. Expect suckage until they make it their #1 priority.

Edited by Jonathan Paine, 19 May 2013 - 07:31 PM.

[TruePoindexter]

Blackadder, on 19 May 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

what you need to do is look at your play. record some matches and look at what you do after the match. it would really be easier if MWO had this feature built in. that said though, i make plenty of mistakes every game, usually cause i get lazy. even with solo play you can always improve.

This can't be stressed enough. Don't fall into the trap that it's the game or your team making you lose. At some level you were responsible for the loss just by being there. The ability to admit that maybe you made a mistake is part of becoming a better player.

[ICEFANG13]

Yeah right, I say if you get one kill before you die, or your actions are directly related to winning, you did your job. You can't be blaming yourself for every loss because you didn't kill the entire team. 1 kill, 1 KDR, that's just fine. Its not like he's a .01 KDR player or anything.

[Sephlock]

sharkbait689, on 18 May 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Okay, im going to try to post this without seeming too salty. I just played 9 games and lost 8 of them. A few weeks ago i went on a 20 game losing streak. Neither of those are anomalies, I lose far more than I win. Now before people say its me (even if i were terrible I would think the win ratio would be better than 10%) I almost always pull my weight in matches (i.e. get at least one kill or a few assists at least). However, the vast majority of the time my team gets outplayed. Its frankly getting very irritating. Its not fun to play when you know youre just going to keep losing over and over. A win/loss ratio for a game, for all players, should be 50/50 or thereabouts.

[TruePoindexter]

ICEFANG13, on 19 May 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

Yeah right, I say if you get one kill before you die, or your actions are directly related to winning, you did your job. You can't be blaming yourself for every loss because you didn't kill the entire team. 1 kill, 1 KDR, that's just fine. Its not like he's a .01 KDR player or anything.

No it's not like you can carry a full team but often our individual actions have more expansive consequences than are immediately apparent. Only after rewatching your games later when you're not caught up in the moment of the experience can you observe your own missteps. In many cases the game was lost anyway but your own performance was definitely a part of the outcome.

[Hotthedd]

Jonathan Paine, on 19 May 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

Accusations of communism aside, the whole point is to reach a 1.0 win/loss ratio. For a while you might be higher or lower, but sooner or later you should be dropping against players your own level. Not communism, more like a system that eventually turns every game into your own superbowl. I, for one, prefer to watch a superbowl with two competitive teams where you don't know before the game who will win.

Of course, most MWO players are worried about having a fair fight - which explains a lot of forum crying.
The point of the GAME may be to get as many players as close to a 1:1 W/L ratio as possible, but the PLAYER'S goal is to win every single match. A player should not care at all that other people do not have a good W/L ratio unless they are teammates in a particular match.

I would prefer to watch a Superbowl with 2 evenly matched teams, but I would prefer to PLAY in a Superbowl where MY team is clearly better.

The current Matchmaker is terribad. I think tonnage and class sizes have been scrapped completely in favor of Elo rating only. It needs to take all 3 factors into account, AND have a solo-only queue.

P.S.
The current matchmaker is the least well programmed part of MWO. Expect suckage until they make it their #1 priority.

[Blackadder]

ICEFANG13, on 19 May 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

Yeah right, I say if you get one kill before you die, or your actions are directly related to winning, you did your job. You can't be blaming yourself for every loss because you didn't kill the entire team. 1 kill, 1 KDR, that's just fine. Its not like he's a .01 KDR player or anything.

getting a kill is about the worst way to try to measure how well you played. The only way getting 1 kill means you have done anything at all is when its a 1v1 situation if your in a light mech or off on your own, and honestly even then depending on the situation it could be pointless.

[DaZur]

Simple OP... "Start winning".

You received 2-dozen different explanations and the ever present trolling and you're welcome to take from it what you may... or not.

The reality is, while team suckage is a contributing factor, the majority of your losses falls squarely on your shoulders.

Ya see...I've been there, had my 20+ skid got the tshirt and I've since recovered, only to begin sliding again... It's the nature of the Elo and falling into a rut.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results... My advice? "Change it up".

Try different tactics, try different configurations, don't mindlessly trudge to the same place on the map and make the same mistakes over and over...

The worst mistake you can make however is to fall into the trap where you listen to community members explain to you how broken the Elo is and how porked various aspect of the game are.. and how no matter what you do you'll never succeed.

[ICEFANG13]

Blackadder, on 19 May 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

getting a kill is about the worst way to try to measure how well you played. The only way getting 1 kill means you have done anything at all is when its a 1v1 situation if your in a light mech or off on your own, and honestly even then depending on the situation it could be pointless.

So I die, and I killed someone, and then its 7v7

You die, and don't kill someone, and then its 7v8

See why I use the 1 kill as good rule?

[Major Derps]

DaZur, on 19 May 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

The worst mistake you can make however is to fall into the trap where you listen to community members explain to you how broken the Elo is and how porked various aspect of the game are.. and how no matter what you do you'll never succeed.

Whether you see ELO as 'broken' or not, if the current matchmaker is in effect on launch, these posts will be the common consensus amongst new players, but being a F2P, they won't hit the forums, they will just leave. People want to work their way up in a competitive environment; not to start in the middle and be expected to crash and burn repeatedly, until they reach their appropriate/enjoyable plateau. You can't expect to hold on to your player base like that; not in a F2P. A F2P needs a big player base, and those trying out a MW title for the first time, aren't going to stick around long enough to reach their plateau, where they will enjoy the game.
I'm not happy with ELO, but that's me. If it is to be kept, then so be it; but the least they can do is drop the entry ranking to 0.

[Xie Belvoule]

ICEFANG13, on 19 May 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

So I die, and I killed someone, and then its 7v7

You die, and don't kill someone, and then its 7v8

See why I use the 1 kill as good rule?

Killing one enemy and then dieing is a good way to make sure your team loses. To win you have to be able to kill 3-5 enemies by yourself.

[silentD11]

Xie Belvoule, on 19 May 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

Killing one enemy and then dieing is a good way to make sure your team loses. To win you have to be able to kill 3-5 enemies by yourself.

This is usually not a good sign, it means your team was horribly unballanced. If I want to punt up my KDR I'm going to PUG, so much easier. Because in a premade I'm effectively competing with my own guys for kills. So racking up 4+, I should probably pug.

[TheCaptainJZ]

sharkbait689, on 18 May 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Okay, im going to try to post this without seeming too salty. I just played 9 games and lost 8 of them. A few weeks ago i went on a 20 game losing streak. Neither of those are anomalies, I lose far more than I win. Now before people say its me (even if i were terrible I would think the win ratio would be better than 10%) I almost always pull my weight in matches (i.e. get at least one kill or a few assists at least). However, the vast majority of the time my team gets outplayed. Its frankly getting very irritating. Its not fun to play when you know youre just going to keep losing over and over. A win/loss ratio for a game, for all players, should be 50/50 or thereabouts.

So, my suggestion is, why dont they implement some sort of experience indicator, like how many games/kills/deaths a player has, and assign players accordingly so both teams are equally-ish matched.

I say this because the way it is now, i really dont want to continue playing the game. Ive poured alot of hours into this game, and im a huge MW fan, but losing constantly is just too frustrating to be fun.

Something I think is important to note that I didn't see anyone say is that if you are using different mechs in different weight classes, then your ELO score is kept separate for EACH weight class. This could explain why you are getting a losing streak no matter what mech you take.
One solution is to take a break and play later in the day or another day when the players on also changes. Time zones make a difference.

Edit: I do hope you are having fun knowing you are getting kills. I feel for the guy that constantly loses and doesn't get any kills.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 19 May 2013 - 10:48 PM.

[Zerberus]

Jonathan Paine, on 19 May 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

Accusations of communism aside, the whole point is to reach a 1.0 win/loss ratio. For a while you might be higher or lower, but sooner or later you should be dropping against players your own level. Not communism, more like a system that eventually turns every game into your own superbowl. I, for one, prefer to watch a superbowl with two competitive teams where you don't know before the game who will win.

Yep. Elo can never work "straight out of the box", it takes time top adjust... bottom line, the more you play, the larger the sample size to determine your Elo, and teh more likely you are to have a balanced match, exactly lthe same as in just about every other game that used an Elo system.

Quote

Of course, most MWO players are worried about having a fair fight - which explains a lot of forum crying.

On the flipside, MANY of the past complaints about matchmaking have been from people complaining that theif W/l ratio of 2:1 or K/D ratio of 4/1 are going down. Apparently "fair" to many people means "I have the advantage of playing against people that are worse than me to make winning easier".

Not saying that`s the case here, just a general observation of the community whines since Elo was introduced

[sharkbait689]

For some reason when I used the trial Dragon a few weeks ago i wrecked the shop, and i suppose that bumped up my ELO, because now, when i use the Jag, i get effed in the A. With assault mechs im more or less consistent. Considering how useless the ELO feature seems to be, it would almost be better if matchups were completely random, no pugs or anything. If not that, then the old way of simply going by tonnage would at least make the teams PHYSICALLY even. By the way, i go by K/D because thats basically all i do for my team. Thats the way ive always played MW, all the way back to 2. Brawling, fire support, etc. I stick with my team, of course, but direct combat is what i do.

Anyway, point being, it doesnt seem fair that people who play in a group are almost guaranteed to win. If theyre going to have groups, pit them up against other groups, because by the time you join a group youre probably pretty damn good at the game already.

[DaZur]

Mokey Mot, on 19 May 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

Whether you see ELO as 'broken' or not, if the current matchmaker is in effect on launch, these posts will be the common consensus amongst new players, but being a F2P, they won't hit the forums, they will just leave. People want to work their way up in a competitive environment; not to start in the middle and be expected to crash and burn repeatedly.

Understood and agree to a point. That said, the down-side to the "Start at the bottom and climb your way to the top" premise creates an even more unbalanced outcome. A half-way decent player would mount a steady and otherwise pedantic climb to a erroneous and bloated Elo ranking as a result of playing sub-par opponents... In short order, they will find themselves paired with players who out-match them and they would suffer even harsher loss streaks as they peak and valley with the Elo.

While not perfect, at least the current Elo keeps a player in the ballpark with out convincing them they are Babe Ruth.

And my point still stands... Blaming the game for losing before doing a little self-analysis and trying to figure out "why" is far more damaging to a players progress than the deficits in the game mechanics.

Look at it this way... "IF" it was as simple as the Elo and game mechanics being broken, everyone would struggle to succeed. The reality is many, many people have consistent success in spite of the MW:O's deficits.

Edited by DaZur, 20 May 2013 - 05:17 AM.

[mack sabbath]

A good rule of thumb is take the weight of youir mech.

Win or lose, if you do at least as much damage to the enemies before you die or the match ends, as your mech weighs, you broke even. More damage than that, you did your job to some degree.

I aim for 2-3X damage: weight . My Atlas weighs 100 tons.

If I do 200-300 damage in a match, then even if we lose, I feel like I "did my job," assuming during the match, I put myself in areas where the team needed me, and didn't do anything overtly stupid. Ideally, I try for more damage than that now that I'm experienced at it.

Start with these "victory conditions," and the rest will follow...or so they tell me!

Edited by Die Primate Die, 20 May 2013 - 05:19 AM.

[Dracol]

sharkbait689, on 20 May 2013 - 04:50 AM, said:

... By the way, i go by K/D because thats basically all i do for my team. Thats the way ive always played MW, all the way back to 2. Brawling, fire support, etc. I stick with my team, of course, but direct combat is what i do.

IMHO, it's this type of mentality that hurts pugs more often then not.

In order to maintain my 63% win rate, I play to win... not to do the most damage or get the most kills or have the best K/D ratio.

If our base is being capped and we need time to out cap: I'm there on our base, taking damage, buying us time, and dying.
Our main force is about to make a hard push? I'll run my med. through the enemy lines first so that they turn.... leaving their backs exposed to the oncoming onslaught.

My point is, unless you have at least a few players on your team that is willing to forgo getting massive damage in order to do what is necessary to win, the other team will get the win if they have a few on their side. The only way to guarantee having one on your side is to be the one.

Edited by Dracol, 20 May 2013 - 05:34 AM.

[sharkbait689]

Die Primate Die, on 20 May 2013 - 05:18 AM, said:

A good rule of thumb is take the weight of youir mech.

Win or lose, if you do at least as much damage to the enemies before you die or the match ends, as your mech weighs, you broke even. More damage than that, you did your job to some degree.

I aim for 2-3X damage: weight . My Atlas weighs 100 tons.

Shouldnt you be going by armor, not weight? No offense but 100 damage total in a match really isnt that much.

Dracol, on 20 May 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

IMHO, it's this type of mentality that hurts pugs more often then not.

In order to maintain my 63% win rate, I play to win... not to do the most damage or get the most kills or have the best K/D ratio.

If our base is being capped and we need time to out cap: I'm there on our base, taking damage, buying us time, and dying.
Our main force is about to make a hard push? I'll run my med. through the enemy lines first so that they turn.... leaving their backs exposed to the oncoming onslaught.

My point is, unless you have at least a few players on your team that is willing to forgo getting massive damage in order to do what is necessary to win, the other team will get the win if they have a few on their side. The only way to guarantee having one on your side is to be the one.

I see your point. I play to win as well, and that involves protecting myself and my team via offense. Ill draw fire with my atlas and provide AMS support to keep my team alive. Im not a capper by any means, and if I have to change my style of play in order to consistently win then im not going to play anymore.

[Dracol]

sharkbait689, on 20 May 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

I see your point. I play to win as well, and that involves protecting myself and my team via offense. Ill draw fire with my atlas and provide AMS support to keep my team alive. Im not a capper by any means, and if I have to change my style of play in order to consistently win then im not going to play anymore.

To quote Samuel Butler "Young people have a marvelous faculty of either dying or adapting themselves to circumstances."