105 replies to this topic

[Roland]

If you are losing all the time, then it's time you looked at the common denominator of those matches.

Sorry for having to be the one to point it out. Not trying to be a ****, just pointing out the obvious.

[Syrkres]

Another thing I noticed this past week is different level of play.

While I have only recently returned to MWO (from taking a break for awhile), I have been in 3-4 man groups on TS most of my time. But even this past week I seemed to have incurred a larger increase in losses.

I am not sure if it's because more new people are coming on, and grouping with them (it's one of the public TS servers) or if because more people are finding Clans/Merc groups and now playing more as a unit than just pick up TS groups (so the play is at a higher level).

I think it may be a bit of both, I have seen less of the familiar faces (names) on the TS server, so they either have stopped or went somewhere else and a lot of new faces (names).

Edited by Syrkres, 20 May 2013 - 08:49 AM.

[Stoicblitzer]

when i start losing, i switch to a jump sniper. Then I win.

[Syllogy]

sharkbait689, on 20 May 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

I play to win as well,
...
if I have to change my style of play in order to consistently win then im not going to play anymore.

If you refuse to change how you play, how can you say that you play to win?

You keep losing, but you refuse to change how you play.

Have you ever heard the definition of Insanity?

[Tarl Cabot]

Hammerfinn, on 18 May 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

They actually have done this, it's called Elo, but it's invisible to players. It assigns you a score based on your wins and losses and the Elo of the other team. When you lose, it goes down, when you win, it goes up, so in theory you should eventually be matched with players who are at your approximate skill-level. It does take time and a lot of matches to get it to where it should be, but it does eventually do pretty well.

From re-reading the Devs description it works like that one if the following is true. If the group of people you are will should theoretically win but instead you lose, then your ELO drops. If you are expected to lose but win then your ELO increases. If you are expected to win and you do win, then your ELO stays the same. Same if you are expected to lose and do.

I think there are a few details I am not remembering, but the gist is if you win and were expected to win, your ELO does not change.

[w0rm]

Simple solution: Never drop solo.

[Carcass23]

Dry your eyes, you might be able to see the enemy mechs better. Seriously, why did you even bother posting? Hate being the bearer of bad news OP, you do not wish to change your playstyle. Sorry to tell you this, but your playstyle sucks. You said it yourself.

What, are you four years old? Change your tactics!

Edited by Carcass23, 20 May 2013 - 12:04 PM.

[Blackadder]

ICEFANG13, on 19 May 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

So I die, and I killed someone, and then its 7v7

You die, and don't kill someone, and then its 7v8

See why I use the 1 kill as good rule?

Getting one kill means you did at minimum 1 point of damage to one internal component on a torso to a mech.

Your now fighting 7v8.

Two minutes later its 2v6 because your absorbed with getting your kill, your buddies are trying to get theres and your team loses

See what i did there?

Assists, Damage Done, Components destroyed are all far better metrics then kills are. Intangibles like Scouting, Capping, using Tag, Spotting enemy movement are all far better metrics then getting a kill is as well.

[Major Derps]

Tarl Cabot, on 20 May 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

From re-reading the Devs description it works like that one if the following is true. If the group of people you are will should theoretically win but instead you lose, then your ELO drops. If you are expected to lose but win then your ELO increases. If you are expected to win and you do win, then your ELO stays the same. Same if you are expected to lose and do.

I think there are a few details I am not remembering, but the gist is if you win and were expected to win, your ELO does not change.

Throw in there, that when you kill a higher ranked player, your ELO goes up; and if you are killed by a lower ranked ELO your ranking drops.

DaZur, on 20 May 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

Understood and agree to a point. That said, the down-side to the "Start at the bottom and climb your way to the top" premise creates an even more unbalanced outcome. A half-way decent player would mount a steady and otherwise pedantic climb to a erroneous and bloated Elo ranking as a result of playing sub-par opponents... In short order, they will find themselves paired with players who out-match them and they would suffer even harsher loss streaks as they peak and valley with the Elo.

While not perfect, at least the current Elo keeps a player in the ballpark with out convincing them they are Babe Ruth.

And my point still stands... Blaming the game for losing before doing a little self-analysis and trying to figure out "why" is far more damaging to a players progress than the deficits in the game mechanics.

Look at it this way... "IF" it was as simple as the Elo and game mechanics being broken, everyone would struggle to succeed. The reality is many, many people have consistent success in spite of the MW:O's deficits.

I see where you are coming from, and I agree...to a point. Whilst they may be buffed higher than they are ready for in respect for skill, they will have had time to get the equipment and experience to be competitive against the big boys. Yes any mech can be dangerous to another; but (for example) my atlas purpose built, and mastered, a first time pilot in his shiny new stock (or trial) mech stands no chance; no matter what he is in. I just think they should have time before they are thrown into the shark pit.
I also think rank should be shown. People have no idea where they stand at the moment, and I really think this half the problem. If someone ranked at 1300, gets owned by someone ranked 2000; then at the moment they just see it as them loosing constantly. At least if ranking is shown, then they will understand.

Carcass23, on 20 May 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

Dry your eyes, you might be able to see the enemy mechs better. Seriously, why did you even bother posting? Hate being the bearer of bad news OP, you do not wish to change your playstyle. Sorry to tell you this, but your playstyle sucks. You said it yourself.

What, are you four years old? Change your tactics!

Why bother posting this crap? OP has every right to post what he did. He made a valid, reasonable point, you just made an arrogant one.

[ICEFANG13]

Carcass23, on 20 May 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

Dry your eyes, you might be able to see the enemy mechs better. Seriously, why did you even bother posting? Hate being the bearer of bad news OP, you do not wish to change your playstyle. Sorry to tell you this, but your playstyle sucks. You said it yourself.

What, are you four years old? Change your tactics!

Thanks that was so helpful, glad you chimed in. Everyone loves current mechwarrioronline.

Blackadder, on 20 May 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Getting one kill means you did at minimum 1 point of damage to one internal component on a torso to a mech.

Your now fighting 7v8.

Two minutes later its 2v6 because your absorbed with getting your kill, your buddies are trying to get theres and your team loses

See what i did there?

Assists, Damage Done, Components destroyed are all far better metrics then kills are. Intangibles like Scouting, Capping, using Tag, Spotting enemy movement are all far better metrics then getting a kill is as well.

Assists?
If you stripped 100% of armor off a mech, and left all of them alive with 1 point in the head, leg, and CT, and no one killed a single mech, you get no assists.
Damage done?
You can kill mechs pretty easily if you're good enough to damage the spots that are weakest. Say someone really got 8 cockpit shots on mechs with no cockpit armor and deals 144 damage with 8 kills. Is he a bad player because he couldn't break 200 damage?
Component destruction?
Yeah shooting arms off is the best way to kill enemy mechs, that's why everyone does it and why its how the game is won. No killing a mech through CT is always better than making it lose arms unless it has ridiculously low armor in the arms.

You know what combines the advantages and disadvantages of all of those?
Kills.

Yeah I used some extreme examples, but so did you. When I say, get a kill, I mean you kill the mech completely or deal most of the damage to it to kill it. What is hard to understand about this concept?

[Lokust Davion]

My advice is to get a light mech, preferably with ecm, and base cap the **** out of every match especially on large maps.

[Sable Dove]

It's a huge oversight in ELO.
Here's a game you're not likely to win. You lost? That's okay, we'll just keep your ELO about where it is, and continue putting you in games you're likely to lose.

[Hotthedd]

Lokust Davion, on 20 May 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

My advice is to get a light mech, preferably with ecm, and base cap the **** out of every match especially on large maps.

In the days before HSR and the BAP buff, I would agree with you, but life is going to be difficult for many light pilots now.

[Doppelsoldner King Crab]

Hi there.
Maybe you aren't using the best chassis for you.
I was hellbent the CTF being my best and favorite chassis then tried a dragon and did very well with it.

K/D on CTF (4xchassis) is about 1.0. W/L is 1.35.
K/D on DRG (3xchassis) is 1.5. W/L is 1.15.

with this, it means DRG is a good hunter but the CTF is a good fire support mech and wins matches.

to hell with ELO, gauge how much you contributed by looking at the match-end scores. if you are on the top 3 of your team, well done even if you lost.
it should be your new target, the top 3.

Here are some tips to improve your game.
Intelligence - a good scout greatly helps the team. Info on enemy position is very vital to success.
Positioning - i have seen 3 win vs a 5 mech group because of a good firing line, so position yourself properly.
Timing - look carefully on the enemy arrow. time yourself when they are looking at a different position for free hits.
Focus Firing - fire on easy to hit mechs like assaults. shoot lights if your loadout is anti-light weapons. ML, streaks, GR (yeah)
Learn to run away - if you are being focus fired, run and change position
Try different loadouts - PPCs are overrated, as well as poptarts. ERLL is good against poppers. lasers are instant. shoot them in the air then head for cover asap. you should have hidden before their shot arrive.

Hope your situation improves.

Edited by PrismArc, 20 May 2013 - 09:18 PM.

[sharkbait689]

PrismArc, on 20 May 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

Hi there.
Maybe you aren't using the best chassis for you.
I was hellbent the CTF being my best and favorite chassis then tried a dragon and did very well with it.

K/D on CTF (4xchassis) is about 1.0. W/L is 1.35.
K/D on DRG (3xchassis) is 1.5. W/L is 1.15.

with this, it means DRG is a good hunter but the CTF is a good fire support mech and wins matches.

to hell with ELO, gauge how much you contributed by looking at the match-end scores. if you are on the top 3 of your team, well done even if you lost.
it should be your new target, the top 3.

Here are some tips to improve your game.
Intelligence - a good scout greatly helps the team. Info on enemy position is very vital to success.
Positioning - i have seen 3 win vs a 5 mech group because of a good firing line, so position yourself properly.
Timing - look carefully on the enemy arrow. time yourself when they are looking at a different position for free hits.
Focus Firing - fire on easy to hit mechs like assaults. shoot lights if your loadout is anti-light weapons. ML, streaks, GR (yeah)
Learn to run away - if you are being focus fired, run and change position
Try different loadouts - PPCs are overrated, as well as poptarts. ERLL is good against poppers. lasers are instant. shoot them in the air then head for cover asap. you should have hidden before their shot arrive.

Hope your situation improves.

For some reason i did really well with the Dragon as well. No idea why. Once i get enough money im going to buy one and make it exactly like the trial one.

Anyway, it seems like what needs to happen is for Pirahna to implement more options with matchmaking. When i first started the game up, i thought "Launch" meant launch the actual game, because surely, i thought, it would give more options than, well, none at all. If they let people, for instance, pit groups against other groups, or allow you to make balanced weight matches, it feels more the players fault when they lose, because theyll know the matches were more even. It doesnt seem right to just make a simple program that doesnt seem to work half the time and not implement any other matchmaking to speak of. come on, pirahna.

[James DeGriz]

In many respects, OP, I do feel your pain, although I do find it's often easier to be fairly fatalistic about things. There are some nights when I do really well, and other nights where I seem to **** it up no matter what I do. Sometimes you're the fly and sometimes you're the windscreen. On the "bad" nights, I find it easier just to log out and do something else for an hour then come back; if for no other reason just to chill out for a bit and come back with a fresher mind and approach.

Additionally, I seem to do better when I pug than when I'm in a premade. The guys I drop with are generally much more competent players than me and so when I play with them, I'm assuming I'm put into a much higher ELO bracket than I would normally be.

[FearNotDeath]

Actually don't mind the losses that much I've been falling since elo to near a 1/1 win, loss ratio. If you are an experienced pilot they will team you up with people who are terrible to offset your abilities. I have mech's with +2.0-3.0 kdr's over 100's of matches and I still get teammates asking how to chain fire and group weapons.

It's your job to carry the weight sometimes take pride in it and the challenge of facing a better team.

[MaddMaxx]

If ELO is Chassis class based, perhaps select a new Chassis Class, which will reset your ELO and see how that works out. Change Chassis classes as required and then pick your best over- all weight class based on W/L.

[TruePoindexter]

Had a nasty set of games last night. It's disheartening but moving past your emotions of trying again is part of the struggle to become a better player.

P.S. Don't play sick - I was watching my own game play later and was embarrassed for myself.

[NRP]

I've been leveling my Hunchbacks and have also been on an epic losing streak. It's my fault though. I charge into battle thinking I'm Koreanese only to be quickly reminded that I am most certainly not, LOL! I still have fun though, win or lose.