324 replies to this topic

[Nicholas Carlyle]

MustrumRidcully, on 20 May 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

I agree and disagree. Ideally, you actually hit exactly where you wanted to hit. But in truth - very few mechs can take 40-60 damage easily at any location, and any location that has lost its armor is definitely easy pickings. Even if you yourself are full of fail and hit, with 3 shots, 3 different locations, you already helped your team a lot - without any real risk to yourself, because the sniper's exposure to enemy fire is always minimized.
Which is the difference - when I am - which happens way more often than I want to admit here - miss with a Dual AC/20 shot and hit an arm (or nothing at all)when I wanted to hit the CT, then I am in the face of the enemy and he will shoot back, If he's better than me - and that's not that hard to achieve - then I might just give him the window he needed to murderize me.

This is pretty much on the ball. If from 1k-1400m, you do 120 damage, even if it's to 3 different parts, you've created a situation where that mech now has to play very cautiously. And one bad move may not cause death, but could potentially wipe out half of his weapons.

And if 5 of your teammates do the same, while you have a couple ECM Raven's shadowing you for light protection/missile blockage. It becomes very easy to kill non-poptarting teams.

[Trauglodyte]

I like the addition of the shake. But, and tell me if I'm wrong, the good poptarters (ie, the non-poptarts) fired on the way down and not on the way up. Therefor, it'll just take more timing to do it properly where as it was simple before.

The one thing that I do find curious about all of this is it seems that PGI is falling in line with Mechwarrior changes that it seems every other version of the game has succumbed to which makes me wonder why they didn't simply learn from the mistakes of others and implement these sorts of reforms prior to the problem even coming to light. Ya know?

[Blue Hymn]

Kyone Akashi, on 20 May 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

This is a line of reasoning I just can't follow. Instead of balancing, we should just limit the number of people who can benefit from an apparently overpowering advantage? That just sounds un-fun to both the players that still get disarmed or cored with a single shot from a klick away as well as the JJ-Snipers who fail to find a match because of this limitation, or are not allowed to drop with their groupmates, or at the very least will experience a much different placement in ELO.

[edit] ... or are not actually "Poptarts" themselves but just happen to use the same type of 'Mech...

Well, consider the current situation; JJ-snipers are already as bad as the 6ppc stalker and the 2ac20/gauss mechs that run about. Both are situations which can deal incredible harm to an adversary in a single blow, and they're being used much more often nowadays, JJ-snipers especially. I am pretty sure that some people here have met more than three, four mechs that sport these on the enemy team, and how it...well, complicates the entertainment of the game.

It's not too bad if there's only one or two mechs sporting such weapons, but it gets pretty frustrating when more than half the enemy team does so. The question here now is --

Is there a possibility to diversify such encounters per match? With the exceptions of premades - which runs whatever they wish - for the PUGS like me, is there a way to mix up the mechs in the match so it doesn't particularly favor one side or the other? And if so, debate about it.

[Roland]

Quote

This is pretty much on the ball. If from 1k-1400m, you do 120 damage, even if it's to 3 different parts, you've created a situation where that mech now has to play very cautiously. And one bad move may not cause death, but could potentially wipe out half of his weapons.

You know what is better than putting that mech into a position where he has to play cautiously?
Killing his mech.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Roland, on 20 May 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

You know what is better than putting that mech into a position where he has to play cautiously?
Killing his mech.

Sure is!

So, we've established if you can kill a mech from 1k to 1400m, you should. And if you can't, you still cripple the armor in 2-3 parts of the aforementioned mech.

All from 1k-1400m.

Unless you are on a terrible computer, a terrible connection or you jus thave the worst aim with a weapon that actually makes it hard to miss.

So why do we think it's a good thing?

[ElLocoMarko]

Last year I dropped brawlers to pick up LRM and boom - ECM module.
Early this year I was a splatcat apprentice.... missile nerf.
Saturday I bought a 3D so I could find out what all this pop-tarting is about.

I get the feeling I am being watched

[Carbon Guardian]

I agree with your point on changing tactics I like to ask my team if they are good at defending or dying in certain coords, that most fighting occurs.

Shinikaru, on 20 May 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

If your defending the whiners (probably a sympathizer or a similar whiner) then No. You asked to be made fun of.

Trust me I am the last person to defend whiners. It's just counter productive to respond when they can easily be ignored and actual solutions can be written

[Nicholas Carlyle]

ElLocoMarko, on 20 May 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

Last year I dropped brawlers to pick up LRM and boom - ECM module.
Early this year I was a splatcat apprentice.... missile nerf.
Saturday I bought a 3D so I could find out what all this pop-tarting is about.

I get the feeling I am being watched

Buy a stalker and give it a bunch of PPC's next. Thanks.

[Lumpypants]

Kaijin, on 20 May 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

Torso movement is dependent on the fusion engine running, so that should be allowed even in freefall, but in freefall, with no thrust there is no vectoring, so technically, any mech that is in freefall when it lands on the ground should not be landing on it's feet - should in fact fall over, taking additional damage, and have to stand up after such a boneheaded job at mech piloting. That will never be the case in MWO though. It just baffles me how much the game is supposed to be skill-based, with the only skill-check being can you point and click with a mouse.

You are right about the torso movement. But without the legs anchoring the base, your torso would rotate one direction, and your legs would counter-rotate to a degree correspending to the mass differential between the top and bottom. So your torso would turn just a litte, while your puny-in-comparison legs would have to spin halfway around to compensate. Holy change of direction, Batman!

FTR, I've always assumed there was just enough reserved JJ juice left over for stabilization and impact dampening. Otherwise, mechs would be standing knee deep in the grass when they plummeted into the dirt upon landing. That'd be silly.

[MavRCK]

Pop-tarting would be dead and just fine if SRM damage didn't get nerfed.

[keith]

sad how must ppl who posted in here have no idea what a skilled sniper is capable of. yet they wish to nerf something, because the game is not even done. JJ shake is dumb should not be put in till they fix srms and see how that fixes the meta.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

ElLocoMarko, on 20 May 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

But they have so many missile variants and the "temporary" missile fix is what... 4 patches old now? Not feeling very temporary.

If you get missiles nerfed again I will find you.

keith, on 20 May 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

sad how must ppl who posted in here have no idea what a skilled sniper is capable of. yet they wish to nerf something, because the game is not even done. JJ shake is dumb should not be put in till they fix srms and see how that fixes the meta.

Yes, we have no idea what a skilled sniper can do. We are all noobs. You and your team are the only smart people in this game.

I'm so tired of Snow Raven posters and their green sigs today.

[Soy]

I'm busy resurrecting poptarts, gimme a few mins

[keith]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 20 May 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

Yes, we have no idea what a skilled sniper can do. We are all noobs. You and your team are the only smart people in this game.

I'm so tired of Snow Raven posters and their green sigs today.

y thank u. the green is very nice, u can thank bryan for the wonderful sig.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

keith, on 20 May 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

y thank u. the green is very nice, u can thank bryan for the wonderful sig.

u r welcome.

[TheMagician]

The people who win now, are the same people who were winning when it was all about Large lasers, gauss, SRMs, AC20, and medium lasers. People were saying back then 'the people who gauss boat are going to start whining when they are losing'. Nope. They keep winning, because they keep working hard and finding ways to win.

[Sephlock]

You guys are being way too optimistic. I look forward to riding the wave of your tears in the near future.



It'll really all depend on the missile speed increase- if it works out to be enough to tag them before they manage to fall back down, maybe. If not.... lol.

[ElLocoMarko]

Sephlock, on 20 May 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

You guys are being way too optimistic. I look forward to riding the wave of your tears in the near future.

It'll really all depend on the missile speed increase- if it works out to be enough to tag them before they manage to fall back down, maybe. If not.... lol.

Think.. if the missile speedup allows for a beagled LRM catapult to pop-up, TAG and fire.. and then target decay keeps it lit long enough to get missiles on target at say.. 400m. The crying will be deafening. That is if missiles actually hurt... and they don't. I use them for couch cushions.

Edited by ElLocoMarko, 20 May 2013 - 12:56 PM.

[Ursus_Spiritus]

With jumping in general, there should be a chance to fail piloting check, no matter the weight class of the mech, nor speed. Presently it seems there is very little concern for falling and damaging one's own mech aside from leg damage and legs are considerably armored, not to mentioned less likely to be hit/targeted on a jumping mech behind cover.

A possible "nerf" for pop tarting. Mechs can not fire while jump jets are lit - plausible cause? Energy transfer/levels for moving that much weight and so far/fast? (yes I realize the fusion engines are powerful)
Seeing as Jump Jets are supposed to be just for movement... ?

Also when a mech launches/lands there is cross hair/arm travel on the vertical due to the mass of the mech?
The heavier the mech, the more 'lag' in bring up the arms/cross hair? Minimizing time on target/aiming point?

The only legitimate "attack" would be DFA...?

Something I think that would ad a skill level aspect to jumping and shooting is kinetic(PPC/Gause/ACs?) energy of weapons firing during jump, and also pilots having to keep the mech level. A balancing act of game mechanics. Using controls to balance the mech.

It could potentially make pop-tarting that much more difficult...

Edited by 8100d 5p4tt3r, 20 May 2013 - 01:12 PM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Roland, on 20 May 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

You know what is better than putting that mech into a position where he has to play cautiously?
Killing his mech.

Silly you for playing competitively and effectively.

Just spray and prey, it matters not where you hit.

Nicholas Carlyle, on 20 May 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

I'm so tired of Snow Raven posters and their green sigs today.

Show me on the doll, where you got touched today, people disagree with you, they disagree with removing a style of play when we should be seeking to balance all styles competitively so they all work not just one.

Add significant heat for using JJ, you punish energy based snipers, by reducing their RoF, JJ for lights like the Jenner are still ok, and used for movement rather than jump sniping.

The style of play is still there, still viable just as is short range play.

Edited by DV McKenna, 20 May 2013 - 01:35 PM.