324 replies to this topic

[Shinikaru]

I do have a serious point to add to this topic however.
For anyone and everyone that thinks pop tarts matter at all for the outcome of the game to answer.

From what I can tell, and have witnessed in action; Pop-tartin is single minded, and self-regulates.
Meaning, they rarely move, or move very little. Also, to pop-tart safely they have severely Limited their own view of the field; therefore have a very narrow firing range within Effective weapon distance.
My question to you people specifically is. "are you dropping in mechs without legs?"

I play only assaults, and I have never ever ever, seriously been hampered by one or 2 pop-tarts that I can't simply ignore, walk to my destination under cover from, or flat out sneak up on from behind and core out.

If you think pop-tarts are a serious threat, you are not as good as can be done with this engine.

Carbon Guardian, on 20 May 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

I have an idea you stop whining about all the whiners so the rest of us can talk and come up with ideas! Where do you think game developers get out of the box ideas? Answer from the forums, it's water off the ducks back to them. But having to read people writing stop whining instead of here's a good solution or potentially good solution, they read "everyone stop whining", which translates to appease the majority!

If your defending the whiners (probably a sympathizer or a similar whiner) then No. You asked to be made fun of.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Mister Blastman, on 20 May 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Whoa. That's saying a lot. There isn't actually much skill to high-alpha builds. They hit where you aim instantly with zero spread. Point, click, win.

And heat management is one of the few things that distinguishes a skilled high-pinpoint-alpha pilot from a poor one (hitting fast-moving targets reliably is another). Jump-sniping removes heat management as a consideration, which is one reason why poor pop-tarts tend to do better than poor 4+ ppc stalkers - make a mistake with heat in the latter and you're boned, but with the former it hardly matters.

[Budor]

Shinikaru, on 20 May 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

...one or 2 pop-tarts that I can't simply ignore, walk to my destination under cover from, or flat out sneak up on from behind and core out...

Aha so thats the solution right there, sneak upon em in an assault. WHY didnt we come up with that before!? All it takes is an ignorant ninja atlas!

[Thanatos676]

jay35, on 20 May 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

I have a neutral stance about the change, I'm fine with either scenario. Here near the meat of the Elo bell curve, poptarting has already declined to a moderate level without any nerfs required, so the FOTM is already taken care of in the PUG world. The nerfs are truly unnecessary for the majority of the playerbase. But on the other hand, I do understand that it's out of control in the higher Elo bands and 8-mans, and appreciate the need to do something about it.


Irrelevant, since this is MW not TT Battletech. In most of the previous MW games, jumpjets were used for more than just maneuvering.

The sooner you stop trying to force BT TT turn-based rules and mechanics into real-time first-person gameplay, the sooner you'll better appreciate what MWO is all about. Yes, it utilizes certain aspects of Battletech to create the universe and meta, but when it comes to actual gameplay, it by necessity must depart from turn-based strictures and concepts designed and intended for that genre of gaming.

with all your comments about this subject on multiple different threads, i think someone is just afraid of having their security blanket taken away. You most obviously dont have neutral stance on this subject.

Edited by Thanatos676, 20 May 2013 - 11:21 AM.

[Roland]

Quote

There isn't actually much skill to high-alpha builds. They hit where you aim instantly with zero spread. Point, click, win.

Given that all the high alpha builds involve travel time weapons, it's not quite as simple as you suggest.

I think this is actually one of the things that makes such builds enrage many folks.. because those same folks try to run the builds, and they still get ruined, because their aim isn't good enough to run a high alpha build.

[Shinikaru]

Budor, on 20 May 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Aha so thats the solution right there, sneak upon em in an assault. WHY didnt we come up with that before!? All it takes is an ignorant ninja atlas!

go ahead and search up my ratios. it works if you are skilled enough to counter a single minded attack pattern. which isn't all that difficult. unless you are ALSO set on a single minded attack pattern. The fault lies not in the game, but the players playing it. What your asking for is the dumbing down of the game until eventually all we have is farmville on a touch-screen.

Meet the challenge inside of the system, and find a counter, It Is possible, I do it every game it crops up. Then complain. But don''t complain until you can all Honestly say that you have tried modifying your own play styles on the fly to counter it. 95% of you Have not. You do the same things over and over and get the same result. therefore "games imbalanced."
hah.

[Kyone Akashi]

Shinikaru, on 20 May 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

I play only assaults, and I have never ever ever, seriously been hampered by one or 2 pop-tarts that I can't simply ignore, walk to my destination under cover from, or flat out sneak up on from behind and core out.

I suppose armor helps alleviate the issue somewhat. Or perhaps it is that the snipers focus their fire on "easier" targets that are less hard to crack? Given that most shots appear to be fired towards enemies that move towards the enemy position, there is little difference between attacking an Assault or a smaller 'Mech in terms of movement.

Now, I myself did not have too much trouble with JJ-Snipers so far, but I can certainly see where the other players are coming from and would rather see this issue alleviated before it escalates into something like the months of terror with the 3L and 2D with their combination of broken hitboxes and ECM/SSRM, so I'm glad to hear that the devs are apparently looking into this already. The moment I realized that JJ-Snipers aren't doing much for the enjoyment of the game was when I lost my undamaged right arm and its main gun to an attack out of nowhere by a jump-jetting PPC boat. Their ability to not only strike that hardly with surprise but fall back into cover that fast to escape retribution, and then casually cool down to repeat this pattern from a few meters further to the side, is just too much of an advantage, imo.

I'm quite simply a disciple of the classic Battletech "brawl", the direct close- to mid-range engagement between two or more BattleMechs, optionally involving flanking skirmishers and limited fire support from afar, and anything that sabotages this due to overwhelming efficiency is something I see as a threat to my experience.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 20 May 2013 - 11:30 AM.

[Keifomofutu]

Roland, on 20 May 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Given that all the high alpha builds involve travel time weapons, it's not quite as simple as you suggest.

I think this is actually one of the things that makes such builds enrage many folks.. because those same folks try to run the builds, and they still get ruined, because their aim isn't good enough to run a high alpha build.

PPC are not difficult to lead. You can land hits pretty easily even at max range against anything but a light.

[Roland]

Keifomofutu, on 20 May 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

PPC are not difficult to lead. You can land hits pretty easily even at max range against anything but a light.

But it's not good enough to simply hit a mech.

You need to hit a specific location on a mech. At least, you do if you want to be effective.

[Budor]

Shinikaru, on 20 May 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

go ahead and search up my ratios. it works if you are skilled enough to counter a single minded attack pattern. which isn't all that difficult. unless you are ALSO set on a single minded attack pattern. The fault lies not in the game, but the players playing it. What your asking for is the dumbing down of the game until eventually all we have is farmville on a touch-screen.

Meet the challenge inside of the system, and find a counter, It Is possible, I do it every game it crops up. Then complain. But don''t complain until you can all Honestly say that you have tried modifying your own play styles on the fly to counter it. 95% of you Have not. You do the same things over and over and get the same result. therefore "games imbalanced."
hah.

How exactly would i search up your ratios? Im interested, stat screenshot would help.

[Keifomofutu]

Roland, on 20 May 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

But it's not good enough to simply hit a mech.

You need to hit a specific location on a mech. At least, you do if you want to be effective.

Not from 1000 meters you don't. Its free damage until they get a little closer. If you fire for the centre of the mech you'll land enough shots CT.

[Stoicblitzer]

Shinikaru, on 20 May 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

I do have a serious point to add to this topic however.
For anyone and everyone that thinks pop tarts matter at all for the outcome of the game to answer.

From what I can tell, and have witnessed in action; Pop-tartin is single minded, and self-regulates.
Meaning, they rarely move, or move very little. Also, to pop-tart safely they have severely Limited their own view of the field; therefore have a very narrow firing range within Effective weapon distance.
My question to you people specifically is. "are you dropping in mechs without legs?"

I play only assaults, and I have never ever ever, seriously been hampered by one or 2 pop-tarts that I can't simply ignore, walk to my destination under cover from, or flat out sneak up on from behind and core out.

If you think pop-tarts are a serious threat, you are not as good as can be done with this engine.



If your defending the whiners (probably a sympathizer or a similar whiner) then No. You asked to be made fun of.

bad anecdotal evidence is bad.

[Petroshka]

Keifomofutu, on 20 May 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Not from 1000 meters you don't. Its free damage until they get a little closer. If you fire for the centre of the mech you'll land enough shots CT.

something obviously went wrong when you're charging a team of ppc snipers head on across an open plain for 1000 meters

[Kaijin]

Lumpypants, on 20 May 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

Of course the mech would shake from jumpjets. While using the jets...
1. Gyroscopes and dampers can't counteract it. Your legs are what automatically adjust to changing terrain. There may be some small dampers within the torso. But there's nothing that allows the cockpit to move in 6 axes independently form the torso. Especially if you have the jets strapped to your @$$.
2. You're lifting on thrust alone. No control surfaces come into play.

That should change once the jets are shut off. You're in freefall. That also means you shouldn't be able to twist while falling. No thrust to vector.

Some canon jump-capable mechs do have control surfaces, and I'm not referring to LAMs.

Torso movement is dependent on the fusion engine running, so that should be allowed even in freefall, but in freefall, with no thrust there is no vectoring, so technically, any mech that is in freefall when it lands on the ground should not be landing on it's feet - should in fact fall over, taking additional damage, and have to stand up after such a boneheaded job at mech piloting. That will never be the case in MWO though. It just baffles me how much the game is supposed to be skill-based, with the only skill-check being can you point and click with a mouse.

[Roland]

Keifomofutu, on 20 May 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Not from 1000 meters you don't. Its free damage until they get a little closer. If you fire for the centre of the mech you'll land enough shots CT.

But see, it DOES matter if they actually know how to shoot and can consistently land shots on you.

I've encountered this a ton of times... some guy tries to shoot me from range, and spreads damage all over my mech while I core him out.

I mean, if he's shooting at another trash player who's equally bad at shooting, then I guess it's "easy", but if you are playing against folks who actually CAN aim at long range? Then that means you need to be able to aim with equal precision... and that means more than simply hitting some random location on their mech.

[buttmonkey]

about time as well. you need more skill to pick the crap out between your toes than you do to poptart plus the fact that is just looks plain rediculous

this is the current state of the game only the whack a moles have ppcs

[BlackWidow]

silentD11, on 20 May 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

As long as people are playing with kills as their priority there will always be an OP build to move to.
.

S'truth! Yeah, I am ANXIOUSLY awaiting CW where the WIN will be the priority and interested to see how completely new tactics appear that focus on the objective. Yes, we all like punching each other in the face, but team deathmatch allows for FOTM tactics and mechs (MIN-MAX) to super cede the goals.

[deforce]

Keifomofutu, on 20 May 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Not from 1000 meters you don't. Its free damage until they get a little closer. If you fire for the centre of the mech you'll land enough shots CT.

free shots are 1400m+

at 1000m you def should be placing your shots. if im running a ER build, 800-1000m is my optimal range.

[Stoicblitzer]

deforce, on 20 May 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

free shots are 1400m+

at 1000m you def should be placing your shots. if im running a ER build, 800-1000m is my optimal range.

I was just thinking this. Uncanny.

[MustrumRidcully]

Roland, on 20 May 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

But it's not good enough to simply hit a mech.

You need to hit a specific location on a mech. At least, you do if you want to be effective.

I agree and disagree. Ideally, you actually hit exactly where you wanted to hit. But in truth - very few mechs can take 40-60 damage easily at any location, and any location that has lost its armor is definitely easy pickings. Even if you yourself are full of fail and hit, with 3 shots, 3 different locations, you already helped your team a lot - without any real risk to yourself, because the sniper's exposure to enemy fire is always minimized.
Which is the difference - when I am - which happens way more often than I want to admit here - miss with a Dual AC/20 shot and hit an arm (or nothing at all)when I wanted to hit the CT, then I am in the face of the enemy and he will shoot back, If he's better than me - and that's not that hard to achieve - then I might just give him the window he needed to murderize me.