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So Poptarting's Officially Getting Killed.


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#221 Lupus Aurelius

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:31 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 21 May 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

I would like to also Kyone, But to my reading you have the Brawls an the Brawl-nots. With a few players in between who will use either strategy when appropriate.


There is the fallacy most people get themselves into. Polarization, extreme fitting for one or another "role". But if you look at most BT/TT, most mechs have a spread of ranges, with focus being to the role they support. This is why LRM Catapults have medium lasers, they are fitted to a role, long range indirect fire, but also have some medium/short range direct fire weapons.

Now, most long range weapons can be used short ranged, with the exceptions of the PPC and LRM. Extreme fitting, all LRM or all PPC, will leave you basically defenseless within 180 and 90 meters respectively.

-Gauss, AC2, AC5, UAC5, ERPPC, and ERLL, and can be used at all ranges. Direct fire.
-LRM can be used long to mid range, indirect fire
-AC10, LBX-10, LL , LPL mid to short range
-AC20, MG, ML, MPL, Flamer, SL, SPL, SRM, and SSRM, short range only. Direct fire (you have to keep lock on SSRMs, so I consider then direct fire).

Now, I know the rule as well as any (EVE vet) the extreme condition becomes the norm. Hi-alpha pinpoint damage is the "easiest" way to fight. But it has it's weakness, hi heat, frequent shutdowns, unable to sustain fire in a brawl situation. Yes, a long range sniper can brawl also, but not as effectively as someone set up for it. And it gets boring fast, for both sides.

I never "boat". My preference is to sort of snipe, I actually like to be at range supporting a brawler, like 400-600 away, shooting someone focused on engaging with a team mate. But the unvarying law of Assaults is that something will get close to you, most times you are the slowest on the field, and teammates, especially pugging, will not always be there to help.

One of my Stalker builds has an ERPPC, 4 med lasers, 2 srm4, 2srm6. I have long range, mid range, and short range covered, with most of my damage loaded at short range. All the weapons can be used at short range at all times, and it has a 60 alpha, 30 of which is SRM, and 20 of it the med lasers.

Another is 2 ERLL, 4 med lasers, 2 srm6, which has more damage loaded to long range, but again usable at short, 56 alpha.

And the Misery, 2 ERPPC, 1 Gauss, 2 med lasers, with most of the damage long range capable, still all usuable at short, but with only 45 alpha. I use this against poptarters and snipers all the time, with good success.

None of the mechs are fitted for only 1 range profile, and they are all usable at all ranges. Interesting enough, the one with most of it's damage long range capable has the lowest alpha of the 3 I use. It can brawl when it has to brawl, but in a brawl, I'd rather have the first one.

The point here is that only having 1 range profile limits you. Weight you damage to one side or the other, but always have some capability at ALL ranges. Ok, the long range boated poptarter will still do more damage to you then the other way around, but his whole premise is to avoid taking damage. As soon as he starts taking damage, he's going to have to change position, stay down, whatever, and you have suppressed him from doing damage,

If you like to brawl, fit 1 long range weapon that is short range capable, even 2. It will not effect your short range capability, and you'll be able to vary you tactics to your situation. The key is versatility.

Edited by Lupus Aurelius, 21 May 2013 - 09:53 AM.


#222 Chavette

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:33 AM

View PostElLocoMarko, on 21 May 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

I found the podcast in which crosshair shake was mentioned. No Guts No Galaxy podcast #72 at 26:00. A snippet of the conversation...

Shawn: … Jump Jets, do you have something specific to talk about?

Omid (Lead Gameplay Engineer - PGI): “Yeah, we’ve kinda noticed there has been this trend in the meta game of people using jump jets and ballistic or energy weapon boats. So we are planning to add jump jet shake. For sure. Yea.. I’m reading some of the comments. Trend, It is a bit of a trend (nervous laugh).

Omid : So, we are adding some jump jet shake. It is going to vary depending on the chassis so presumably light mechs won't be affected as much as heavy mechs. It is going to shake the crosshair and also throw off your aim. So it is going to make it a lot harder to basically snipe with those weapons.

Shawn: So it is basically trying to negate the fact that pop-tarting in general is not a valid tactic that the game design is meant to be.

Omid: Yeah we are following in the footsteps of a lot of previous mechwarrior games , it seems. But yeah. For sure.



Thats what the thread is about. Seems like its moved to next patch though, along with the SSRM splash nerf, and alpha strike cure.

Edited by Chavette, 21 May 2013 - 09:34 AM.


#223 ElLocoMarko

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:36 AM

Yeah. I particpated way at the front end of the thread and people were like "It's in NGNG" and left it. I wanted the official word. Official. That's a good one.

#224 xRaeder

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:24 AM

View PostCapperDeluxe, on 20 May 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

Jump jet reticle shake will not kill poptarting outright you know. It will make it a bit more difficult and more open to retaliation, and that alone may cause some to not partake anymore. But it will still be a valid tactic and deadly in the right hands. Win-win.


See here for a sample of what it could be like from MWLL


I think it is funny. But this game looks far more fun than MWO.

#225 Mister Blastman

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:26 AM

Poptarting isn't dead this patch... it is BETTER with the seismic sensor that will help them detect flankers trying to sneak up on them.

Fail.

#226 MustrumRidcully

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:29 AM

View PostMister Blastman, on 21 May 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

Poptarting isn't dead this patch... it is BETTER with the seismic sensor that will help them detect flankers trying to sneak up on them.

Fail.

Not this patch perhaps... Gives everyone a chance to a last big Hooray for the poptarter?

#227 AntiCitizenJuan

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 05:30 PM

Is there an ETA on jumpjet shake?

#228 Noesis

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 05:34 PM

View PostAntiCitizenJuan, on 24 May 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

Is there an ETA on jumpjet shake?


http://mwomercs.com/...updated-may-24/

#229 Karenai

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 12:52 PM

As long as the screenshake only comes from the jumpjets, poptarts will live on. Many already shoot while falling down for better and smoother aim. Needs to shake the whole time while in air.

#230 keith

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 12:58 PM

View PostKarenai, on 25 May 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

As long as the screenshake only comes from the jumpjets, poptarts will live on. Many already shoot while falling down for better and smoother aim. Needs to shake the whole time while in air.


then screen needs to shake all the time? unfair that it happens when it falls in air to not under JJs, or even while under JJs. y not while a mech walks? we can't have 1 without the other i say. its like the pot calling the kettle black

#231 Truesight

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:02 PM

I do not think it will make much of a difference. Now the Stalker with its high hardpoints is the king of the PPC Boats. It will just shift, PPCs will still be used for sniping. I have not seen many PPC-Poptarts around lately.

#232 keith

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:20 PM

View PostTruesight, on 25 May 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

I do not think it will make much of a difference. Now the Stalker with its high hardpoints is the king of the PPC Boats. It will just shift, PPCs will still be used for sniping. I have not seen many PPC-Poptarts around lately.


thats because LRM arc with friendly LOS has helped some. maybe a buff to srm, and the whole meta will shift. by then it may be too late and the devs will have wasted their time and effort putting in JJ shake.

#233 Vassago Rain

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:22 PM

View PostTruesight, on 25 May 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

I do not think it will make much of a difference. Now the Stalker with its high hardpoints is the king of the PPC Boats. It will just shift, PPCs will still be used for sniping. I have not seen many PPC-Poptarts around lately.


But stalkers are fair. You can actually do something about them, and they need to at least partially expose themselves to hurt you.

#234 Lightfoot

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:25 PM

Let this be a lesson to you. The Medium Laser is the only noble and honorable weapon. Let the laser-fest begin!!!

#235 Splitpin

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:40 PM

View PostVassago Rain, on 25 May 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:


But stalkers are fair. You can actually do something about them, and they need to at least partially expose themselves to hurt you.


Fair ? whats fair ? A Stalker rocks forward and back, a poptart pops up and down, whats the difference ? You've got about the same time to return fire. Oh yeah the Stalker has 4-6 PPC/ERs yeah that's fair. I agree with Keith above if poptarts get screen shake from JJs, walking should have the same effect, let alone sprinting Jenner/Ravens. And umm whats a gyro for then ? Tanks of the 20th century solved these issues, everything has a stabilised gun that can be fired at speed across rough ground none of this should be any issue.

#236 Wispsy

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:56 PM

View PostVassago Rain, on 25 May 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:


But stalkers are fair. You can actually do something about them, and they need to at least partially expose themselves to hurt you.

You do realise a highlander has to expose far more of himself to shoot you then the stalker who literally sticks its arms above a random point on a hill for around half a second or less? Jumping just gives more freedom in positioning as any wall will do for cover to snipe behind.

#237 Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:17 PM

View PostWispsy, on 25 May 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

You do realise a highlander has to expose far more of himself to shoot you then the stalker who literally sticks its arms above a random point on a hill for around half a second or less? Jumping just gives more freedom in positioning as any wall will do for cover to snipe behind.

I'm guessing his logic is that the poptart falls back under cover more quickly.

#238 Wispsy

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:30 PM

View PostAstroniomix, on 25 May 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

I'm guessing his logic is that the poptart falls back under cover more quickly.


But that is also not at all the case...they can both choose to expose themselves for as long as they like, but the stalker can expose himself less, for less time and still shoot.

#239 Chavette

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:34 PM

View PostWispsy, on 25 May 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

But that is also not at all the case...they can both choose to expose themselves for as long as they like, but the stalker can expose himself less, for less time and still shoot.


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#240 Thorqemada

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:34 PM

They will simply field 4 PPC 5 SSRM Stalker and anything that isnt at least a Heavy will be dead in no time...





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