324 replies to this topic

[S p a n i a r d]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 May 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

MechWarrior takes place in teh BattleTech Universe an in this Universe Mech are just not supposed to jump and fire at the same time.

I didn't play MW4 on-line and I didn't use Jump jets in the PvE game. So what failed Mechanics were used in the past should be corrected in the present.

I read the keyword "Battletech Universe" so I'm gonna speak up.
I remember vaguely THERE WAS A MECH WHO JUMP(JET)ED AND FIRED
AND SCORED A HIT. He was piloting a 55-ton Wraith armed with
1 Large Pulse Laser and 2 Medium Pulse Lasers. It was mentioned in
a novel called :"Binding Force" by Loren L. Coleman

The BattleMech’s computer overrode the normal throttle commands
and shunted plasma from the fusion engine through to the jump jets
in the Wraith’s back. The 55-ton ’Mech rose into the air on fiery plumes,
jumping out of the missiles’ path and arcing toward the north bank and
battle. While still in the air, Aris snapped off a quick shot from his large
pulse laser. He was rewarded with a solid hit against the Shadow Hawk’s
right torso. Armor melted and ran under the scarlet beam.

He did it more than once in the novel.

There was even mention of how he was dancing around an Atlas
(his mech is very fast, around 115 kph) popping shots at it while
avoiding complete weapons lock from the Atlas. That's why
when i saw that happening between light mechs and assault mechs
in this game, i was really entertained.

Edited by S p a n i a r d, 30 May 2013 - 09:35 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

S p a n i a r d, on 30 May 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

I read the keyword "Battletech Universe" so I'm gonna speak up.
I remember vaguely THERE WAS A MECH WHO JUMP(JET)ED AND FIRED
AND SCORED A HIT. He was piloting a 55-ton Wraith armed with
1 Large Pulse Laser and 2 Medium Pulse Lasers. It was mentioned in
a novel called :"Binding Force" by Loren L. Coleman

The BattleMech’s computer overrode the normal throttle commands
and shunted plasma from the fusion engine through to the jump jets
in the Wraith’s back. The 55-ton ’Mech rose into the air on fiery plumes,
jumping out of the missiles’ path and arcing toward the north bank and
battle. While still in the air, Aris snapped off a quick shot from his large
pulse laser. He was rewarded with a solid hit against the Shadow Hawk’s
right torso. Armor melted and ran under the scarlet beam.

He did it more than once in the novel.

There was even mention of how he was dancing around an Atlas
(his mech is very fast, around 115 kph) popping shots at it while
avoiding complete weapons lock from the Atlas. That's why
when i saw that happening between light mechs and assault mechs
in this game, i was really entertained.

That is not the game mechanics it is the fiction(True Canon fiction) but by that we also have semi-intelligent bird men too. And the Death by Jump Jet, Kells using Jedi Mind tricks and Gauss doing glancing blows!

[Xeno Phalcon]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 May 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

That is not the game mechanics it is the fiction(True Canon fiction) but by that we also have semi-intelligent bird men too. And the Death by Jump Jet, Kells using Jedi Mind tricks and Gauss doing glancing blows!

Actually makes me very sad the BT books move away from the mystique stuff of the early novels. I think the last reference of anything other worldly was when a particular egotistical assassin got on the wrong side of a minor kurita prince.

[S p a n i a r d]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 May 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

That is not the game mechanics it is the fiction(True Canon fiction) but by that we also have semi-intelligent bird men too. And the Death by Jump Jet, Kells using Jedi Mind tricks and Gauss doing glancing blows!

You are missing the point fellow player.

Joseph Mallan, on 30 May 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

MechWarrior takes place in teh BattleTech Universe an in this Universe Mech are just not supposed to jump and fire at the same time.

I didn't play MW4 on-line and I didn't use Jump jets in the PvE game. So what failed Mechanics were used in the past should be corrected in the present.

You just said that in the Battletech Universe mechs are not supposed to jump
and fire at the same time.

I just showed you an excerpt from a Battletech novel, and to make things clear
those novels are essentially Battletech itself. It is the origin of them all. PC games
tabletop games, whatever kind of Mechwarrior game out there, cartoons, this is
their origin.

So if Mechwarrior Online is a game based on the Battletech Universe, then
firing while on jumpjets SHOULD BE POSSIBLE, not considering what kind of skill
or mechanics is required to do that and what is the resulting level of accuracy
of such a maneuver. IT IS POSSIBLE. The game creators (who made past games
in which jump jet firing is possible) and the battletech authors should have more say in the
"what should be" and "what should not be" area compared players like me and you

Edited by S p a n i a r d, 30 May 2013 - 09:59 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

We will just have to disagree Spaniard.

But to put in perspective One Character in 20 years of Novels could Jump and fire "PULSE lasers" (more accurate in TT) and hit his target. So which single player will be able to do what that Canon character did?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 30 May 2013 - 09:55 AM.

[S p a n i a r d]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 May 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

We will just have to disagree Spaniard.

But to put in perspective One Character in 20 years of Novels could Jump and fire "PULSE lasers" (more accurate in TT) and hit his target. So which single player will be able to do what that Canon character did?

There might be more than one

Remember i said "i vaguely remember"? Because of the 4 novels I've read
that was the only one i remembered. It was a long time ago when i read that.

There are LOTS of Battletech Novels.

If there was a true Battletech Guru around here i wouldn't be surprised
(actually i would say it is quite likely) that he will say that jump jet firing is
not rare within pilots in the Battletech Universe.

Edited by S p a n i a r d, 30 May 2013 - 10:09 AM.

[Coolant]

S p a n i a r d, on 30 May 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

You are missing the point fellow player.





You just said that in the Battletech Universe mechs are not supposed to jump
and fire at the same time.

I just showed you an excerpt from a Battletech novel, and to make things clear
those novels are essentially Battletech itself. It is the origin of them all. PC games
tabletop games, whatever kind of Mechwarrior game out there, cartoons, this is
their origin.

So if Mechwarrior Online is a game based on the Battletech Universe, then
firing while on jumpjets SHOULD BE POSSIBLE, not considering what kind of skill
or mechanics is required to do that and what is the resulting level of accuracy
of such a maneuver. IT IS POSSIBLE. The game creators (who made past games
in which jump jet firing is possible) and the battletech authors should have more say in the
"what should be" and "what should not be" area compared players like me and you

I don't care much about the lore, but it's actually you missing the point, as you gave a single novel as basis. If it was common place it would be all over the lore...it's not. Don't agree or disagree with whether jump-sniping should be in the game, just couldn't sit back and not say anything about an argument that lacks depth

[zraven7]

First of all, I've never had a problem with "poptarting". You utilize terrain, flank, destroy, go for coffee.

However, I'm really, really skeptical of how much cockpit shake will really change things. In fact, I think everyone upset with the outcome.

See, other first-person shooters have have mechanics to increase the difficulty of sniping for a while now. Primary of these are gun-sway and loss of peripheral vision while zoomed. These all basically did the same things in the games that they were introduced into.

They created a better class of sniper.

Yes, some went to other weapons, but some stuck with it. hey learned the intricacies of the game mechanics, and they learned to predict the sway. Things like "Quick-Scoping" "Air Snipes" and "No-Scoping" came about.

Look, even in real life, snipers train to do what they shouldn't be able to do. They live and breathe to make the impossible shot, and to do, with one rifle and a handful of bullets, what would have otherwise taken a whole platoon (and make no mistake, they save men's lives in the process. You meet a sniper in real life, you shake his hand and thank him. but back to the video game rant...). Now, I'm not directly comparing video-game snipers with real-life soldiers, but that drive for perfect perfection, to learn how to push the limits and make the system work for them, doesn't only appear in warriors.

You add shake, they'll learn to predict it and compensate. You make it non-viable to overheat in the air, they'll learn to get it to 99% every time.

Yeah, some you're gonna run off from the act. The others, though, you're just helping to train.

[S p a n i a r d]

Although i admit weapon convergence makes poptarters' life much easier.
And sometimes when i see a Spider flying around the place and firing
it makes me think of a poor man's Gundam Wing or something. I think
some kind of modification (I'm go for the convergence thing) is agreeable

[S p a n i a r d]

Coolant, on 30 May 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

I don't care much about the lore, but it's actually you missing the point, as you gave a single novel as basis. If it was common place it would be all over the lore...it's not. Don't agree or disagree with whether jump-sniping should be in the game, just couldn't sit back and not say anything about an argument that lacks depth

You are missing the point fellow player.

I just showed you an excerpt from a Battletech novel, and to make things clear
those novels are essentially Battletech itself. It is the origin of them all. PC games
tabletop games, whatever kind of Mechwarrior game out there, cartoons, this is
their origin.

So if Mechwarrior Online is a game based on the Battletech Universe, then
firing while on jumpjets SHOULD BE POSSIBLE, not considering what kind of skill
or mechanics is required to do that and what is the resulting level of accuracy
of such a maneuver. IT IS POSSIBLE. The game creators (who made past games
in which jump jet firing is possible) and the battletech authors should have more say in the
"what should be" and "what should not be" area compared players like me and you

Edited by S p a n i a r d, 30 May 2013 - 10:27 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

S p a n i a r d, on 30 May 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

There might be more than one

Remember i said "i vaguely remember"? Because of the 4 novels I've read
that was the only one i remembered. It was a long time ago when i read that.

There are LOTS of Battletech Novels.

If there was a true Battletech Guru around here i wouldn't be surprised
(actually i would say it is quite likely) that he will say that jump jet firing is
not rare within pilots in the Battletech Universe.

I have read "most" of the novels... Do you know there is one that a Dragoon Light Pilot did a Jump Somersault in a Wasp or Stinger? That is impossible by the rules of BattleTech also but it was in the novel. It is why Novels are considered somewhat slightly less canon than the rules.

[S p a n i a r d]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 May 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

I have read "most" of the novels... Do you know there is one that a Dragoon Light Pilot did a Jump Somersault in a Wasp or Stinger? That is impossible by the rules of BattleTech also but it was in the novel. It is why Novels are considered somewhat slightly less canon than the rules.

i laughed at that one. "jump somersault" haha

In the previous Battletech based games (Mechwarrior), jump jet firing was possible.
In the Battletech novels the origin of every mechwarrior game. jump jet firing is possible.
No reason why it shouldnt be in another Battletech based game - Mechwarrior Online

Edited by S p a n i a r d, 30 May 2013 - 10:34 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

I had to read it twice. IIRC Natasha reprimanded the pilot cause he didn't quite "Stick" the landing and crushed a food cart.

[Tarl Cabot]

And there was also the Battletech's Solaris VII boardgame on top of that..

[Joseph Mallan]

Tarl Cabot, on 30 May 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

And there was also the Battletech's Solaris VII boardgame on top of that..

Many of us do not talk about the "Not named" Game.

[zraven7]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 May 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

I have read "most" of the novels... Do you know there is one that a Dragoon Light Pilot did a Jump Somersault in a Wasp or Stinger? That is impossible by the rules of BattleTech also but it was in the novel. It is why Novels are considered somewhat slightly less canon than the rules.

Dude, they continually have pilots do ridiculous stuff in wasps and stingers. I remember in just the first novel, there were multiple instances of wasps doing forward rolls like they were in robot american gladiators.

[Joseph Mallan]

zraven7, on 30 May 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

Dude, they continually have pilots do ridiculous stuff in wasps and stingers. I remember in just the first novel, there were multiple instances of wasps doing forward rolls like they were in robot american gladiators.

... That wasn't decision at thunder rift... it's been nearly 25 years since I read that!

[Dawnstealer]

Vapor Trail, on 20 May 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

I assume that's an expression of Atlas glee.

Jump jets in TT were all about movement, and not about poptarting/hill-humping/cover. If you wanted cover, you had to do it the hard way.

Glad to see that MWO is going back its roots in this regard.

Can't reiterate that one hard enough: jump jets were/should have been all about mobility, not about ridiculous jump-sniping. I mean "Yay you" for manipulating the game, and hats off, but...c'mon...

Games where two sides would face off on either side of a ridge and jump-shoot, jump-shoot, jump-shoot, until the end of time were getting REAL boring.

I mean, sure - in a pinch while you're rumbling up into the sky, you can take a shot, but it should be hard - not the rock-steady platform it is now.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 30 May 2013 - 10:46 AM.

[Soy]

I like how jumping + shooting is manipulating the game. Mega Man was an exploiter! So was Mario! BOO

It's almost like this is your first game for some of you folks.

[zraven7]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 May 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

... That wasn't decision at thunder rift... it's been nearly 25 years since I read that!

I do believe it was. Good memory.