324 replies to this topic

[Noesis]

[ArmandTulsen]

This is so ****ing stupid.

"Pop-tarting" is a perfectly legitimate strategy. It's a smart way to get out of cover, fire, and then get back into cover.

[Karenai]

keith, on 25 May 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

then screen needs to shake all the time? unfair that it happens when it falls in air to not under JJs, or even while under JJs. y not while a mech walks? we can't have 1 without the other i say. its like the pot calling the kettle black

I do not realy get your stream of consciousness. Jump jetting is not walking. And yes I very much think that mechs falling down should experience tremendous screen shake. Every falling mech, also those falling down from hills. You should be fighting with your controlls trying to keep your mech from falling on its face. But because we cannot simulate that, I could live with screen shake. Should you have tried to walk over some small pebbels ingame, instead of jumpjetting your way trough the world, you would have noticed that there is a pretty substential targeting shake associated with running over things. Try it sometimes.

Edited by Karenai, 26 May 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

ArmandTulsen, on 25 May 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

This is so ****ing stupid.

"Pop-tarting" is a perfectly legitimate strategy. It's a smart way to get out of cover, fire, and then get back into cover.

Dropping 8 in the ghetto is a perfectly legit strategy, too, until it suddenly isn't anymore.

[ArmandTulsen]

GOD!

Is there anything people won't whine about?

[LockeJaw]

ArmandTulsen, on 26 May 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

GOD!

Is there anything people won't whine about?

This could be a new working example of Irony in action.

[Victor Morson]

Flyby215, on 20 May 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

Possible prediction: since poptarters and PPC boats are so successful, these guys probably have an Elo higher than where they should be. After the upcming patch, do you think we'll see a lot of complaining about people who claim to be good suddenly having wicked loss streaks?

Reality: We swap back from Highlanders to Stalkers and hull down with high mounted guns instead.

Oh, how the reality of balance will change!

[Ellen Ripley]

Vassago Rain, on 25 May 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

But stalkers are fair. You can actually do something about them, and they need to at least partially expose themselves to hurt you.

What a stupid thing to say. I guess people will come up with anything these days to rage against things they can't cope with due to lack of skill. It has to be lack of skill, cause as others have already pointed out:

Wispsy, on 25 May 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

You do realise a highlander has to expose far more of himself to shoot you then the stalker who literally sticks its arms above a random point on a hill for around half a second or less? Jumping just gives more freedom in positioning as any wall will do for cover to snipe behind.

The sad part about it is that the devs actually listen to people who come up with such nonsense "whine for the sake of whining"-crap, as one can tell by the fact that they plan on implementing jump jet shake.



Btw.: If you support jump jet shake distorting the ability to aim, you should never ever speak of realism in the context of this game or use realism as an argument to support a game related suggestion of yours again, as stabilized guns have been around in RL for quite some time.

To be clear: I personally don't really care about realism or table top rules in the context of a MechWarrior PC game, since I think both are rarely applicable when it comes to the game's balance. I only mentioned the realism thing, cause there seems to be a really large common intersection of the "mimimi - not realistic" and the "mimimi - nerf cause I can't cope with it" crowds.

[Kitane]

Stabilized weapons were reintroduced in Inner Sphere mechs in 3062 with rediscovered targeting computers.

The neuro-helmet assists with stabilization of a mech frame, but weapons are completely independent subsystems, mounted on moving chasis and lacking any kind of stabilization.

Our mechs do not have stabilized weapons. Only Clan mechs do at this time..

http://www.sarna.net...geting_Computer

Edited by Kitane, 30 May 2013 - 06:59 AM.

[topgun505]

And when, exactly, was the last time someone strapped some JATO bottles to a 70ish ton M1A1 MBT and hurled it 50m into the air??

While it may have a stabilized gun im willing to bet it would have a hard time coping with that.

Ellen Ripley, on 30 May 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

What a stupid thing to say. I guess people will come up with anything these days to rage against things they can't cope with due to lack of skill. It has to be lack of skill, cause as others have already pointed out:


The sad part about it is that the devs actually listen to people who come up with such nonsense "whine for the sake of whining"-crap, as one can tell by the fact that they plan on implementing jump jet shake.



Btw.: If you support jump jet shake distorting the ability to aim, you should never ever speak of realism in the context of this game or use realism as an argument to support a game related suggestion of yours again, as stabilized guns have been around in RL for quite some time.

To be clear: I personally don't really care about realism or table top rules in the context of a MechWarrior PC game, since I think both are rarely applicable when it comes to the game's balance. I only mentioned the realism thing, cause there seems to be a really large common intersection of the "mimimi - not realistic" and the "mimimi - nerf cause I can't cope with it" crowds.

[Hobietime]

topgun505, on 30 May 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

And when, exactly, was the last time someone strapped some JATO bottles to a 70ish ton M1A1 MBT and hurled it 50m into the air??

While it may have a stabilized gun im willing to bet it would have a hard time coping with that.

Edit: So apparently gifs don't work on the forums. Mute recommended.

Edited by Hobietime, 30 May 2013 - 07:17 AM.

[Tombstoner]

The targeting computer is not going to be part of the game. The mechanics dont allow for it.

All this pin point accuracy and no ****** movement while moving is because the convergence system worked as intended and looked f-ing stupid. so stupid in fact PGI decided to scrap the idea set the rate of convergence to extremely high levels such that weapons focus on target instantly... this is intended by PGI. convergence was deliberate broken/removed by PGI with nothing put in its place.

The game needs some form of player controlled targeting error more than just point ,click, dead center of target @ 2000m.
The lack of player controllable targeting error is harming weapon balance and the resulting meta game/tactise used.

[Hayashi]

Novakaine, on 20 May 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

.
Ask any astronaut strapped to a Saturn V rocket.

I'm afraid none of them will be able to respond. Strapped in is one thing, strapped to is another...

[Kitane]

Hayashi, on 30 May 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

I'm afraid none of them will be able to respond. Strapped in is one thing, strapped to is another...

Give us time!

One day, somebody (stupid) crazy enough will ride strapped to a rocket all the way up. The whole sequence will be available on Sensetube in full 5-sense coverage, toned down for safety, ofc.

[MustrumRidcully]

Kitane, on 30 May 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

Give us time!

One day, somebody (stupid) crazy enough will ride strapped to a rocket all the way up. The whole sequence will be available on Sensetube in full 5-sense coverage, toned down for safety, ofc.

It's called SimSense, and this is Battletech, not Shadowrun.

[Xenishi]

Lupus Aurelius, on 20 May 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

Disclaimer: Not a poptarter

Anything that removes a legitimate tactic from gameplay is nothing to celebrate. I don't like serial alpha poptarters either, but the ability to rapidly clear an obstacle, deliver damage, and disappear behind cover is a legitimate tactic. It's no different than a Stalker or Jager sticking out only a small proportion of it's chassis to fire on an opponent and dip rapidly back under cover.

Balancing is not removal. Balancing is not even about making things equal. Balancing is about the ability to counter a tactic. Jumpsnipers are vulnerable to the same weapons they use, and then some. PPC, Gauss, even AC2 fire. Some crosshair shake should exist to make long range jumpsniping more difficult, but in sucha way that in certain circumstances it is still viable.

That's the problem with most of the people whining on the forums. Nerf this, stop that, because they don't like it, it's not their playstyle, and also when they lack the skill to counter it. Everyone is not a winner, everyone is not equal, there will always be someone with faster reflexes, faster analysis of a situation, sneakier, whatever. Game balance means that there are counters, and counters to the counters, and that people have to learn to use them, modify their gameplay with those tools provided. Not makiing all weapons and mechs equal to each other. That creates a dull and stagnant pvp environment.

This. I have started surfing the forums because the in game stuff goes one way then the other and I wanted to see why the devs are just bending every patch to change the mechanics of the game. There is a simple fact that the universe offers a chassis and you can mount whatever fits. This is what makes a Mech yours.

This isn't Modern Warfare, it isn't F1 racing. It's Mech Warrior. Learn to play, learn to customize, and keep the major changes down to a minimum. Playing well takes time.

[Joseph Mallan]

MechWarrior takes place in teh BattleTech Universe an in this Universe Mech are just not supposed to jump and fire at the same time.

I didn't play MW4 on-line and I didn't use Jump jets in the PvE game. So what failed Mechanics were used in the past should be corrected in the present.

[Asakara]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 May 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

True, but By the physics of the CBT Universe, Jumping and firing do not happen together. So being able to do so in game is... well just wrong. I had fun shooting clay pigeons but if this gets "fixed" then I will mumble less.*shrug*

Poor spiders.

[Joseph Mallan]

Spiders were meant to run like crazy shot if necessary and jump away!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 30 May 2013 - 08:23 AM.

[Livewyr]

Lupus, being vulnerable to your own tactic/equipment isn't balanced. It's an arms race.

(The U.S. and Soviets didn't start developing more effective conventional weapons in the 50s to rival the other one's Nuke arsenal.. they started going crazy on their own Nuke Arsenal... and even infusing it with conventional warfare styles like the Davy Crockett)

A brawler is balanced- you fight them on their own terms OR you simply out range them.
A missile boat is balanced- you bring missiles and fight them on their own terms OR you take cover when fired upon, bring AMS, and you get close to them.
An Alpha Sniper (or Jump Sniper) is not balanced- The only way to effectively beat them, is to be them.

(People using team-work as a balancing "mechanic" often forget that when your team is using teamwork (2+ players) to combat their one enemy mech, you've just shifted the imbalanced 1v1 to numbers 8v8 became 6v7 or 5v7)
It needs to be balanced against its own USAGE.

Incidentally, the same flaw with ECM balance.