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So Poptarting's Officially Getting Killed.


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#281 Dawnstealer

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 11:05 AM

View PostSoy, on 30 May 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

I like how jumping + shooting is manipulating the game. Mega Man was an exploiter! So was Mario! BOO

It's almost like this is your first game for some of you folks.

Because it's flavor of the month stuff. It's taking advantage of an oversight in the programming to get more kills. So it's not a skill thing: you basically get a free elevator out of cover to take a few accurate shots from your stable platform and then dropped rapidly back into cover.

I think shooting while jumping's a valid tactic in a pinch, but it shouldn't be easy. And I'm not talking out my butt here: I piloted a Spider and had a blast doing EXACTLY that, but every single time I did it, I realized I was doing it because the physics were ridiculously lax.

I had a harder time STOPPING than I did rising in the air in a controlled blast of fusion engine venting and firing off an alpha at an enemy. It didn't even cost me all that much in heat. Just ZOOOOM-PEW-LAND.

People should be able to keep jump-shooting: fine. But there should be a lot more rumble and rock and it should be HARD. And kick the heat up a little bit so that 3PCC/Gauss Highlander has to make a tactical decision before hop-shoot-hop-shoot-hop-shoot...

Back to your comment, this isn't Mario jumping at a question mark, this is Mario able to completely ignore gaps in the floor because when they were programming his walk, they forgot that "walking over gaps" was supposed to be something of a barrier/either-or type thing.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 30 May 2013 - 11:09 AM.


#282 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 11:14 AM

View Postzraven7, on 30 May 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

I do believe it was. Good memory.

Only things I remember from ha book was Carlyle beating a Marauder with a shadowhawk by making it run in circles case it couldn't fire to the side with full weapons, and Carlyle's Wife (to be) Coming out of her Mech in Panties only! I was a young buck of an Infantry Marine back then.

#283 zraven7

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 11:16 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 30 May 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

Only things I remember from ha book was Carlyle beating a Marauder with a shadowhawk by making it run in circles case it couldn't fire to the side with full weapons, and Carlyle's Wife (to be) Coming out of her Mech in Panties only! I was a young buck of an Infantry Marine back then.

It was panties and a light shirt. I'm slowly making my way through the series right now, though people keep throwing other things at me to watch and/or read. That book kinda made me want Locusts in this game.

#284 Soy

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 11:22 AM

View PostDawnstealer, on 30 May 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

[...]So it's not a skill thing:[...]

[...]I think shooting while jumping's a valid tactic in a pinch, but it shouldn't be easy.[...]


I see.......
.............
..........
wait nope, can't see **** captain

#285 zraven7

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 11:58 AM

So, I'm curious, what about light mechs? How does everyone feel about them shooting while jumping? Because if we can't do that, I'm switching to Commando's and calling it a day.

#286 MustrumRidcully

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 12:14 PM

View Postzraven7, on 30 May 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

So, I'm curious, what about light mechs? How does everyone feel about them shooting while jumping? Because if we can't do that, I'm switching to Commando's and calling it a day.

The little tidbits we have suggest that the jump jet shake will be stronger on heavier mechs then on light mechs. So maybe you won't have to go Commando.

That said. I haven't seen a Commando mech in a while. It might really be it's been replaced with the Spider. Maybe no surprise. SRMs suck now, and if you want a PPC, 5 extra tons is a good thing to have. And jump jets.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 30 May 2013 - 12:15 PM.


#287 BlackDrakon

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 12:18 PM

I got to page 6 without any real reference on when or what PGI will do to kill poptarting in the game as the OP exclame in the topic and the others have followed.

Any of you ppl who have posted countless of posts in this topic has one official reference with a link or number of podcast and min that they talk about "killing poptarts"?

#288 Livewyr

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 12:28 PM

View PostBlackDrakon, on 30 May 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

I got to page 6 without any real reference on when or what PGI will do to kill poptarting in the game as the OP exclame in the topic and the others have followed.

Any of you ppl who have posted countless of posts in this topic has one official reference with a link or number of podcast and min that they talk about "killing poptarts"?


Rumor has it: "Jumpjet Shake"

#289 BlackDrakon

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 12:34 PM

So, whoever started the topic has made it to 16 pages based on a rumor?

OMFG...I dont even know why I spent my time reading the first 6 pages in the first place....

#290 Trauglodyte

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 01:19 PM

It isn't a rumor. One of the devs stated on the webcast that they're going to add camera shake while using JJs and that the level of shake will be based on the weight of the mech in question. That being said, and I posted it several pages ago, poptarts don't shoot on the way up. They jump up, hit their high point, and then fire on the way down. All this will do is weed out the bad poptarters that tried tossing out several shots as they went up and down.

#291 Vodrin Thales

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 01:21 PM

View PostBlackDrakon, on 30 May 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

So, whoever started the topic has made it to 16 pages based on a rumor?

OMFG...I dont even know why I spent my time reading the first 6 pages in the first place....


Check out the No Guts, No Galaxy podcast Black. It was in their latest one.

#292 Pyrrho

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 03:00 PM

To all those who started using the "skill-less shaving" analogy. Do you use safety razors or straight blades?

#293 Petroshka

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 03:06 PM

View Post8100d 5p4tt3r, on 20 May 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:


Mechs can not fire while jump jets are lit ...Seeing as Jump Jets are supposed to be just for movement... ?




like

#294 CMDR Sunset Shimmer

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 03:39 PM

View PostLupus Aurelius, on 20 May 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

Disclaimer: Not a poptarter

Anything that removes a legitimate tactic from gameplay is nothing to celebrate.


Agreed, however Poptarting is exploiting several broken systems in a way that is un-intended.

#295 Sam Slade

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 05:22 PM

Wait and se what the heatscale anti-boat mechanic does..

AND BUFF SRMS!!!! If we can brawl them to bits then Snipers will at least need to work with their team.

#296 NRP

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 08:44 PM

I think there will be far more whining from light mech pilots, who will have a much tougher time coping with this change than high alpha snipers.

#297 MustrumRidcully

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:28 PM

View PostPyrrho, on 30 May 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

To all those who started using the "skill-less shaving" analogy. Do you use safety razors or straight blades?

Safety Razors: Convergence
Straight Blades: No Convergence
Rusty Blades: RNG

#298 Neokenfu

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 12:08 AM

View PostLupus Aurelius, on 20 May 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

Disclaimer: Not a poptarter

Anything that removes a legitimate tactic from gameplay is nothing to celebrate. I don't like serial alpha poptarters either, but the ability to rapidly clear an obstacle, deliver damage, and disappear behind cover is a legitimate tactic. It's no different than a Stalker or Jager sticking out only a small proportion of it's chassis to fire on an opponent and dip rapidly back under cover.

Balancing is not removal. Balancing is not even about making things equal. Balancing is about the ability to counter a tactic. Jumpsnipers are vulnerable to the same weapons they use, and then some. PPC, Gauss, even AC2 fire. Some crosshair shake should exist to make long range jumpsniping more difficult, but in sucha way that in certain circumstances it is still viable.

That's the problem with most of the people whining on the forums. Nerf this, stop that, because they don't like it, it's not their playstyle, and also when they lack the skill to counter it. Everyone is not a winner, everyone is not equal, there will always be someone with faster reflexes, faster analysis of a situation, sneakier, whatever. Game balance means that there are counters, and counters to the counters, and that people have to learn to use them, modify their gameplay with those tools provided. Not makiing all weapons and mechs equal to each other. That creates a dull and stagnant pvp environment.


I had a lot of respect for you before that post and now I take it all back!

Have you gone up against team after team in 8 man that are 6 Poptarts and 2 Ravens? I have, and its not a game worth playing.

Clearly your arrogant BS comments will having backing by fact(not likely).

So you tell me whats a good value proposition when approaching say SIGMA on River City, they have 6 poptarts in loose cover on top of the building with 2 ravens scouting?

Guess what genius, the best way to counter is to play the waiting game and force them to attack. If you enjoy 7-15 mins of waiting game before anything happens and then still want to wait before you actually start playing the freaking game...keep making your claims Poptarts aren't OP, give us your BS L2play, and keep the garbage spewing from your keyboard!!!

I lead 8 mans twice per week at minimum and the meta ruins many fun parts of the game: scouting(leg goes vs poptart your screwed), mediums(gauss/ppc/ppc fly in a tight pattern to destroy body parts), Brawling(try to close distance in the SIGMA scenario EVEN with the whole team and see what happens), and I dunno....MOVING AROUND!!!

This is why people hate freaking 8 man and recoil like I slapped them when I try to recruit on NA Comstar(to be competitive if something is so OP you have to adopt it).

So PGI, why have so many mechs when you are so bad at kit balancing only a few are viable?

If you don't know how bad this is simply try it yourself like I did(2xPPC or ERPPC & Gauss on Highlander or Fract 3D) and laugh at how easy mode the game just became. The first time I tried it with no weapon groups set I killed 4 people. I can't adequetely describe how much harder it is to finish people with any of the brawler setups(including AC40).

As a leader now I'm stuck adopting crappy tactics instead of grand maneuvers, forcing builds on people, leading much duller drops, because you can't get your crap together!!!!

We shall see if this patch does anything to change the meta. it's been the same for 3+ patches now.

#299 Lykaon

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 02:43 AM

View PostsilentD11, on 20 May 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

Nope it won't. Because the current meta of running as a blob to TDM or setting up a TDM firing line instead of actually capturing just means people will move to the next FOTM build and milk the crap out of that. As long as people are playing with kills as their priority there will always be an OP build to move to.

I've been through a fastback 4p, gaussapult, streakcat, splatcat, DDC-ECM, 3L, boomcat, 3d, LRM armageddon, all when they were at their top and the OP build. And since people insist on just killing, I'll get whatever is OP next because as long as it's about kills and not caps there will always be something broken to stomp people with.

Nerf whatever, as long as we have a TDM meta there will always be something broken for us to move to. I'll always be able to min max entirely off of killing and killing alone. It's just a matter of moving from mech to mech, but there will always be something that's the most lethal for me to run the crap out of.



Yep poptarts will go the way of the dodo but blobs of high alpha strike mechs spamming whatever allows the highest alpha strike values that month with continue.

We will not see poptart highlanders and phracts but we will see the jumpjets reduced in favor of more alpha strike power to run with the blob.

#300 Wispsy

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 03:37 AM

View PostSam Slade, on 30 May 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

Wait and se what the heatscale anti-boat mechanic does..

AND BUFF SRMS!!!! If we can brawl them to bits then Snipers will at least need to work with their team.


That will affect mass PPC stalkers, mediums and light mechs the most. Poptarters only use 2-3 of a single weapon and the Gauss causes no heat.

If it does not count PPC and ERPPC as one (who knows with PGI small details are often overlooked) then it will basically have no effect on poptarts at all.

Edited by Wispsy, 31 May 2013 - 03:39 AM.






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