183 replies to this topic

[frag85]

Lets see how things play out, but initial impressions is this is a very powerful module; to the point where its a must-have. There is also no way to counter (i.e. a counter module like light step; advanced leg actuators that reduce the hard impact of a mech's leg/foot, making it less detectable by seismic sensors). I think 400m is a bit far, on the smaller maps it makes it nearly impossible to sneak up on someone or get away. I have it upgraded and it makes it stupid easy to know when and where an enemy is going to pop out.

[Jakob Knight]

frag85, on 23 May 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Lets see how things play out, but initial impressions is this is a very powerful module; to the point where its a must-have. There is also no way to counter (i.e. a counter module like light step; advanced leg actuators that reduce the hard impact of a mech's leg/foot, making it less detectable by seismic sensors). I think 400m is a bit far, on the smaller maps it makes it nearly impossible to sneak up on someone or get away. I have it upgraded and it makes it stupid easy to know when and where an enemy is going to pop out.

Well, the counter is to either stop moving, jump, stay out of range, or kill the sensing unit. As I said, alot like ECM, and we've seen how much the Devs have adjusted that. On the flip side of the argument, if they do a major reduction in capabilities, the people who have purchased the module will have grounds to complain that the product delivered is not the product they purchased (which may explain part of why the Devs refuse to touch the ECM module now), so some kind of refund would be in order.

More likely, we'll see 'counters' introduced. What fun that will be, eh?

Lastly, remember this is as much for Scouting units as against them, so reducing the range might do as much harm as good.

[Doxylicious]

Advanced Seismic Sensor is TO overpowered and here is wy:

Personal i vote for a removal of the entire module and the advanced version


-The module renders the 360 target module useless. (the seismic sensor does basicly the same but now also shows enemys behind rocks/buildings exc.


-There is no need to have situational awareness anymore. It is basicly a rader that can see trough buildings, rocks exc.


-U can not be detected when not moving..........BUT... a mech that stands still is a DEAD mech. its not possible to camp some place. Camping is provoked because of this module.


-Not possible to sneak up behind a target and fire him in his back/rear. U never know if he has this module equiped and he probly has it since its to dam good.

-There is no need to check the tunnels for enemy in Forest Colony and Frozen City because u can stand on the other side and see via the seismic sensor if ppl are running trough the tunnel.

So in my eyes and probly many others its rather gamebreaking and i advice it to remove it.
I see no way how to tweak this module to make it not overpowered

[PropagandaWar]

I don't own it so I haven't seen it in action. if its a blactual blip and not a arrow wouldnt friendlies show up as blips too (I'd assume computing would Null friendlies but maybe not)? If a mech can be picked up from 1200 meters away wouldnt ballistc, missile, ppc and arty impact on the ground throw that off as well?

[TOGSolid]

Reposting something from a different Seismic thread so that it gets put in the right place:

Quote

I've got the advanced version and it is just way too good for what it does. Game breaking? Nah, but it is stupidly powerful. Either enemy mechs should only be detected if they're going at a specific throttle percentage (i.e. more than something like 50%), or your seismic sensor gets bad readings if you're going too fast. Both would make sense since either A.) the enemy isn't making enough noise (they're essentially walking to stay off radar B.) you're creating too much noise (like a sub cavitating and causing their towed array to get messed up). Another potential fix would be to have it so that if the target has an equal to or higher throttle rating than you then they show up, though this may be needlessly complicated.

[Dr Shockter]

I certainly agree that the range of the advanced module is entirely too far, and changes the tactics employed in the game. It is definately a good idea, though, as I find myself avoiding that "peeking over the hill and getting creamed" moment more often (i.e. frozen city around the plane). In the real world, one might turn on their external mic and be able to pick up sounds of the enemy mechs over the ridge or in the distance. A good idea might be change make the detection range (inversely) proportional to the detected mech's weight, speed, and maybe even the terrain on which it stands. I feel like a cone is a bad idea, as I believe we have the technology today to have 360 degree detection. A good example of this sort of detection system is the owl, as owls hunt by sound and not sight (see http://www.owlpages....y&title=hearing). Going with the owl example, say there is one sensor in each of the mech's foot, and so the entire system can tell direction (but maybe only gives an interval of range), and it only works when the mech is standing still.

[Homeless Bill]

Seismic Sensor is a great idea, but the range makes it overpowered compared to other modules. Before Seismic, I wouldn't bother equipping modules unless it was competitive 8-man practice; now, I don't drop without it.

You guys need to decide how powerful you want modules to be. Right now, some of them are completely useless and others are must-have. Since they've been stated to be the "endgame," I would prefer all the less desirable ones get a buff to make them as sexy as Seismic. Otherwise, you need to nerf Seismic Sensor's range.

Current State of Modules:
Seismic: Amazing - great to have in any role.
Coolshot: Rocks - basically a must-have for competitive matches.
Target Decay: Nice for scouts and LRMs.

Sensor Range: Nice to have, but often useless.

Capture Accelerator: Worth having if you like capping, but nothing superb.
360 Target Retention: Nice for being cheesy with streaks - meh otherwise.

Target Info: Underwhelming.
Air/Artillery Strike: Hilariously ineffective.
Zoom: So, so very broken and useless.

[HarmAssassin]

Seriously, they need to take seismic sensors out of the game. Can you say, "wall hack?". So much for using cover / concealment to sneak around the enemy...

[Mrllamaface]

In effect in the current implementation seismic sensor and the change to SRM flight path there is no reason not to play a jump sniper.

I would suggest that the sensor range be changed, I think 150 max to allow people to at least get into brawl range.

I also suggest that the sensor not work if a mech equipped with it is moving.

Edited by Mrllamaface, 23 May 2013 - 03:35 PM.

[MavRCK]

I love this module.

But here's the thing... it dumbs down the game.

A good pilot evading and using ecm / terrain to get away is countered by a module.

It lowers the skill level, the tactical complexity, the teamwork needed...

It rewards.. a module.. and penalizes smart play.

Options:

1) remove it

or

2) make it like ECM - take up crits, weight and can be destroyed.

TL;DR - It's bad for the game; seismic sensor should be removed.

[Lokisonn]

I don't have the module yet but looking at whats been said, maybe it should be a deployable module instead. You get 1-2 sensors that you can drop that last for maybe 5 mins. All friendly or enemy vibrations should be picked up. Friendlies that register on normal rader can be overlayed and not displayed. Seems more plausable that having the sensors mounted on a mech which is itself generating earth shattering kabooms.

Since the sensors are remote, a range reduction could be in order. Might also be nice if the sensors themselves can be destroyed but make it small and hard to hit (visual detection only?)


Would be interesting what would happen though if it was dropped in water or on top of a building. Needs more thought in those situations.

Edited by Lokisonn, 23 May 2013 - 05:24 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

I have to say I find it very handy.

[Seddrik]

Over powered. Takes away from a HUGE portion of the fun in sneaking and in having to be situationally aware of that sneaky little guy trying to core your back.

I'm sure in the future there are lots of things that could be... but that would rob us of a great gaming experience. Who would need pilots in a mech in the future? Wouldn't robots be automated? Etc etc. But this is a game... for fun. So please consider whether such a module really helps the gaming experience or detracts from it. This one, by far, makes tactical close range fighting... meh. I haven't played the last 2 days because of this and LRM dominance. Bring back brawling please...

Edited by Seddrik, 26 May 2013 - 05:47 PM.

[White Bear 84]

LT Satisfactory, on 21 May 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

this is RIDICULOUS. It's borderline cheating. Perfect example on tourmaline - could tell the last enemy mech was on Ep for conquest and we were charging for him but had no line of sight. he finished his cap before we saw him and could either pick to go towards sig or gamma. He was faster than me or the aws I was with. normally, i would have ran at ep and tried to find him and get lucky with a laser shot, but with this sensor, i was clearly able to tell he was going towards sig well before I could see him and was able to cut him off and kill him.

ridiculous. at first i thought this would just be a tool for poptarts (since god knows PGI has a hrd-on for them and hates lights) but there are sooo many instances this is just flagrantly bad.

Of course, since PGI is determined to kill off lights, this sensor is basically for scouting now. No reason to go around that corner - you already know there are 3 mechs waiting around it.

Get a massage.. ..chill out.

Ironic you would say that PGI hates lights given they had dominated a large part of the game until recently and poptarting is generally speaking a relatively new thing in the broader spectrum of player habits and builds.

[Asmosis]

HRR Insanity, on 21 May 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Seismic is now a required module on all 'Mechs. Localized radar (for moving 'Mechs) is far too good not to have unless there are countermeasures (which will also be required) or unless the range is decreased by 50% or more.

A balanced version may be <100m range with max <150m range with enhanced version. Or have a substantial uncertainty which is distant dependent (up to 50m positional error at 100m, up to 200m positional error at 200m, etc).

Otherwise, you might as well just add MW4 'see-through-walls' radar back to the game.

EDIT: On second thought... why would seismic sensors work when YOUR 'Mech was moving? Make seismic sensors work only when stationary or moving slowly; alternatively, increase the uncertainty of enemy position as a function of your own speed.

New mech equipment, Hush Puppies. 2 tonnes and must be mounted in leg slots (both).

But seriously, situational awareness can replace this module 70-80% of the time. If your paying attention its extremely difficult to be snuck up on regardless of what radar is showing. The people who are smart enough to have the GXP handy and get this ... probably dont need it that much.

Edited by Asmosis, 23 May 2013 - 07:32 PM.

[Billygoat]

Probably one of the most ill-conceived modules yet implemented in this game. If this kind of thing is your plan for modules being "end game" then... I don't even know. Tell your design staff to lay off the bongs or something because they are not exactly firing on all thrusters lately.

All this means is that bloat-boats and LRM boats are not even really vulnerable to flanking maneuvers by light/medium lances at all anymore if they have this module, especially in its upgraded state. That kind of maneuver has, on most maps, been of only dubious viability for months anyway, but this really seals it. I guess it's to counteract those 3-second Jenners and their deadly ninja partners, the 6MG Spiders from insta-coring Atlas LRM boats and Highlander poptarts in dishonourable freebirth ambushes.

IMO, if you want to have something like this in game, it needs to be a piece of equipment with, at the very least, a reasonable weight cost (like BAP). Maybe even start limiting stuff like this to an Electronics hardpoint or something. Then begin to reconsider your whole plan for what modules should be and do, because the design that is becoming apparent for module is... bad.

[Vassago Rain]

It's disgustingly OP.
I say this as the kind of player it's aimed at.

It's not that it has X detection range. It's that it's a wallhack, and would be OP no matter the range.

But my atlas thanks you.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 24 May 2013 - 06:50 AM.

[TOGSolid]

Guys, the range is fine, it's the detection sensitivity that is really out of whack. If you nerf the range then it'll only serve to make the module useless because it'll be detecting at a joke of a range and do nothing to solve it's "guaranteed wallhack" problem. Making a fix to the sensitivity introduces an element of skill to the module since you now have to either manage your throttle, or wonder if an enemy is just walking around the corner under, oh say, 50% throttle.

[Vassago Rain]

TOGSolid, on 23 May 2013 - 10:51 PM, said:

Guys, the range is fine, it's the detection sensitivity that is really out of whack. If you nerf the range then it'll only serve to make the module useless because it'll be detecting at a joke of a range and do nothing to solve it's "guaranteed wallhack" problem. Making a fix to the sensitivity introduces an element of skill to the module since you now have to either manage your throttle, or wonder if an enemy is just walking around the corner under, oh say, 50% throttle.

So it's okay to detect assaults, but not lights? Where's the fairness?

Oh, right - there is no fairness. It's a wallhack. You can't balance it. I'm having lots of fun with it, but I know how broken it is. Everybody else will agree with me on this.

[Shakespeare]

I dunno yet,  In well-organized groups (4v4 + Pugs, or 8-man) I've found it forcing more measured play.. We round a corner, and 'hear' 5 mechs in the valley, and they hear us - now what?  back up? Go all in? attempt to divide them?
On the other hand, it's absolutely giving away flankers a few meters too soon.  400 out is enough for an entire team to reform on advancing mechs, all because 1 person has a module and says on comms "5 contacts seismic out of cave".  Now, I don't mind it as a function, since without it our LoS radar is more than happy to 'erase' mechs you should easily be able to track just because you twisted away from them for .8 seconds...but it's definitely hurting the sneak.  In open or broken terrain, I don't see it as an overwhelming advantage (per the raven chasing example above, it probably only gave you about 3-5 seconds head start.  You'd have seen him and corrected quickly either way), but in areas with 'hidden' paths that must usually be scouted (caves/ 'jenner highway', colony pass, etc.), it's such a dead givaway that it becomes very high risk to try ever.

Edited by Shakespeare, 24 May 2013 - 12:20 AM.