181 replies to this topic

[Mawai]

The advanced seismic module is the best module I have ever purchased.

It increases situational awareness by an order of magnitude ... easily allowing you to see when folks are going to encircle you or showing opportunities to catch that lone enemy mech unawares. It is particularly useful on maps with limited sight lines. In among buildings you can now tell when an opposing mech happens to be on an adjacent street and how many friends he has with him. On the canyon map you can tell when an opponent is on the other side of the ridge.

The module only works when the opponent is moving ... this may cause folks to develop strategies like stopping to cover positions (an Atlas in the tunnel on Frozen City did this while I was following the seismic signature of his team mate moving through the tunnel ... caught me by surprise and I circled back ... but he didn't show up when he wasn't moving ... and it was an ecm mech so it wasn't showing on regular scans either).

Some times the module has proven useful ...

- detect motion on other side of ridge on frozen city
- detect motion in tunnel on frozen city
- detect motion in tunnel on forest colony
- detect motion on the other side of the ship on forest colony

The real advantage is in not having to peek to see if anyone is on the other side of the obstacle ... assuming they are moving ... the down side will come when everyone is equipped with one.

As much as I enjoy the module, and although it is not game breaking, the module IS overpowered in my opinion and I have no idea how it made it through play testing ... the testers are just not offering up honest opinions if they think this is balanced.

[Suprentus]

Some of you guys really need to get a grip. There's nothing wrong with seismic sensor. It doesn't dumb anything down, nor does it nerf any one chassis. Wanna know how I conduct an ambush around a corner now? I stay still. The enemy thinks the coast is clear, and I light up his face with lasers when he comes around the corner. Instant gratification. Just because you can't think on your toes doesn't mean there's nothing there to think about.

[Farpenoodle]

The point is it needs to be brought back in line with the other modules. What I like about the module system is there aren't any real "clear choice" modules. Most of them add something interesting to fine tune your playstyle but are nowhere near overpowered. This is the first module that is clearly head and shoulders above the rest. If you can afford it and don't take it you're ******* up. It doesn't even add any tonnage.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Yeah, this **** needs nerfs. It's too good, and I honestly feel bad using it.

But I wont stop using it, because that would be stupid. And thats exactly why it needs to be brought back in line.

[Suprentus]

Sure, every advantage in the game is unfair and unbalanced. It doesn't matter if it makes gameplay more dynamic or anything. If anyone gives someone an advantage, nerf it to hell so you can't even notice it's there.

[Farpenoodle]

Personally, I like the way LOS and radar works in this game. It feels closer to what is described in the novels and generates actual "oh ****" moments.

I don't want it to be useless. But if you're going to make something so good that it might as well be mandatory you should just straight up give it to everyone and not have it take up a module slot. I think the original distance of 270 is a good number to make it still useful but not overwhelmingly so if you want a really easy fix. And a number of the other proposed nerfs in this thread are also pretty good.

[Kaspirikay]

If there are no downsides, it's too good.

[aniviron]

Kaspirikay, on 22 May 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

If there are no downsides, it's too good.

All the modules are like this. Tell me, what are the downsides to increased sensor range, extra target time, faster target info, 360 target, base cap...? Every module functions like this. This one is just better.

[Lynx7725]

I'm thinking, the idea behind the module is great, but the amount of precise info is a bit too much. I mean, it goes down to "this many mechs moving around with x m (size of blip) in this location". Makes decision making a wee bit too easy.

What I feel it should be, is that it should tell me "there is some groundshaking stuff within this area (x m, size of blip), but I can't tell you how many mechs, friendly or not, and whether it's an oversized squirrel or not".

So.. expand the size of the blip so that at least 2 to 3 mechs can exist within it (so a group of mechs clustering around an Atlas, for example, would show as a single blip), show friendly mech seismic activities (so a brawl becomes an indistinct blob), and have maps that inherently creates seismic events.

This way, the module is not useless, but doesn't provide the fidelity of information that makes it practically a must-have.

[Zaptruder]

Seismic is a great great module in helping to redress some of the tactical woes of brawlers (i.e. uncertainty of what you are moving into or what is coming to you).

But it is clearly far and away better than any other module, in providing the kind of functionality that you'd expect to have to weaken your mech to get (i.e. as a piece of equipment).

A range reduction is probably a good way to bring its functionality and necessity back in line with other components and modules - 300m for adv and 150 for std. If that still proves to be too much, then 250m and 150m. You can't reduce it too much, because one must remember that the area covered scales down exponentially with each meter of radius decreased.

Or have the dichotomy of movement/non movement providing less/more range.

Even the seismic/normal radar option is quite a good way of doing it - although I'd suggest leaving out the time delay on toggling until the non-time delay version was proven to be insufficient. Otherwise, it'd be too violent a swing from useful to useless.

Personally, I'd like to see the viability of other modules brought more in line with seismic. It's great that it can enhance the functionality of mechs to this degree - now to have more of these so that we have real hard choices to make in terms of what to choose.

[NachoFoot]

Seismic should operate as the following:

1. Requires you to stop moving (common sense tells you that you can't hear if you are making noise).

2. Does not differentiate between friend or foe. All footsteps are seismic quakes.

3. Possibly just shows direction of footsteps, distance from you, and maybe tonnage. This isn't the Avatar where Earthbenders can "see" everything touching the ground. This is more of a simulation.

[Suprentus]

NachoFoot, on 22 May 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

Seismic should operate as the following:

1. Requires you to stop moving (common sense tells you that you can't hear if you are making noise).

2. Does not differentiate between friend or foe. All footsteps are seismic quakes.

3. Possibly just shows direction of footsteps, distance from you, and maybe tonnage. This isn't the Avatar where Earthbenders can "see" everything touching the ground. This is more of a simulation.

Does this really need overcomplicating?

1. Why? Would you not feel an earthquake if you were in the middle of a jog?

2. Allied information is already shared with you. What difference would it make to see a blip along with the blue arrow already there? Wouldn't any computer be able to deduce that a seismic quake that's coming from a friendly signal is friendly and filter it anyway?

3. Isn't that what it already does? It just puts that info on the radar screen.

[Roadbuster]

Jungle Rhino, on 22 May 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

That would explain how my Spider got mid-air PPC sniped while jump jetting between two buildings in Frozen city... He literally had to fire the shot before I was visible as I was in the open for a second at most. Anyhow the thing that is most irritating about this obviously very powerful module is that it is inaccessible to newbs. I mean even the new 'not as ****' trial mechs they are releasing now just don't have a chance against a fully XP'd out Coolshot/Seismic - well anything really. It just widens the gulf even further.

Do you have seismic?
You see a blip on your radar when a mech moves...wait, no. You only see where something hits the ground and you can get a basic idea in which direction a mech is going.
You don't see anything if a mech doesn't move or is jumping through the air.
What you experienced was a lucky shot.
Regarding trial mechs/new players. That won't change no matter what. And even the fully XP'd mechs start out like all others, without any basic skills.
And not everyone is using coolshot or other consumables just because they exist.

hammerreborn, on 22 May 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

Essentially, as long as this thing exists and flamers still suck, there's no point to me playing my light other than to cap your base. So get used to it. Now you have no reason not to know I'm coming cause LOLWALLHAX and mega range radar with BAP

How about equipping the sensor on your light mech? You will know where the opponents are and can outmaneuver them.
No danger of running around a corner into the fireline of a chasing mech.
No longer does predicting the movement of a light mech help catching them, because they know where you go and can get away.

There's always 2 sides.

EDIT:

NachoFoot, on 22 May 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

3. Possibly just shows direction of footsteps, distance from you, and maybe tonnage. This isn't the Avatar where Earthbenders can "see" everything touching the ground. This is more of a simulation.

You want to buff the seismic sensor by telling you tonnage and distance?

Edited by Roadbuster, 22 May 2013 - 10:21 PM.

[Deathlike]

Suprentus, on 22 May 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

Some of you guys really need to get a grip. There's nothing wrong with seismic sensor. It doesn't dumb anything down, nor does it nerf any one chassis. Wanna know how I conduct an ambush around a corner now? I stay still. The enemy thinks the coast is clear, and I light up his face with lasers when he comes around the corner. Instant gratification. Just because you can't think on your toes doesn't mean there's nothing there to think about.

Staying still doesn't really work. Anyone with a brain should know you're still there (you could be a jumper for all I know). What is worse is that it is probably not really optimal to stand still in the current missile bound meta.

Thontor, on 23 May 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

What if Seismic sensor only detected the direction and magnitude that the vibrations were coming from?

And magnitude would be a factor of tonnage, speed, and distance to whatever is causing the vibrations.

And it couldn't differentiate between the number of sources, other than the fact that lots of mechs moving would be a higher magnitude than fewer.

I don't think it would change too much outside of making # of mechs in that area unknown. It doesn't make a difference if you understand how to interpret the data.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 May 2013 - 06:26 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Victor Morson, on 22 May 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

I don't see how adding what amounts to how passive radar worked in every single MechWarrior game before this in the form of Seismic Sensors is "dumbing down" anything.

FYI, Active Radar was for long-range targeting (more awareness, but exposing yourself too), while passive radar was for ambushing/flanking (but having less awareness, and less warnings). That's how it works in MW:LL.

[Kaspirikay]

General Taskeen, on 23 May 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

FYI, Active Radar was for long-range targeting (more awareness, but exposing yourself too), while passive radar was for ambushing/flanking (but having less awareness, and less warnings). That's how it works in MW:LL.

This is how it should work.

[Mechteric]

Having tried advanced seismic sensor now I can say it definitely needs the range brought in. Either weight based or a straight 150m/250m range cap would be a great start without diminishing the utility of it.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 23 May 2013 - 06:37 AM.

[Thundercles]

Just got my adv. seismo installed... and I find myself in agreement with this gentleman.

"You drive, I'm going to keep my eye on this seismojigger thing."

Edited by Thundercles, 23 May 2013 - 10:21 AM.

[Jaguar Prime]

You guys are so use to not having a 360 degree view that it ****** you off when it's finally available. I remember in closed beta when people complained that we didn't have a 360 view around us (I was one of them). Now when they put a version in... people complain..... It's fine the way it is. Adjust your tactics. No more free back shots..... smh

I see why pgi is the way they are now. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.......

Edited by Jaguar Prime, 23 May 2013 - 10:46 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Jaguar Prime, on 23 May 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

You guys are so use to not having a 360 degree view that it ****** you of when it's finally available. I remember in closed beta when people complained that we didn't have a 360 view around us (I was one of them). Now when they put a version in... people complain..... It's fine the way it is. Adjust your tactics. No more free back shots..... smh

I see why pgi is they way they are now. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.......

K, Active/Passive radar never detected "mech foot steps."