507 replies to this topic

[Wolfways]

ShinVector, on 28 April 2014 - 12:23 AM, said:

Strangely... I had games with people making claims like yours... Guess what ? They have the same problem and get killed by LRMs too... Try not make the problem seem non-existent..

Else I will just add you to my friends list do drop together... Watch you get killed by LRMs too.

Edit: gammar

lol i do get hit by LRM's occasionally, but killed? No.
Before the speed increase i basically just forgot they ever existed. After the speed increase i've been killed by LRM's twice. The first time was on purpose. I wanted to see how much damage they actually did so wandered about on the top on Canyon and was obliterated by a Stalker within about 5 seconds.
The second time was my fault. I was on Alpine and chose to leave cover to fire at a poptart instead of firing at the Raven behind me that i knew was spotting.

Using cover while moving around is second nature to me, and out of the thousands of matches since Closed Beta i've probably been killed by LRM's less than a dozen times (not including the two days when LRM's were actually OP before they were hotfixed).
Compared to direct-fire weapons LRM's are just wasted tonnage.

[Lyoto Machida]

ShinVector, on 28 April 2014 - 12:23 AM, said:

Strangely... I had games with people making claims like yours... Guess what ? They have the same problem and get killed by LRMs too... Try not make the problem seem non-existent..

Else I will just add you to my friends list do drop together... Watch you get killed by LRMs too.

Edit: gammar

I think you should do that and follow him around. You might find that you don't have to get killed by LRMs.

[Karl Streiger]

This discussion is as old as MWO.... everything that is necessary is to reduce the LRMs indirect capabilitys:

Remove the "Incoming Missile"
switchable modes - indirect/direct

Indirect (TAG capable /Not Artemis, NARC but without precision bonus)
For example reduce the speed for indirect pattern to 100m/s
Increase the range for "indirect mode" to 2000m
Increase the spread

Direct (Artemis, NARC (precision) / NO TAG)
increased speed - 175-200m/s
decreased range 600m

[ShinVector]

Lyoto Machida, on 28 April 2014 - 01:45 AM, said:

I think you should do that and follow him around. You might find that you don't have to get killed by LRMs.

Why not you too.. ? I can always have more friends to drop with.

You have to face the enemy to win the game.
The last few times I got killed by LRMs was when I playing peekaboo with and Atlas and a Jester... I think I got 1 mech and I was already already trash facing these two and sporadic LRM fire that came down.. Was about to make the kill shot on the Jester... LRMs kill me... The funny thing was I was actually fighting in between buildings. Guess where the LRMs came from ? Only did I find out later.. It was from .. An ECM DDC super LRM boat 500M away...
DOH !!

The worst kind of game is when the LRM bombers have dedicated ECM spotters on voice comms. You think you can avoid that ?

Wolfways, on 27 April 2014 - 11:59 PM, said:

Sorry, i keep forgetting that some people get hit by missiles. I couldn't care if they moved at 500m/s. It would make no difference as long as we are playing on tiny arena's that are nothing but cover.
They are slightly useful on Alpine though.

I am quoting this again... Should I bother to have argument with someone who does NOT think that LRM at 500M/s is NOT A PROBLEM. ?!?!?!?!

Edited by ShinVector, 28 April 2014 - 02:10 AM.

[Wolfways]

ShinVector, on 28 April 2014 - 02:01 AM, said:

I am quoting this again... Should I bother to have argument with someone who does NOT think that LRM at 500M/s is NOT A PROBLEM. ?!?!?!?!

Not an argument, a discussion

Look at it this way.

In direct-fire the LRM's have to get a lock and then have a long travel time during which the firing mech has to stay facing you, and the damage is spread. That alone makes them a lot worse than direct weapons and the speed makes no difference... unless the speed was similar to other weapons which it obviously shouldn't be as they are missiles.
(Imo they should be fire-and-forget but AFAIK they were in CB just before i joined and PGI changed them for some reason.)
But i don't think anyone is complaining about direct-fired LRM's...at least i hope not

In indirect-fire the same as above applies but the LRM mech cannot even target you without a teammate helping. Plus he has to be in a position where he can fire without there being cover next to the target between both mechs.
If you know the enemy are on your left then when you are moving around you should be close to cover on your left. Then, even if another enemy mech spots you the missiles will hit the cover.
If you get hit by multiple indirect LRM's from different directions then there's nothing you can do except try to quickly find different cover, if you have time, while fighting the spotter. But in that case it's not that the weapon is OP, it's that you were simply outplayed.
All these players who are saying there's hardly any cover on the maps just doesn't make sense to me. The maps are like arena's, not battlefields. They are nothing but cover except for the obvious places where nobody (except newbies) goes. i.e. out in the water.

The reason i say the speed makes little difference is that i rarely get targeted in the first place without the missiles just hitting cover near me. From the complaints on the forums it sounds like players expect to be able to fight in the open and then when they get the incoming missiles warning (which imo should be removed as LRM's are not high damage weapons) they should have time to get to cover, and that's what i don't understand. You don't get to run to cover if someone fires any other weapon at you, why should missiles be any different? You already get the option of lessening the damage (AMS) or even completely negating it (ECM)! (And no, you should not be forced to use T2 equipment to just to counter ECM and make your LRM's viable. That's like saying lasers and AC's should not be viable unless you're using ERlasers and UltraAC's.

My wife, who has no fps experience, played MWO for a while. She says she never had a problem with LRM's other than they were trash compared to other weapons and removed them from her mechs the minute she bought them.
But then, after the first coupe of days practicing she turned out to be one of, if not the best player i've seen lol.

[Wintersdark]

Ultimately, the above.

I've died to LRM's, but only when there are a LOT of LRM's on the enemy team (and thus I'm dying to the predominant weapon type, which is no different than getting gunned down by AC's). The reality is for the enemy team to target me, there needs to be someone I can target myself. The missiles travel (even post buff) slowly, so I can at least block a majority of the incoming missiles with cover. As Wolfways said, if you're getting LRM'd from multiple directions, you've been grossly outplayed.

LRM's are better than they were, but are still basically only effective when direct fired. If you're getting wrecked by indirect fired LRM's, it's because of mistakes you're making. Stop making those mistakes. And it's pretty hard to argue that LRM's are particularly powerful direct-fire weapons: ton for ton, they are objectively inferior to most regular direct-fire weapons.

[ShinVector]

Wintersdark, on 28 April 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

Ultimately, the above.

I've died to LRM's, but only when there are a LOT of LRM's on the enemy team (and thus I'm dying to the predominant weapon type, which is no different than getting gunned down by AC's). The reality is for the enemy team to target me, there needs to be someone I can target myself. The missiles travel (even post buff) slowly, so I can at least block a majority of the incoming missiles with cover. As Wolfways said, if you're getting LRM'd from multiple directions, you've been grossly outplayed.

LRM's are better than they were, but are still basically only effective when direct fired. If you're getting wrecked by indirect fired LRM's, it's because of mistakes you're making. Stop making those mistakes. And it's pretty hard to argue that LRM's are particularly powerful direct-fire weapons: ton for ton, they are objectively inferior to most regular direct-fire weapons.

Winter's my issue current with Wolf's comments like.
1. I never die to LRMs. I don't know what you are doing wrong. There is always cover.
2. 500M/s LRM would be just fine. I see no problem.

I can deal with LRMs just fine with the right mech and weapons it is even easier. But it certainly a hell of alot harder on non ecm brawlers. I am always trying to find good methods deal with boating but versus premade 4 mans when you are alone in PUGs. I can be ggclose.
I had given the challenge to others and what they claim about evading LRMs and not dieing to LRMs is simply not true. Being able to fight while you are constantly being suppressed by LRM rain is no easy task. Do you agree ?

That's all... LRM are strong... There is no denying it.
The shear arrogance that some LRMs defenders are just too much.

Edited by ShinVector, 28 April 2014 - 09:47 AM.

[ChewBaka]

The current implementation of LRMs is flat out ruining the game. Period. LRM boats are overpowered, especially in maps where there is insufficient cover and lots of open terrain (Alpine Peaks, Caustic, etc). It is a weapon that requires very little skills and does far more focused damage than you might expect. I am still annoyed that PGI saw fit to nerf every other boat build but left the LRM boats alone.

Its gotten to the point where I outright tell LRM boats to piss off when they ask for locks in a PUG - even if they are on my team. NO. I am NOT spotting for you.It is extremely dangerous for a light mech to go spotting for targets these days. Holding locks means keeping the enemy in sight. If I can see them, they can see me too which means I can expect their own LRMs to come after me shortly and they're so much harder to dodge these days.

Carry a Tag and get your own targets. Do some work. Expose your own butt to danger instead. You have armor too - help soak some damage. As it is, there is insufficient reward for me to risk myself on your behalf. You will get more c-bills and XP from the damage done.

I'd rather joust and backstab. Means I get to deal a little more damage and sneak some kills in too if the enemy isn't alert and not watching their rear armor.

Maybe if they forced LRM boats to shared their rewards to spotters...say, I get 50% of your c-bills and XP for any missiles fired out of direct visual sight of which the locks are obtained from my spotting...than sure, I'll spot for you. As it is, this one-off bonus is miniscule. I'll do it near the start of the match. After that, you can go soak your head.