148 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Hotthedd, on 22 May 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Not much more to say than the title. I dusted off my Pretty Baby, loaded it up with 55 LRMs, and took it out on a few matches today. I never died. I never had fewer than 2 kills and many assists. I never had to "work" for a kill. I just sat near the back and pointed and clicked. Easy money. My question is: WHO enjoys this? What is the point? Minecraft is more challenging. I cannot suppose it is any more fun for my hapless victims, especially on Caustic Valley, where things that USED to provide cover no longer do. PGI, please PLEASE do not cater to the crowd that thinks this is at all fun, or takes the slightest skill. A Hotfix is necessary yesterday, not with the next patch.

I am enjoying it, and I play Streakcat.

Love those LRM spammers. They have no SSRMs for backup (only medium lasers) and die to me like b1tches.

Adapting to the LRM rain is not difficult at all. Much easier and fun than stupid poptart meta we had.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 May 2013 - 12:17 AM.

[Flyby215]

Would prefer LRMaggedon to poptarts any day...

[CECILOFS]

Hotthedd, on 22 May 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

or takes the slightest skill.

And there it is...

Except for genuine concerns about broken game mechanics, which have been acknowledged, every anti-LRM post comes down to people believing (wrongly) that ballistics and lasers require more skill than LRMs.

Pull your head out of your rear end and realise this is not CoD or Battlefield - its a Mechwarrior game and missiles are part of the game THAT DO TAKE SKILL TO USE PROPERLY (assuming they are not bugged).

If your only complaint is about the BROKEN MECHANICS WHICH HAVE BEEN ACKNOWLEDGED, then just chill out because the devs have said it will be fixed.

[Joseph Mallan]

They haven't fixed them yet?

I only had some time to tested a few loadout ideas and while on the testing grounds I had a Centurion that I put the LRM10 back into. The trajectory was quite flat. Now unless we have a different trajectory with a spotter... Quit complaining!

[VXJaeger]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 May 2013 - 03:16 AM, said:

Now unless we have a different trajectory with a spotter... Quit complaining!

We have...QQ on.

[Foxdie]

I'm low ELO and not having much issue with the LRM boats....I run light and assault. ECM is still good ...AMS still works ... and so does mobility to some degree. Oh and we have cover....oh yeah and we can walk within the 200m range and f them up. TACTICS MAN...use them.

[Appogee]

CECILOFS, on 23 May 2013 - 02:58 AM, said:

And there it is... Except for genuine concerns about broken ...missiles are part of the game THAT DO TAKE SKILL TO USE PROPERLY

Please do share with us the incredible skills required to use LRMs...?

Last night I spectated in the cockpit of an LRM camper who didn't move out from behind a rock or even need to see his targets. The only skills I could see him using were:
1. Join a team in which other people are prepared to go near the enemy.
2. Find a suitable rock to hide behind.
3. Move mouse in general direction of red triangle.
4. Wait for red triangle to turn into red circle.
5. Click fire.
6. Repeat.

He did 455 damage for the match...

But anyway, please tell us more about the hidden skills we need to develop to join in and become fully realised LRM Warriors?

Edited by Appogee, 23 May 2013 - 05:10 AM.

[Liquid Leopard]

verybad, on 22 May 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

OMG, Gausscatss RUIN the game
OMG, fast Medium laser mechs RUIN the game
OMG, Jenners RUIN the game!
OMG LRMs RUIN the game
OMG ECM RUINS the game
OMG Raven 3ls RUIN the game
OMG, POPtartss RUIN the game
OMG, LRMs RUIN the game

Don't forget "OMG 6 PPC Stalkers ruin the game!"
So now my CPLT-K2 has been castrated.

[Voidcrafter]

Foxdie, on 23 May 2013 - 03:31 AM, said:

I'm low ELO and not having much issue with the LRM boats....I run light and assault. ECM is still good ...AMS still works ... and so does mobility to some degree. Oh and we have cover....oh yeah and we can walk within the 200m range and f them up. TACTICS MAN...use them.

I was going to stop reading after the "Low ELO" part, but then I saw an advice to use tactics
The difference between ELO brackets is probably so huge that it'll be hard for you even to begin to imagine - just a tiny example - if I team up with someone with terrible ELO I can easily confess that I feel like a complete God of the game.
Depending on that person ELO I can, with the same effort, claim that I can kill 3-5 people with more than 500 damage every 4 of 5 games(tryied it not just only once).

That doesn't actually makes me worse player at the higher ELO ratings - I think I'm decent at this game, but when I either play alone or in team with good players with high ELO well... It's like playing two completely different games

No matter what's the hit of the season - it's simple maths - the easier a build can kill lots of the enemies/deliver insane damage by a very silly way - the higher ELO it will get in time.

I don't know about you guys, but currently I'm at the point that there are almost ONLY poptarts and boats(weither would they be PPC Stalker ones, or LRM ones currently) and in some exception some very, and I mean VERY good light pilots(well... about 70% of them are causing some troubles anyways).

For the record - I ordinary pilot something like 4xMed. Lasers, 2xUAC5s(cata-3D), 3xMed. Lasers, 2xUAC5s(Murometz) or 1xPPC, 1xMed Laser, 1xLarge Laser(Murometz again), 3xPPCs, 3xMed Lasers(AWS-9M) etc. etc. --> Hardly cheesy builds and with that thought I'm very proud(and I will NEVER go the darkside way ) with all I've achieved without joining the poptart/boats numbers.

On the topic:
Are LRMs very, very powerful now?
Yes, they feel so.
How would they feel if not all the players go stupid about boating them?
I can't answer that.
None who's playing in the games I am can answer that question.

Are those complaining threads reasonable?
I can't really tell you now - we've all seen the worse of the weapon buffing
With that in mind ask yourselves - can the DEVs actually make the difference by themselves just by whatching how people complain about this s**t, or plating in games when 70+% of the people have gone boating?

I can assure you that if there are way fewer people using LRMs(per team) they will seem a way weaker.
As I can assure you that there are as much people who think, that the power of LRMs have nothing to do with that(the large number of LRM boats on their team), which is wrong.

AC40 Jagger?
No probs.
3xAC40 Jaggers? Whoa... AC20 is OP etc. etc. - we've all been there with all sorts of weapons.
If you ask for my opinion - the problem with the people is that they don't wanna achieve victory by creative ways - they wanna achieve victory by the easiest way - which flattens the game to one variety of mech's that's dominating on the battlefield.
Which makes the point of weither a weapon is overpowered or it just seems so, cause a lot of people are using it very, very blurry.

Last thing - I don't like LRMs, I don't use them(I have tho - I know the basics, the angles, all the c**p people are claiming it's making them "hard" weapon, which I disagree) - I've arguet tons of times with people trying to defend the weapon - I'm saying all this cause I'm trying to be as unprejudiced as I can, cause crying for buff/nerf is affecting the whole game's playerbase - not only me.
You can try to always have that in mind
Things aint aways black or white.

[El Bandito]

Appogee, on 23 May 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

Please do share with us the incredible skills required to use LRMs...? Last night I spectated in the cockpit of an LRM camper who didn't move out from behind a rock or even need to see his targets. The only skills I could see him using were: 1. Join a team in which other people are prepared to go near the enemy. 2. Find a suitable rock to hide behind. 3. Move mouse in general direction of red triangle. 4. Wait for red triangle to turn into red circle. 5. Click fire. 6. Repeat. He did 455 damage for the match... But anyway, please tell us more about the hidden skills we need to develop to join in and become fully realised LRM Warriors?

Only 455? I am a skilled LRMer then, cause I used to do over 1000 damage with LRMs BEFORE the Patch.

MWO is so easy to play that the word skill has no use here. So up yours to anyone who thinks he is skilled as long as he does not use LRMs and SSRMs.

Only place where MWO players show genuine skill is in their tactics and strategies.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 May 2013 - 05:33 AM.

[Hotthedd]

CECILOFS, on 23 May 2013 - 02:58 AM, said:

And there it is...

Except for genuine concerns about broken game mechanics, which have been acknowledged, every anti-LRM post comes down to people believing (wrongly) that ballistics and lasers require more skill than LRMs.

Pull your head out of your rear end and realise this is not CoD or Battlefield - its a Mechwarrior game and missiles are part of the game THAT DO TAKE SKILL TO USE PROPERLY (assuming they are not bugged).

If your only complaint is about the BROKEN MECHANICS WHICH HAVE BEEN ACKNOWLEDGED, then just chill out because the devs have said it will be fixed.

You take one phrase from my argument and attack it as if it stands alone.

Hmmm, what is that called again? Oh yeah-- Strawman fallacy.

Easy to use + OP weapon = new metagame. For those who say snipers are easier to play, I say: then why don't we see as many of them as before?

Look, if the LRM boat kidz want to pretend that spamming LRMs are difficult, fine. (But you aren't fooling anyone) In my opinion, it is SO easy as to not be fun.

[Ozric]

Hotthedd, on 23 May 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

Look, if the LRM boat kidz want to pretend that spamming LRMs are difficult, fine. (But you aren't fooling anyone) In my opinion, it is SO easy as to not be fun.

I can only assume then that you do not know how to correctly use LRMs. One does not simply spam missiles.

[Kyynele]

Hotthedd, on 22 May 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

PGI, please PLEASE do not cater to the crowd that thinks this is at all fun, or takes the slightest skill. A Hotfix is necessary yesterday, not with the next patch.

The time after the previous LRMocalypse hotfix was by far the most boring time I've seen in the game. Now that would've needed a hotfix, yet we were stuck for weeks with the PPCwar. I wouldn't mind them adjusting the flight paths to something more sensible, I just hope they won't do another knee-jerk "fix" and **** things up again.

[Appogee]

Ozric, on 23 May 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

I can only assume then that you do not know how to correctly use LRMs. One does not simply spam missiles.

What do you consider to be the correct way to use LRMs?

[Sheraf]

Hotthedd, on 23 May 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

You take one phrase from my argument and attack it as if it stands alone.

Hmmm, what is that called again? Oh yeah-- Strawman fallacy.

Easy to use + OP weapon = new metagame. For those who say snipers are easier to play, I say: then why don't we see as many of them as before?

Look, if the LRM boat kidz want to pretend that spamming LRMs are difficult, fine. (But you aren't fooling anyone) In my opinion, it is SO easy as to not be fun.

Don't believe that LRM are hard to use? Hope we meet in battle with you as LRM boat

[Liquid Leopard]

Monky, on 22 May 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

LRMs are a factor now. I am seeing teams that overly rely on them get waxed by advancing cohesive groups and teams that make smart use of them are more capable all around.

This is how it should be. LRM's should be in fights, not sitting in the mech bay collecting dust.

Appogee, on 22 May 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Minor correction, even when you're hugging the wall, the missiles come down on you and somehow pass through your head and hit your CT (!)

My first few matches after the patch confirmed that my dual PPC mechs were screwed up. The previous cool-down rate was already pretty slow in my mind, and now my K2 doesn't have enough firepower or survivability to contribute to the team. I wish they had done something else to deal with the 6PPC cheesebuilds (that I actually never saw on the field).

I saw what the LRMs were doing and thought "Hey, maybe my Catapult C1 can finally pull its own weight". I saw someone's complaint about missile trails darkening the sky and decided "I shall fight in the shade!"
So, with stock weapons (2xLRM-15 and 4xML) my C1 is about all the missile boat I've got, and that mech is much more useful than before.

I won't say it takes skill like sniping or brawling, but it takes tactics. Shooting from behind cover requires cooperative spotters, and since I play PUGs, that's not always the case. If I try to get my own line-of-sight to the enemy I'm exposed just like everybody else. It's a new challenge. I had to step up my awareness of cover, especially after seeing enemy LRMs turn down at a 60' angle to hit my teamates (I was like "Oh, is that what happened to me last game?"). That was some freaky s#!+. It was like the missiles recognized the edge of the cover, and right at that edge they turned down.

Other players are avoiding my missiles, because they're learning to move from one covered location to another. I know that's what I'm doing. It occurred to me that's probably what good Stalker and Catapult pilots have been doing all along, and I just now got the hang of it.
...And, isn't that what you do in real combat? Tanks use terrain for cover. Helicopters use trees and buildings for cover. Airplanes use hills and mountains for cover when they can. The F-117 "stealth fighter" used terrain for cover!

I agree that the current missile flight path is a bit silly (especially with the missiles turning at sharp angles, with no apparent radius), but I'm impressed with how people started adapting within a few hours of the patch. The quest for cover has gone to a whole new level, and people are making it work! If you pick your cover well, and don't stray too far, you can react quickly when you hear "Warning! Incoming missile". With or without cover, I see players (especially with assault mechs) sticking together better, to make the most of their AMSs.

I think the biggest surprise is all the matches where I have the only missile boat on the team. Other people got bored with the LRM boats. Lots of guys running scouts and brawlers. New Blackjack mech has no LRMs? Regardless, they're a factor in the battle. I've been killed by them several times. My lasers are a factor when someone closes with me, or when I run out of ammo. Jump jets are a factor when a Jagermech gets in my business and I want to flee up the cliff I've been using for cover. My Catapult's huge CT hitbox is still a factor because if other missile boats get a firing solution, and their missiles come down on me, I'm done. My "side torso" is a flat panel perpendicular to the missiles' path. If they hit torso, it's the center torso and nothing else. Head hits? Ha! I take so much CT damage it doesn't matter!

I have to watch my exposure the same as everyone else, because there's often an enemy mech with twice my LRMs per salvo, and he'll have no mercy for me. There are also those moments when somebody sees me and obviously thinks "LRM cheater mech! Get that SOB!" (I still have my lasers, guys. Not going down without a fight!)

Missiles that actually kill targets are new to me, but everything else on the field is still a factor. I was never that good at sniping, my skills and fps aren't up to snuff for brawling, but for the duration of the LRM Missilocalypse I have a niche where I can contribute to the team.

Edited by Liquid Leopard, 23 May 2013 - 06:10 AM.

[VXJaeger]

My opinion 'bout this "LRMcalypse", it's not one.
And if it is, it's 3rd since beginning of open beta. OP n00b.
http://mwomercs.com/...46#entry2375646

[Sheraf]

VXJaeger, on 23 May 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

My opinion 'bout this "LRMcalypse", it's not one.
And if it is, it's 3rd since beginning of open beta. OP n00b.
http://mwomercs.com/...46#entry2375646

Your strategy haven't change since the first one

[Hotthedd]

Ozric, on 23 May 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

I can only assume then that you do not know how to correctly use LRMs. One does not simply spam missiles.

Averaging 2 to 3 kills per game while not even focusing on the match tells me I know how to "use" LRMs.

Sheraf, on 23 May 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

Don't believe that LRM are hard to use? Hope we meet in battle with you as LRM boat

We probably won't, as playing an LRM boat is too easy for me. It isn't fun or challenging. You may run across me in one of my scout mechs, as that role has gotten to be more challenging.

VXJaeger, on 23 May 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

My opinion 'bout this "LRMcalypse", it's not one.
And if it is, it's 3rd since beginning of open beta. OP n00b.
http://mwomercs.com/...46#entry2375646

3rd since open beta. Great. 2nd this year (since Jan. 1st, 2013).
"n00b"? Really? Insults reflect more on the one using them than the target of the insult. It means that you have no logical argument.

[Bloody Moon]

The key word is always adapting. While LRMs are annoying and according to PGI still bugged, but it is nowhere near that hard to defeat as some make it seem like.