325 replies to this topic

[WaddeHaddeDudeda]

IamSalvation, on 23 May 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

...
To me 4 Man Players are nothing better then Cheaters/Exploiters, doing everything they can, how cheap it ever may be, to win at a video game.
Yaddayadda ImmadcuzImbad.

I hereby want to apology myself for playing a TEAM-based game with some friends in a TEAM....NOT!

If for anything, be mad at PGI for just sporting this crappy excuse of a "matchmaker" (instead of giving us lobbies)!

[Soy]

Ghogiel, on 23 May 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

Is partially eating a baby not as naughty as eating a whole one?

Hell no it's not; just half as delicious and filling. Probably less calories, too?

[Taemien]

blinkin, on 23 May 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

to be honest i think there should be incentives and tools for more effective teamplay for all. i pug almost exclusively, but the nature of his posts has earned him a steady stream of trolling from me.

i get annoyed when people throw up these sort of arguments on the opposing side. i get even more angry when people use these tactics to support things i agree with because it generally marginalizes the argument and i have to put extra effort forth to clean up the mess and argue stupid crap that i never said.

I totally agree. I don't think players that PUG are useless, stupid, or even ignorant. The majority of them simply login for a couple of matches and thats it. I totally respect that.

However...

I understand the nature of the beast (and I think you do as well). IF we put premades in their only queue, the community queue would be split yet again. We already know CW is going to split us to fighting house vs house (hopefully alliance vs alliance, such as Davion + Steiner vs Liao + Marik). And we know that most players play in groups (by the Data from PGI).

With this known, it wouldn't be fair for solo players to be stuck in their own queues. They would have a harder time finding a match.

The better solution (which also comes with stage one of CW), is a lobby based system. It used to be in MW3 and MW4 that you had to join a team. Either drop as one (MW3) or join one already in the ready group or in play (MW4). Now I think players looking for a quick match should be able to click launch and get one. I want to keep that. But a lobby will allow players of similar factions to get together and drop as a group. This lets them the bare minimum of communication (or go further and share TS info) and support (they'll know who is taking what, which will be a BIG difference).

That alone will end the solo vs premade debate once and for all. Everyone except those looking for the quickest match possible will be a premade. If everyone's a premade, no one has an advantage. This is the ideal fix.

Ngamok, on 23 May 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...evs-37-answers/

Gallowglas: When 12v12 is introduced, which will be the available queue options?
Option A - Solo, 2-8 player premade, or 12 player premade
Option B - Solo, 2-4 player premade, 8 player premade, or 12 player premade
Option C - Something else
A: Currently 2-4 and 12. If we feel comfortable with matchmaking being able to create quality matches out of any size teams, we plan to do so.

http://mwomercs.com/...mades-in-12v12/

Asaru: Will we be seeing the return soon of the ability to drop in premade groups of various sizes and have pugs fill out the remainder of the team like it was in closed beta? Or has there been a conscious decision to not bring this back at all?
A: This is conscious to help balance out matches. The max team size in a public match is 4 and we continue to improve the matchmaker to create a more balanced experience. When 12 v 12 rolls out, 8 player teams will be replaced by 12 player teams.

Some of that has changed... as illustrated by the LATEST QnA:

Ghogiel, on 23 May 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

Don't forget this one

http://mwomercs.com/...vs-38-answered/

Metafox: Do you have any future plans to accommodate groups of 5+ players who want to play together but are unable to fill a full 12-man?
A: Yes. We’re getting close to feeling confident in the matchmaker, which is the sole reason for not allowing it currently.

I quoted that earlier in the thread, I guess you missed it Ngamok.

IamSalvation, on 23 May 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

They just WANT to stomp. They dont want good, equal Battles, they just want to stomp and then say its "superior Tactics"...

You are irredeemable you seriously are keeping up with the attempt at bullying. I hope the leaders of the various DCMS units are watching this so they can keep you out of their groups in Community Warfare. You are obviously not a team oriented, competitive, nor a sportsmanlike player if you would go out of your way to chastise your fellow players for simply playing by the rules.
[REDACTED]

Edited by Dakkath, 24 May 2013 - 08:19 AM.
Redacted insult.

[Soy]

****, now I've clicked into this thread like 5 times.

KTOWN THIS ****

[blinkin]

NinetyProof, on 23 May 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

OP doesn't really know what he is talking about ... why? cause he doesn't have the numbers and is painting with a single broad brush.

There is a huge difference between say a 8 man competitive team breaking into 2 @ 4 mans and hitting up puggies ... vs the random 4 man you make in a public TS server room.

Some of those 4 mans are almost no better then just 4 puggies cause a lot of them don't have a *leader* that directs the Lance, nor do they bring complementary mechs.

Voice Coms for 4 random puggies, the play like puggies, that just happen to have voice coms is not a huge advantage in any way, shape, or form.

Of course when you hit a 4 man of high calbre, of players that are used to playing with each other, and are on voice coms, your going to have a tough time ... but ELO should keep them fairly far away from you, generally speaking.

So ... stop painting with such a broad brush ... not all 4 mans ROCK DA HOUSE ... and even the high calbre ones get rolled once in a while. That's right ... high calibre 4 mans getting rolled? what's that about?

It's about realizing there is always somebody better then you on the battle field .. stop QQing and start trying to be that person.

no he has demonstrated that he has the numbers. unfortunately those numbers don't agree with him at all. he has been steadily digging his own hole and chose to ignore my last post about the information HE provided in the thread.

are there problems? of course. is this the solution? hell no.

we need to add more features that allow pugs to be more organized, instead of sheltering them from the teams and ruining both sides.

[xxREVxx]

IamSalvation, on 23 May 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

To me 4 Man Players are nothing better then Cheaters/Exploiters, doing everything they can, how cheap it ever may be, to win at a video game.

I was in a Clan at start of OB, it was super boring, 90% winratio... really whats the point to rofl stomp everyone every game?
@"L2P" You can play how awesome you want, you can´t make up for 4 players that selected Mechs that work together, working together ingame and beein able to communicate 200% faster and better.... really its just easymode playing like that....

Wow, man....wow.
and teaming up in a team based game...the horror.

yo, man....there's more important things that need to be addressed in this game than you getting mad because you don't want to drop in a group and got your third point of contact handed to you.

PGI: if what this person is ranting about is accurate, please fix matchmaking.

[Cferre]

PoisonWolf, on 23 May 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

Wow, man....wow.
and teaming up in a team based game...the horror.

Being in a team together does not mean, working as a team. As in, forced.
There has to be a pug vs pug queue.

Edited by Cferre, 23 May 2013 - 04:24 PM.

[Lykaon]

Acid Phase, on 23 May 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

You can also add that premades have a massive advantage using 3rd party voice chats coordinating better over puggers who are limited to just typing. In game voice chat could possibly even up the playing field. But yes, premades definately should not be thrown into the mix with non-premades.

They most certainly should be in the mix.Everyone should be in the same pool so the matchmaker has enough to actually make a match occur in a reasonable amount of time.

I am opposed to any change that divides the community into PUG or Premade.

an Ideal match maker would first sort solo players by ELO and Premade groups by ELO.

The assign a group to each side and fill in the gaps with solo players (since this is the easyer method )

Only in the event of a shortage of grouped players would a team of 8 solo players face a premade of 4.

And in this case of the 12 solo players in that match (4 with the premade and 8 opposition force) the 8 with the best ELO score should compose the solo player team.

Honestly I feel 8 man teams should also be in the same pool as everyone.The matchmaker can place 8 man vs 8 man failing that 4 man + 4 man and failing that 4 man + 4 highest ELO solo players and lastly 8 highest ELO solo players.Most of the time the 8 man will be facing either another 8 man or at least 2 4 mans so the solo puggers will only rarely see a full 8 man team fighting 8 solos and even then the 8 solos will probably be from a higher ELO bracket than the 8 man average ELO.

One game One player pool for match maker.

Also,Intergrated voice chat for everyone.

Edited by Lykaon, 23 May 2013 - 04:25 PM.

[DeathofSelf]

Soy, on 23 May 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

Hell no it's not; just half as delicious and filling. Probably less calories, too?

Well if you are on a diet, I suppose it would only be half as naughty

[Sierra19]

Acid Phase, on 23 May 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

You can also add that premades have a massive advantage using 3rd party voice chats coordinating better over puggers who are limited to just typing. In game voice chat could possibly even up the playing field. But yes, premades definately should not be thrown into the mix with non-premades.

Everybody knows there are House TS servers and the C3 VOIP software, right? I'm assuming those are both still around, and implemented. And, yes, while "premade" 4 man groups have an advantage in comms, and teamwork, they still have to type to relay messages to the rest of the team, that usually go ignored. Knowing that you can rely on at least half of your team to not lemming to their deaths, you may actually stand a chance of winning.

[Dude42]

I cannot play in a premade(2, 3,4 or 8 man). Any attempt by me to use any kind of voice chat results in malformed packet drops to mechlab in 90-95% of my matches. Hell even without voice chat I get dropped in close to 30%. Therefore any team I try to play on, or would want to recruit, would run a severe risk of being crippled by a malformed packet. So my only options are to get PUG-Stomped repeatedly by people who can communicate without having to literally STOP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MAP, or try to find a team that is ok with only completing 1 in 20 games(if I'm lucky while using VOIP). Because PGI cannot be bothered to integrate a real VOIP solution, nor can they be bothered to fix their network issue. That being said, I despise the current MM system. Premades should only be matched against other premades. You got a 4-man, awesome, have a 4-man + 4-man vs 4-man +4-man game. You have a 2 or 3-man, awesome, have a 3-man + 3-man + 2-man vs 4-man + 4-man. You get the idea(hopefully). PGI cannot sit there with a straight face and tell me they cannot do the math.

Edit: Maybe they can. They've been telling us for months they could fix the malformed packet issue. O_O

Edited by Dude42, 23 May 2013 - 04:37 PM.

[Soy]

Dude42, on 23 May 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

I cannot play in a premade(2, 3,4 or 8 man). Any attempt by me to use any kind of voice chat results in malformed packet drops to mechlab in 90-95% of my matches. Hell even without voice chat I get dropped in close to 30%. Therefore any team I try to play on, or would want to recruit, would run a severe risk of being crippled by a malformed packet. So my only options are to get PUG-Stomped repeatedly by people who can communicate without having to literally STOP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MAP, or try to find a team that is ok with only completing 1 in 20 games(if I'm lucky while using VOIP). Because PGI cannot be bothered to integrate a real VOIP solution, nor can they be bothered to fix their network issue. That being said, I despise the current MM system. Premades should only be matched against other premades. You got a 4-man, awesome, have a 4-man + 4-man vs 4-man +4-man game. You have a 2 or 3-man, awesome, have a 3-man + 3-man + 2-man vs 4-man + 4-man. You get the idea(hopefully). PGI cannot sit there with a straight face and tell me they cannot do the math.

Edit: Maybe they can. They've been telling us for months they could fix the malformed packet issue. O_O

May I suggest a better ISP?

[blinkin]

Soy, on 23 May 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

May I suggest a better ISP?

i normally don't like suggestions like this, but this game is strictly online multiplayer. i am not blaming him for having crappy internet because there are plenty of places where that is the only choice, but the developers shouldn't be asked to design around those specific issues. if the latest networking technology you have in you vicinity is morse code wires, the rest of the community shouldn't be punished for it.

[Krell Darkmoon]

IamSalvation, on 23 May 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

Yeah i know now all Players come in "get in a Premade yourselfe" "L2P" blabla...

I was in a Clan at start of OB, it was super boring, 90% winratio... really whats the point to rofl stomp everyone every game?
@"L2P" You can play how awesome you want, you can´t make up for 4 players that selected Mechs that work together, working together ingame and beein able to communicate 200% faster and better.... really its just easymode playing like that....

From the OPs post I've come away with 2 things.

The OP gets bored if he wins.
The OP QQs if he Loses.

I hear there are many guides on "How to Build (insert name) Mech".

Edited by Krell Darkmoon, 23 May 2013 - 05:01 PM.

[Dude42]

Soy, on 23 May 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

May I suggest a better ISP?

Did you read the thread I linked to?
Edit: and the thread it links to.
Just in case:
http://mwomercs.com/...ng-a-game-drop/
and
http://mwomercs.com/...ng-a-game-drop/

If you cannot be bothered to read all of it. At least read my posts.

Edited by Dude42, 23 May 2013 - 05:05 PM.

[Dude42]

blinkin, on 23 May 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

i normally don't like suggestions like this, but this game is strictly online multiplayer. i am not blaming him for having crappy internet because there are plenty of places where that is the only choice, but the developers shouldn't be asked to design around those specific issues. if the latest networking technology you have in you vicinity is morse code wires, the rest of the community shouldn't be punished for it.

I have RoadRunner 50 Mb/s Down 5 Mb/s Up in Tampa, FL. Latency of between 70 and 85 to IGP's servers. Hardly the boonies. Perhaps you should know what you are talking about before speaking. I linked to a thread that has all of the relevant information in it. Including my ISP specs, as well as the results of numerous line tests.

Edited by Dude42, 23 May 2013 - 05:09 PM.

[blinkin]

Dude42, on 23 May 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

Did you read the thread I linked to?
Edit: and the thread it links to.
Just in case:
http://mwomercs.com/...ng-a-game-drop/
and
http://mwomercs.com/...ng-a-game-drop/

If you cannot be bothered to read all of it. At least read my posts.

this is an issue that should be fixed, but we shouldn't design an entire system around this one bug. designing around bugs, glitches, etc. only leads to many more issues once the bugs are fixed.

[Dude42]

blinkin, on 23 May 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

this is an issue that should be fixed, but we shouldn't design an entire system around this one bug. designing around bugs, glitches, etc. only leads to many more issues once the bugs are fixed.

What the hell do you mean? I suggested they fix the bug and add integrated voice chat. As well as have premade vs premade. Which would actually not really be necessary if they added integrated voice chat and fixed their netcode...but still nice to have. If you could kindly explain to me how this is designing around a bug, I'd be most interested to hear it.

Edit:punctuation

I was just stating that "joining a premade" was not an option for everyone currently.

Edited by Dude42, 23 May 2013 - 05:17 PM.

[blinkin]

Dude42, on 23 May 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

I have RoadRunner 50 Mb/s Down 5 Mb/s Up in Tampa, FL. Latency of between 70 and 85 to IGP's servers. Hardly the boonies. Perhaps you should know what you are talking about before speaking. I linked to a thread that has all of the relevant information in it. Including my ISP specs, as well as the results of numerous line tests.

chill, i overlooked the link when i was reading through the rest of your post. you had a brick of text and i didn't pay attention to the one link that was in the middle. in most cases links like that just lead to some rant thread that is a waste of my time.

[Taemien]

Dude42, on 23 May 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

I have RoadRunner 50 Mb/s Down 5 Mb/s Up in Tampa, FL. Latency of between 70 and 85 to IGP's servers. Hardly the boonies. Perhaps you should know what you are talking about before speaking. I linked to a thread that has all of the relevant information in it. Including my ISP specs, as well as the results of numerous line tests.

Buddy of mine has the same issue. He cannot use VOIP. It will D/C him randomly. However integrated VOIP doesn't work. When playing PS2 or STO which have VOIP protocols, it will randomly drop. You will still face these issues if they integrate a VOIP into MWO.

Actually what will happen is you will D/C from MWO even if you don't use it yourself if it were ever added.

The fix isn't a ISP (my friend uses the same ISP I do, and you as well). Its the router/switch or modem itself needs to be updated or replaced. Either that or something in your OS settings and/or firewall. Its something you can fix yourself if you're the head of the household.