123 replies to this topic

[Cyttorak]

The answer depends on the devs, but here's some thoughts:

Information Warfare (IW) has existed in BT for a while, mainly through force-multiplying tech like ECM/BAP/TAG. As a lance-commander, it was always a good thing to have a light mech so-equipped on your team, but as a single player I could see how that might be boring.

If your whole job is just to provide an umbrella of electronic cover for your team, and your weapons/armor are too weak to engage in heavy combat, then you just end up being on an "escort" mission until contact is made.

So, assuming the devs have something more than this in mind for light mechs, what could it be?

- ECM for personal coverage, and acting as a forward spotter for artillery (TAG; a "stealth misson" or Splinter Cell for Mechs).
- Using ECM to jam the enemy's comms? It would be super cool if this could be done to in-game VOIP! Of course, there would probably just be a bunch of cheaters that would use an out-of-game VOIP to get around the effect...LOSERS!
- If some sort of hidden unit ability is in place, or if there are minefields, Beagle Active Probe (BAP) will be of use...maybe BAP adds a small targetting bonus?
- ECCM to counter-jam enemy ECM...then, just to talk to your lancemates, you need to keep your scout mech close and safe.
- ECM messing with the enemy's radar, depending on what mode you have it in.
- Maybe only BAP can detect units that are underwater while you're above water.
- Like in the Mechcommander games, maybe higher sensor skill/BAP can determine specific info about the other team.
- Using BAP to eavesdrop on the other teams comms? Cool!

Any other suggestions?

*edit*
- NARC tagging for lancemates
- Possibly increased XP gain for light mech pilots?
- "Eyes-on-target" bonus to hit for enemies illuminated by TAG; scout get a % of the kill bonus
- Scout can negate bonuses or abilities of commanding units with ECM. (i.e. can't call in artillery until the jamming is cleared)
- Enemy NARC ineffective while the beacon is within a friendly ECM field.
- Light-only mission types. Skirmish, Recon, etc.
- "Point-of-interest" tagging on the other players'/commander's map
- Scouts are the only ones with advanced warning of TAG/NARC/incoming artillery? Have enhanced visuals for detection/location of IW enemy scouts?
- Fragile terrain like frozen lake/lava crust that only low-weight mechs can cross.
- Large, random maps with fog of war makes speedy lights valuable for scouting terrain.
- Charging!

Edited by Cyttorak, 12 November 2011 - 04:12 PM.

[steelwraith]

Since light lances are generally used for long range recon, they could implement a match type where only light mechs are allowed. This could be a variant of capture the flag (occupy the installation long enough to collect recon data), king of the hill (both sides need to occupy the same point), or deathmatch (one side needs to stop the other from escaping off the map).

[Riptor]

The nice thing about Mechs is that a medium laser on a locust is just as effective as the medium laser on an atlas.

Besides being scouts, or electronic warfare machines some lights can be real nasty backstabbers that pack enough punch to take out an assault simply by attacking its backside.

[Rogal Dorn]

Or to copy a mission from MW4: Mercs, there could be opposing light lances having to scan facilities at nav points in enemy controlled territory then return to their drop point with the info before they get destroyed or the other team gets theirs first. Like capture the flag but more in tune to the BT universe.

Whoops just saw the above post right after I posted this

Edited by Rogal Dorn, 08 November 2011 - 01:53 PM.

[Stormwolf]

Ghost targets would be nice if TacOps gets some implementation.

Mechs like the Adder can go toe to toe with most medium mechs, so they are not beyond a more offensive role.
Other examples of this are the Wolfhound and Hollander.

[Cyttorak]

Riptor, on 08 November 2011 - 01:48 PM, said:

The nice thing about Mechs is that a medium laser on a locust is just as effective as the medium laser on an atlas.

Besides being scouts, or electronic warfare machines some lights can be real nasty backstabbers that pack enough punch to take out an assault simply by attacking its backside.

That depends on the specific mech. An Ostscout is very little danger to anyone.
At any rate, I was trying to justify why anyone would take a light mech in a stand-up fight...the kind of place where normally you would only see assaults. Lights are obviously useful in other types of missions, but the devs are going to need to provide a purpose for them in the SUFs.

[Riptor]

Hollander.. the gun on legs.

Was it originally a light? Thought it was a medium.. or was that the later upgrade?


Light mechs are also easaly ignored when a more dangerous target presents itselfe.. giving you the oportunity as a light to score some hits and then get to cover, waiting till you can hit again. So pretty much hit and run tactics.

Also i think light mechs will get lots of bonuses on electronic warfare use. So that they can function as what they are suposed to be, scouts that sniff out the enemy location and relate that information to the commander.

Wich ofcourse is a dangerous job so maybe the people seeking a thrill will go scout?

Edited by Riptor, 08 November 2011 - 01:57 PM.

[Stormwolf]

Riptor, on 08 November 2011 - 01:56 PM, said:

Hollander.. the gun on legs.

Was it originally a light? Thought it was a medium.. or was that the later upgrade?


Light mechs are also easaly ignored when a more dangerous target presents itselfe.. giving you the oportunity as a light to score some hits and then get to cover, waiting till you can hit again. So pretty much hit and run tactics.

It's 35 tons.

[Johnathan Underwood]

I once showed a friend of mine what a light machine can do. He was talking about loading up a 100 tonner with ER PPCs and gauss rifles in Mechwarrior 3. On laptop, no mouse, shortened keyboard, not used to the controls, I started up Mechwarrior 3, took a light mech, tricked out the speed, tossed on some armor, and loaded it up with medium lasers. I used that little thing like an aircraft. High speed strafing runs. I even managed to outrun missiles. Took out 2 or 3 much larger machines before I got taken down. If I had controls I was more used to I probably could have chewed through at least two more mechs.

[Cyttorak]

stormwolf, on 08 November 2011 - 01:57 PM, said:

It's 35 tons.

And not due until 3055.

[Liberty]

Piloting a Light Mech will only be viable if they stick to the original Mechwarrior rules or early incarnations of the MW game. Later versions used an automatic hit into their equation so a Light Mech could be taken out at long range regardless of the skill of the pilot, how fast it was going or what environmentals might be present. Realistically Light Mechs and some Mediums excel at Sniper warfare and also in providing support services like ECM to lancemates. They are designed to move in quickly as a Scout and are not for up front mech to mech combat unless it is another light mech. They do their job well on tabletop but unfortunately the last versions of the Mechwarrior game turned light mechs into garbage and an expendable tier mech on your way to heavy and assault mechs. Hopefully MWO will be about tactics and they will bring the original role of Light Mechs Back. Any pilot will tell you that trying to ping a Locust or a Jenner moving full out long range can be a pain in the neck. However, Light Mech pilots often must be more skilled than Heavy Pilots as one wrong move or turn can bring disastrous consequences. A stopped or a slowed Light Mech is often helpless and will soon meet its demise.

[Sporkosophy]

To expand on Stormwolf, the medium you're thinking of is the Hollander II at 45 tons.

[Cyttorak]

I also forgot to mention that lights are just a blast to pilot!
Some people will take them just because they have the need-4-speed!

[Lab Rat]

"Why pilot a light mech?"

Because some of the most intense fun combat can be had in light lance on light lance battles.
Unless everyone's driving a Spider-5K (more commonly known as the MPBT:3025 Laginator)
I remember some darn good times in a Raven, plopping down a NARC and letting the chaos commence.

[Stormwolf]

Cyttorak, on 08 November 2011 - 01:59 PM, said:

And not due until 3055.

Yes, but it's a example of a light mech that is suited for a more direct fighting role.

The Panther would also be example of this, it's essentially a "footsoldier" design.

[Cyttorak]

Liberty, on 08 November 2011 - 02:00 PM, said:

*snip*... Light Mech pilots often must be more skilled than Heavy Pilots as one wrong move or turn can bring disastrous consequences. A stopped or a slowed Light Mech is often helpless and will soon meet its demise.

Yes, but how about some suggestions for the devs to make lights relevant? That's the purpose of this thread.

[Creel]

Scouting/forward recon, ECM, and sentry duty. They may not be able to go toe to toe with the main force, but skirmishes between scouting elements can get pretty vicious at knife range.

[Cyttorak]

Lab Rat, on 08 November 2011 - 02:01 PM, said:

"Why pilot a light mech?"

Because some of the most intense fun combat can be had in light lance on light lance battles.
Unless everyone's driving a Spider-5K (more commonly known as the MPBT:3025 Laginator)
I remember some darn good times in a Raven, plopping down a NARC and letting the chaos commence.

That's more like it! I'd forgotten about the force-multipier that is the NARC!

Tagging baddies for the NARC-capable LRMs/SRMs of your lancemates...that's a good reason to take a light. Hopefully, you'll get bonus XP for use of NARC, etc.

[Riptor]

I think light mechs will become much more important if Piranha goes through with the changes to overall gameplay that they anounced.

In normal BT you have very basic sensors and ECM and ECM countermessures.

If they put more thought into electronic warfare like they said they would then light mechs could easaly become necesary for a successfull guild. See before being seen is most easaly achievable with a light low profile mech that can dodge behind terrain more easaly then bigger mechs.

[Cyttorak]

That brings up another point: if you want to encourage more people to use lights, how about just increasing their XP gain rate?
Then, you can have most people start in lights and work their way up...just like happens in the fictional universe.