204 replies to this topic

[cyberFluke]

From the last time this came up...

cyberFluke, on 20 May 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

But on topic, I own four (a 9M (Pacman), AWS-8QQ, an 8V, and an 8T). From their history I expected them to be one of the premier IS energy weapon based assaults, boy was I disappointed on a grand scale. Somehow, the AWS CT appears wider than an Atlas CT and Side Torso put together, I mean it very probably isn't, but it sure feels like it... I'm aware it's not supposed to be a front line mech but it still dies far more readily than it should.

That aside, it's outperformed in *every* way as a long range heavy energy platform by the Stalker, which is generally a mid to long range missile/energy mix, renowned for it's heat issues.

The answer to this in my mind is to rework the "quirks" of the different chassis and the "pilot lab" mech XP trees. Use them to give the 'mechs their intended flavour.
Some examples: (Pure conjecture to give a feel for the idea)
Give the AWS some kind of heat dissipation or energy weapon affinity quirks with various heat, energy(/missile?) weapon and long range firing skills to unlock for them in the pilot lab.
The CAT could get missile weapon affinity and maneuverability/Jumpjet quirks with missile weapon, targeting and jumpjet skills in the pilot lab.

What do people think?

Edited by cyberFluke, 25 May 2013 - 03:21 PM.

[Umbra8]

Merchant, on 25 May 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Which looks better, this?
http://mwomercs.com/...emech-8-awesome

Or this?
https://mwtactics.co...-3D-Bio-Awesome

As for Stalkers, this?
http://mwomercs.com/...mech-12-stalker

Or this?
https://mwtactics.co...-3D-Bio-Stalker

Given that the second Stalker looks like it was made by Mattel and should come complete with foam darts and 'authentic karate chop action' I'll vote for the former, thanks.

[MonkeyCheese]

Merchant, on 25 May 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Which looks better, this?
http://mwomercs.com/...emech-8-awesome

Or this?
https://mwtactics.co...-3D-Bio-Awesome

As for Stalkers, this?
http://mwomercs.com/...mech-12-stalker

Or this?
https://mwtactics.co...-3D-Bio-Stalker

Is tactics an online version of the tabletop game or is it a game for 10 year olds?

Anyway I dirve my 9m all the time and it mostly dies from back or front ct damage.

[CancR]

Awesome(s) don't need buffing, Tonnage limits need to be added.

All mechs will have an increase in purpose when all players are unable to take the biggest mechs.

This will deepen and keep the meta-game changing as naturally, some mechs counter other mechs which counter other mechs which counter other mechs, which will be a BIG improvement over the stagnate and repulsive ftp model all ftp game seem to suffer from: The biggest hp pool also does the most damage and thus wins with the least amount of skill.

[xengk]

MonkeyCheese, on 25 May 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

Is tactics an online version of the tabletop game or is it a game for 10 year olds?

MWTactic is an online version of the TT.
The battelmechs are unusually shinny like a brand new car, but you can apply paint and decal to make less/more toy like.

http://youtu.be/q325md8JS_E

Edited by xengk, 25 May 2013 - 07:58 PM.

[KiXneeL]

Awesomes are like a harder hitting medium. If your going toe to toe with other assaults your doing it wrong.
I like them the way they are, they are powerful mechs given the right pilot and situation.

[Voidcrafter]

Well the only thing that comes to mind is giving more missile tubes to it - so it can finaly launch the number of rockets it has mounted in one volley.
That would actually put it in line with the assault chasis that's currently in - someone told me that if the 9M could fire 14 SRMs with a single volley that would be OP...
Now we have only one assault that can mount LESS PPCs than the (normal, average, etc...)AWESOME - putting back the SRMs in the game and adjusting the AWESOME capability of firing more missiles on a single burst would fix things for me.
I really love the mech, I dare to say I'm a good pilot of it - but even with that in mind while in the cockpit I feel like piloting a heavy mech.
Times were better before the poptarding/PPC boating begin, but even then while engaged in close by a damaged Atlas(damaged enough for any other heavy to kill it) this mech failed badly.
Nope - I don't say weither it was designed for a brawl, nor that it should be - but it doesn't really have any stomping power, and if you look at the hardpoints you'll get to the conclusion that there just ain't a fast variant, that could make use of the SRMs, which I think would pair up with the appearance of the AWS very well.

Sorry PGI mates for my statement, but in my eyes the missile hardpoints-tubes-number/variant ratio is just silly - I can clearly see that the intension was to cut off the overpowered build, but the word "overpowered" kinda shifted with the time passed didn't it
And our poor guy(the AWS) just can't match with it...

[Adridos]

Just putting this out here: http://wiki.mechlivi...p?title=Awesome

What you see there is Awesome. A walking barn door with the most imposing PPC arsenal of every IS mech you could meet on the battlefield. It holds it's own even against Clan mechs themselves...

Why can't we have Awesome as well? Oh, right... mechlab.

[Zaptruder]

Unfortunately, the quirk system is limited to mech mobility. Better torso twist angles and quicker torso for now maybe; allows the Awesome to avoid shots to its bulky torso a little better than it could otherwise.

If they ever get around to upgrading it, then it should be a prime candidate for some of the fixes mentioned in this thread. Better heat cooling. Lower refire rate for the first PPC in its PPC canon slots.

[Nexus Omega]

More Hard Points!!

[Divine Retribution]

The Awesome isn't viable? Maybe not as a brawler thanks to the SRM nerf. But as a PPC platform it still does fine.

An Awesome isn't a Stalker, stop trying to force them to be equal. The Stalker is 5 tons heavier (if tonnage rather than class is ever considered, *cough* devs *cough*). Both can carry the same number of PPCs and DHS (usually 4 PPCs and 18 DHS, with 6 PPCs generally turning into a bad idea on either). The Awesome is easy to hit from the front and back, but has good coverage from the sides. Where the Awesome is a barn door, the Stalker is a barn. Who can't hit the broad side of a barn? It's just a shame mechs have to face each other to fire. The Awesome is also far more maneuverable than the Stalker, as any light pilot can probably attest to.

The 8R and 9M were decent brawlers (I ran 2 ERPPC and 4SRM6 w/art on my 8R) up until the SRM nerf. But that's a weapon issue, not a chassis issue. If anything I'd say the mech is slightly too large, creating large hitboxes. The other assaults also have straightforward (but smaller) hitboxes except the Stalker, which is the main cause of Stalker survivability. A bonus to heat dissipation isn't the answer, especially not a 20%+ boost, because I (and likely many others) would just have a field day with it.

If the mech size and hitboxes stay the same and the devs really wanted to give it some bonus, there is one option I can think of: Give Awesomes another 3 crit slots in each side torso. Then the oddly large size is represented and there is the potential for Awesomes to carry two more DHS than a comparable Stalker, but at the cost of tonnage of the two tons. The internal capacity of mechs is already nonsensical, what with a Commando having the same internal capacity as an Atlas, so it doesn't make much difference from my perspective. It also wouldn't change any stock loadout. But even if left as it is, I will still prefer running PPCs with an 8Q rather than a Stalker.

[Der BruzZzler von Wiesndoof]

Adridos, on 25 May 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

Awesome is a massive PPC boat. Unless something changes drastically with the mechlab, you can't make balanced Awesome. The only thing that remains is to replace the mech with some that isn't broken by mechlab.

^ THIS!

Btw: I like my 8Q. It isn't to easy handle, but that makes the difference...

Edited by The Birdeater, 26 May 2013 - 06:56 AM.

[NRP]

CancR, on 25 May 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

Awesome(s) don't need buffing, Tonnage limits need to be added.

All mechs will have an increase in purpose when all players are unable to take the biggest mechs.

I've thought about this, and I don't think tonnage limits will solve anything; in fact, they'll make the Awesome's life worse. In my experience, the Awesomes (particularly the 9M and PB) do better against other Assaults because they can out flank/out maneuver them. If the Awesome was forced to face only smaller, faster mechs, it would get wrecked a lot more. Besides, restricting peoples' choices as to which mech to bring is the wrong path.

So I don't think tonnage limits are the answer. Rather, the Awesome chassis itself needs to be more viable. As has been stated by many others, the Awesome needs two things: more firepower and better survivability. Since PGI won't change the hard points, the only way to give them more firepower is to increase the default heat threshold and heat dissipation rate. Since PGI won't change the 3D model, the only way to improve survivability is to tweak the hit boxes.

[Wildstreak]

I thought of something better.

I have been using new ways of outfitting Awesomes roughly based on stock loadouts, tending towards longer range weapons (LLs, PPCs, LRMs) not to snipe or boat but to fight at longer ranges than typical brawlers. When you look at the stock loadouts, they seem to support this. Fighting at longer ranges makes you smaller in enemy view and harder to hit.

So I thought giving a heat bonus for weapons that fit this, for starters -1 heat per weapon for using LLs, PPCs and LRMs.

Stock loadouts:
8Q: 3PPCs, SL
8R: LL, 2LRM15, SL
8T: 2LL, 2LRM15, SL
8V: PPC, LL, LRM15, SL
9M: 3ERPPC, 2SSRM, MRL, SPL
PB: PPC, LRM15, LL, ML

All seem to fit what I described, lots of long range weapons.

MonkeyCheese, on 25 May 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

Is tactics an online version of the tabletop game or is it a game for 10 year olds?

Anyway I dirve my 9m all the time and it mostly dies from back or front ct damage.

TT combined with CCG roughly seen here and at this link is a video of graphics from a game.

[TipsyMcSwaggart]

I concur with some of the thoughts here, but there is one thing people are omitting to mention : How the mech is used.

In reality, its a support mech. Designed not to slug it out with Atlas' and HGNS, but to hang back while those meatsheilds suck up dmg, supporting them. Thus PPCs & LRMS.

I don't think the chassis needs a buff, although i will admit i feel like an apple at a juicebox factory some days, but people need to alter their playstyle to the mechs strength.

IMHO, If you are looking to build a slugger out of the AWS, the biggest obstacle is the crit slots & weapon hardpoints. You simply don't have enough to load up to go toe to toe with other assaults and survive.

In conclusion, the big buff that is needed for it to be viable ?

Stop playing the AWS like an Atlas. Stop trying to make it the armored fist.

Start using it the way it is built, a good support mech, meant to back up and help other assaults.

[Keifomofutu]

TipsyMcSwaggart, on 26 May 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

I concur with some of the thoughts here, but there is one thing people are omitting to mention : How the mech is used.

In reality, its a support mech. Designed not to slug it out with Atlas' and HGNS, but to hang back while those meatsheilds suck up dmg, supporting them. Thus PPCs & LRMS.

I don't think the chassis needs a buff, although i will admit i feel like an apple at a juicebox factory some days, but people need to alter their playstyle to the mechs strength.

IMHO, If you are looking to build a slugger out of the AWS, the biggest obstacle is the crit slots & weapon hardpoints. You simply don't have enough to load up to go toe to toe with other assaults and survive.

In conclusion, the big buff that is needed for it to be viable ?

Stop playing the AWS like an Atlas. Stop trying to make it the armored fist.

Start using it the way it is built, a good support mech, meant to back up and help other assaults.

Anyone not honeybadgering with a 9M does use it like a support mech. Stalker blows it out of the water in that respect. Awesome is an incredibly easy target to hit even at long range while Stalker is almost hax by comparison. People see an awesome and know what an easy target it is. So it ends up focus fired very quickly. Stalker is the opposite and takes forever to die because it's impossible to focus the CT.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 26 May 2013 - 08:13 AM.

[jakucha]

Umbra8, on 25 May 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

Given that the second Stalker looks like it was made by Mattel and should come complete with foam darts and 'authentic karate chop action' I'll vote for the former, thanks.

I'm not a fan of MW Tacitcs art style either, but the gameplay is very different and meant for a different crowd than MWO.

MonkeyCheese, on 25 May 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

Is tactics an online version of the tabletop game or is it a game for 10 year olds?

It's tabletop in video game form, with the equipment/pilots coming from a booster pack sort of system. I actually like the card system it uses. Game is still pretty close to alpha phase but it's cool so far.

Edited by jakucha, 26 May 2013 - 08:38 AM.

[jay35]

Soy, on 25 May 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

Stop sucking with it would be my first recommendation.

I say this cuz roughly 98% of AWS users suck with it.

Maybe that's a sign the chassis needs some help, if only 2% of AWS pilots are able to do anything decent with it. And as I'm apparently one of that 2% (since I'm fairly happy with how the AWS performs and 5 of the 6 variants I own are higher than a 1.0 KDR), I agree that it needs some help.

Edited by jay35, 26 May 2013 - 08:41 AM.

[Culler]

Really they just need to rescale all the mechs to be more appropriately sized. It wouldn't even be hard, just assume roughly equal density for all the mechs and scale the volume of their mech to the tonnage it's supposed to be, using the Atlas to create the scale. Stalkers will grow some, Awesomes will shrink some, Centurions will shrink some, Cicadas will shrink, etc. There will be a lot of size reductions in the smaller end of the mech spectrum, which should help avoid some hits for the little guys.

[WolvesX]

Culler, on 26 May 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

Really they just need to rescale all the mechs to be more appropriately sized. It wouldn't even be hard, just assume roughly equal density for all the mechs and scale the volume of their mech to the tonnage it's supposed to be, using the Atlas to create the scale. Stalkers will grow some, Awesomes will shrink some, Centurions will shrink some, Cicadas will shrink, etc. There will be a lot of size reductions in the smaller end of the mech spectrum, which should help avoid some hits for the little guys.

This would be a good first step, but they said they won'T do it