106 replies to this topic

[LordBraxton]

I just have never noticed what the OP is complaining about.

any mech that used a standard engine can absorb huge amounts of damage through it's 'dead' side torsos

some mechs just have CTs that are harder to hit

I see no bug here

I think the OP is just sad that his hunchback sucks

guess what? all mediums suck

OP then admits he does not pilot centurions

go pilot some cents and realize they die just as quick as all the other oversized medium mechs

there is no bug here

if you try to core a stalker through it's big fat dead side torso, it is going to take more hits to kill

the centurion just has a decent hitbox allocation for it's size

I repeat

there is no bug here

[Jman5]

Braxton, the issue is not that this is a bug. The issue is that some mechs like the Centurion have massive amounts of arm debris that make coring it much harder than other mediums. The Hunchback does not get torso wide arm debris to protect his side torso and center torso. Nor does the Trebuchet, blackjack, any many other mechs that are known for being frail.

I am perfectly fine leaving the Centurion as is, but the developers should level the playing field and bump up the arm debris on the other mechs as well. On average the Centurion is living much much longer than his medium counterparts because of this arm debris discrepancy. I'm not sure if you just don't understand what we're talking about or if you're simply trying to defend the mech you like to use, but you aren't living in reality if you think the centurion is just as fragile as the hunchback.

Again, it's not that the Centurion is imbalanced by itself. The problem is that it's imbalanced when compared with other mediums.

Edited by Jman5, 28 May 2013 - 11:43 AM.

[Deathlike]

Mikros04, on 28 May 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

I think that this is working as intended, and hope will not be changed.

If I was sword fighting someone to the death, I would have to assume some diminishing returns when continually hacking the same wounded arm of my oppenent.

Tis' only a flesh wound!

[Mikros04]

Jman5, on 28 May 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

Braxton, the issue is not that this is a bug. The issue is that some mechs like the Centurion have massive amounts of arm debris that make coring it much harder than other mediums. The Hunchback does not get torso wide arm debris to protect his side torso and center torso. Nor does the Trebuchet, blackjack, any many other mechs that are known for being frail.

I am perfectly fine leaving the Centurion as is, but the developers should level the playing field and bump up the arm debris on the other mechs as well. On average the Centurion is living much much longer than his medium counterparts because of this arm debris discrepancy. I'm not sure if you just don't understand what we're talking about or if you're simply trying to defend the mech you like to use, but you aren't living in reality if you think the centurion is just as fragile as the hunchback.

Again, it's not that the Centurion is imbalanced by itself. The problem is that it's imbalanced when compared with other mediums.

Given the relative size of the arms on the Centurion, it's fitting that they will leave bigger stumps to get in the way. But I do agree with you that Centurions are out of balance, but not for the same reason. I think what makes them out of balance is the number of critical slots in the side torsos given the physical size of the side torsos themselves. I should not be able to fit an XL engine + 3 SRM6+Artemis in one side torso that is that small.

Edited by Mikros04, 28 May 2013 - 12:04 PM.

[Fuggles]

Sounds like a bunch of whiny raven 3l pilots trying to justify why they deserve to be op scared they are going to get their crux taken away.

[Trauglodyte]

This is really, yet again, another issue with the overall problem of hit boxes. Hit boxes and art work don't need to 100% be the same. Its why mechs like the Awesome are a little weaker then they probably should be while others, like the Cent, enjoy a little more freedom then they should. Balance goes way beyond weapons and damage done.

[Yiazmat]

You guys are silly. You're upset about a 50 ton mech with only 4-5 small weapon hardpoints because their hit box is 'wonky'? I've made several posts in threads like this that I can't find anymore, so I'll reiderate. The 50% to 25% dmg transfers are working as intended, and they make since. Take a sticked out Cent running around with his 2 ML. You shoot a LL at him as he twists to the left and you shoot through his arm parts and left torso parts. Those parts are still there, even if they're non-functional. Just because it's broken and not moving doesn't mean they cant absorb 7 dmg worth of fire of the 9 on the LL.

I mean, if YOU were hiding behind a crippled tank and a whole company of bad guys are shooting at that tank, wouldn't you be prity pissed if the laws of physics just said "meh" and let all those bullets go through that tank like it didn't exist to hit you? Sure, it's inopperable, but it's mass is still there to absorb fire.

But, I digress, you people will complain about anything that makes aiming harder.

So, here. I'll help you out. WHEN FIGHTING A CENTURIAN, AIM FOR HIS LEGS. Yeah, problem solved. Stop gripeing about 50 ton brawlers that have a hard enough time in game, and go make a usefull thread about 45-55 point alpha builds and popdrups. Those are what's making this into another COD shooter and moving further and further away from MechWarrior.

Edited by Yiazmat, 29 May 2013 - 10:32 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

Yiazmat, on 29 May 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

You guys are silly. You're upset about a 50 ton mech with only 4-5 small weapon hardpoints because their hit box is 'wonky'? I've made several posts in threads like this that I can't find anymore, so I'll REITERATE. The 50% to 25% dmg transfers are working as intended, and they make SENSE. Take a sticked out Cent running around with his 2 ML. You shoot a LL at him as he twists to the left and you shoot through his arm parts and left torso parts. Those parts are still there, even if they're non-functional. Just because it's broken and not moving doesn't mean they cant absorb 7 dmg worth of fire of the 9 on the LL.

I mean, if YOU were hiding behind a crippled tank and a whole company of bad guys are shooting at that tank, wouldn't you be PRETTY pissed if the laws of physics just said, "meh" and let all those bullets go through that tank like it didn't exist to hit you? Sure, it's IMPROBABLE, but it's mass is still there to absorb fire.

But, I digress, you people will complain about anything that makes aiming harder.

So, here. I'll help you out. WHEN FIGHTING A CENTURIAN, AIM FOR HIS LEGS. Yeah, problem solved. Stop GRIPING about 50 ton brawlers that have a hard enough time in game and go make a usefull thread about 45-55 point alpha builds and POPTARTS. Those are what's making this into another COD shooter and moving further and further away from MechWarrior.

Fixed some stuff for ya there.

Damage transfer is working as intended and we all know that. The problem is, though, that some mechs have a greater amount of damaged area once a component is destroyed. This, much like hit boxes and surface area on several mechs, is problematic and puts some mechs on a better survivability table then others. Compare the width of the Hunchback arm to that of the Centurion - the Hunchy's arms are MUCH thinner and that is fine. Blow off an arm from each one and then look at how much debris is left from each - the Cent, again, has a much breater surface area on which damage can be soaked.

Now, you bring up legs and that is all fine and good. Unfortunately, when you blow off a leg, it is still capable of moving and if you're using a beam weapon, some of the damage will land on the already destroyed leg. This, much like arms, becomes an issue when said mech has extremely thick legs.

Nobody is crying about the issue of damage transfer. What people are stating is that these types of things should be equal if it is possible.



PS> Centurions are not designed to be brawlers. Mechlab mad scientists have turned the Cent into a brawler back when SRMs were broken.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 29 May 2013 - 10:57 AM.

[Yiazmat]

Trauglodyte, on 29 May 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

Stuff

hah, yeah, my spelling is horrid. Also, not all mechs are created equal. So no, they should not have the same hitbox as a hunchback. Stop being silly.

P.S. I spelt popdrups like that for a reasion. Durp.

Edited by Yiazmat, 29 May 2013 - 01:07 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

What is a popdrup? You've got me honestly curious. I spent 7 years as a "huntard" so I'm struggling to decypher this one

[Hayashi]

From objections about whether or not the testing grounds are valid for proving a bug, now to saying that the broken boxes should be left broken...

I'm beginning to think that some players are completely disinterested in the idea of balance at all.

[Yiazmat]

Hayashi, on 29 May 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

From objections about whether or not the testing grounds are valid for proving a bug, now to saying that the broken boxes should be left broken...

I'm beginning to think that some players are completely disinterested in the idea of balance at all.

They're not broken, you shoot an arm that's off, it transfers into the L/R toro, if that's gone, it goes further into the CT with DR's. Get PGI to work on something that's really messed up in this game: Like perfict accuracy while JJ'ing or lack of Heat penalties.

[Ravingdork]

That's odd. People don't seem to have any difficulty killing me in my Centurian.

[SgtFlex]

It's just because they have good speed and turning ability and you "glance" the torso with "hits".. that is all.. if you hit it "straight on" .. they go booom!

[LordBraxton]

Instead of asking for a FIX

the op should be asking for a buff to his beloved huncback.

I think the hunch is fine, it has tons of weapon slots in exchange for its wonky hitboxes

I believe every medium needs help almost equally

the hunch's hunch will always make it less survivable than the centurion

asking to ruin the centurion's only advantage is ridiculous

lets face it, the cent only has 1 arm with weapons, and in general less weapon slots than any other 50 tonner

it's ability to shield itself is its only boon

my problem with this thread is that

It reads like a hunchback pilot jealous that the centurion has better posture

how about we add battle value to the game so mediums have a role besides hard mode?

Hayashi, on 29 May 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

From objections about whether or not the testing grounds are valid for proving a bug, now to saying that the broken boxes should be left broken...

I'm beginning to think that some players are completely disinterested in the idea of balance at all.

NOTHING IS BROKEN

its just how the cents hitboxes are layed out

it makes it more durable than hunchbacks

only SLIGHTLY more durable than trebuchets

just shoot the centurion in its HUGE groin

every mech has weakspots lets not go ADDING more weak spots to a MEDIUM

once again you are looking at this from the wrong angle

the system is working fine

you just realized that the centurion has better hitboxes

Edited by LordBraxton, 29 May 2013 - 03:20 PM.

[Zakie Chan]

LOL

Like any mech you need to read the loadout/mech type to know your best hit locations. On a centurion a leg low armour and always has ammo...

[Menetius]

Just ran a test to see if this was true.

Using a spider, I fired at the left shoulder-sponson with a pair of medium pulse lasers from a distance of a mere 90m.

With left torso and left arm missing, it took me 13 shots (all focused on the left shoulder, considered part of the left arm) to eliminate the Centurion's center-torso armor. Not core it, just strip its armor.

Let's do some math.

At 90m, the MPL does its full 6 damage. I was using two, so that's 12 damage per shot. 13 times 12 is... 156 raw damage dealt, ignoring the damage-reduction system in place for firing through destroyed mech sections.

The centurion, assuming all hits land on its arm-nub, can take more CT damage than an Atlas.

And my calculations don't even take into account the damage I had to do to eliminate the torso and arm.

In short, this is very, very wrong. The role of a medium is not tanking. And the Centurion is capable of doing just that.

Edited by Menetius, 29 May 2013 - 09:20 PM.

[Yiazmat]

Menetius, on 29 May 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

Just ran a test to see if this was true.

Using a spider, I fired at the left shoulder-sponson with a pair of medium pulse lasers from a distance of a mere 90m.

With left torso and left arm missing, it took me 13 shots (all focused on the left shoulder, considered part of the left arm) to eliminate the Centurion's center-torso armor. Not core it, just strip its armor.

Let's do some math.

At 90m, the MPL does its full 6 damage. I was using two, so that's 12 damage per shot. 13 times 12 is... 156 raw damage dealt, ignoring the damage-reduction system in place for firing through destroyed mech sections.

The centurion, assuming all hits land on its arm-nub, can take more CT damage than an Atlas.

And my calculations don't even take into account the damage I had to do to eliminate the torso and arm.

In short, this is very, very wrong. The role of a medium is not tanking. And the Centurion is capable of doing just that.

But how many shots would it take to destroy the CT of an Atlas with 115 armor by shooting it's arm stub? Hmm? Atli do it too. Working. As. Intended. Learn to shoot.

[Menetius]

Yiazmat, on 30 May 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

But how many shots would it take to destroy the CT of an Atlas with 115 armor by shooting it's arm stub? Hmm? Atli do it too. Working. As. Intended. Learn to shoot.

The Atlas would have a much tougher time doing so, given its poor maneuverability in comparison to a Centurion, as well as the comparatively smaller arm-nub left behind when said component is destroyed. The centurion can also put said destroyed limbs in the way of fire much easier than any assault, other than maybe the Stalker.

I suppose I shouldn't complain, though; I've never had this problem outside of a controlled test. Very few mechs can take a hit from 5xSRM6 or damage penetration that ignores armor from the AC/20, even when it bleeds through torsos.

Edited by Menetius, 30 May 2013 - 10:35 AM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Menetius, on 30 May 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

The Atlas would have a much tougher time doing so, given its poor maneuverability in comparison to a Centurion, as well as the comparatively smaller arm-nub left behind when said component is destroyed. The centurion can also put said destroyed limbs in the way of fire much easier than any assault, other than maybe the Stalker.

I suppose I shouldn't complain, though; I've never had this problem outside of a controlled test. Very few mechs can take a hit from 5xSRM6 or damage penetration that ignores armor from the AC/20, even when it bleeds through torsos.

Actually the Atlas is another mech with a gigantic "leftover" arm hit box after the arm is blown off. The arm extends inward from the "shoulder" section a significant way.