78 replies to this topic

[hammerreborn]

After all, seismic is a must have module that allows you to see everyone 400m around you completely negating tactics whatsoever, and is basically wall hack, just like ECM was a must have equipment.

A person with seismic has a huge advantage over someone who doesn't, just like people argued with ECM.

There are no counters to seismic other than JJs, while there are a ton for ECM now.


So wheres the hate?


Oh right, because it hurts lights instead of helping.

[WhiteRabbit]

might be that everyone's busy ppc-sniping and lrm boating and doesn't get as close as 400m

[AntiCitizenJuan]

People are butt.hurt about many wanting it nerfed, because they spent 17000 GXP and 6 million in virtual currency to get it. Like that justifies using the most overpowered piece of equipment to date.

The **** is OP, its gonna get nerfed because it has to get nerfed.

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 25 May 2013 - 03:11 PM.

[Dagada]

every mech can use it. it doesnt cause an arms race. and it doesnt negate weapon systems or remove situational awareness of team mates like ecm used to do. Everyone who plays long enough can get it with gxp and cbils and slot it into a mech every mech has atleast one module slot.

i think that about sums it up.

[Chavette]

Only a few variants could equip ecm, all can equip seismic. Anything else you'd like to know?

[OneEyed Jack]

Seismic doesn't shut off any weapons or hide where your own team is.

Until we have another way to see behind us, I think your cries that you don't get free shots into the back of every heavy/assault with the 6 ML on your Jenner will fall on deaf ears.

[Dexion]

Dagada, on 25 May 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

every mech can use it. it doesnt cause an arms race. and it doesnt negate weapon systems or remove situational awareness of team mates like ecm used to do. Everyone who plays long enough can get it with gxp and cbils and slot it into a mech every mech has atleast one module slot.

i think that about sums it up.

^ That's about it.

Btw: I agree, it needs adjustment. I'm a fan of the idea you should need to be standing still (or moving under 50% throttle) for it to work.

[Vassago Rain]

It's 15k GXP and 6 million.

Most will NEVER have access to it, while those of us who do know how OP it is.

[Namouche]

Most will never have it?
lots have it already.
just keep playing and you'll get there.

[hammerreborn]

Dagada, on 25 May 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

every mech can use it. it doesnt cause an arms race. and it doesnt negate weapon systems or remove situational awareness of team mates like ecm used to do. Everyone who plays long enough can get it with gxp and cbils and slot it into a mech every mech has atleast one module slot.

i think that about sums it up.

It does cause an arms race. Right now if you don't have seismic you are clearly disadvantaged, which is causing people to grind out GXP JUST to get it.

And if "100% of 3Ls use ECM so its clearly OP", what does it say when "100% of all mechs use seismic"? That's magnitudes worse for the game than ECM. Choosing a 3L over a Jenner or any other mech was a choice, specifically for ECM. True, the 3L also enjoyed poor netcode and hitbox detection, but these days you see far less 3Ls and far more Jenners, because ECM just isn't worth the trade off anymore.

With seismic, there is no trade off. The only argument could be that it punishes variants with less than 4 module slots.

Quote

Seismic doesn't shut off any weapons or hide where your own team is.

ECM never shut off any weapons system. LRMs could still be dumbfired, and there were plenty of counters.

If you want to argue ECM within 180 renders LRMs moot, then you could also argue that seismic renders an entire class moot, as all but spiders and some joke builds run close ranged weaponry that seismic prevents from even getting into firing range without detection.

OneEyed Jack, on 25 May 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

Seismic doesn't shut off any weapons or hide where your own team is.

Until we have another way to see behind us, I think your cries that you don't get free shots into the back of every heavy/assault with the 6 ML on your Jenner will fall on deaf ears.

So basically, haha screw lights, like my OP said.

[cyberFluke]

My scout spider is GOD with the seismic and Enhanced Sensor Range. ESR doesn't boost seismic, but I am actually a scout, y'know.. I rarely get jumped without warning now.

Engage brain before opening mouth next time.

[Thorqemada]

Seismic is very powerfull and makes it impossible to sneak up...i have no idea how that can be balanced bcs it can not.
"Standing Still" is no balancing act for the user of seismic bcs most Mechs you sneak up rarely move much...

[Squid von Torgar]

Meh I like it, I dont think its OP, after all you need an outlay to get it and atm most players are fielding Lrm boats or poptarts, which it is useful for but not massively. It is by far the best module to date, but hey the others were pretty lacklustre to begin with.

[Umbra8]

Dagada, on 25 May 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

every mech can use it. it doesnt cause an arms race. and it doesnt negate weapon systems or remove situational awareness of team mates like ecm used to do. Everyone who plays long enough can get it with gxp and cbils and slot it into a mech every mech has atleast one module slot.

i think that about sums it up.

I agree with everything that's stated here and have a long long LONG hatred of ECM and it's implementation (and still do), but I'm going to agree with the OP here, in principle. There are many issues with ECM but one of the fundamental issues has to do with the mechanics of how game elements are introduced and executed in a game. Any game feature that adds concrete benefits to the detriment of skilled play or execution is a poorly designed feature. What I mean by this is any feature added to a game should encourage skilled, risky or innovative play in order to gain the benefits of that feature. If a feature is instead added that punishes skilled, risky or innovative play without a commensurate risk to the user then you've added a feature that dumbs down gameplay for everyone, the people that use the feature and the people who have it used against them. ECM broke this tenant when it was introduced by providing massive benefits to limited chassis with no commensurate risk and negligible cost. It removed game elements without really replacing them with something richer. The seismic module does much the same. It imposes a penalty to stealth play and solo scouting (already a risky endeavour) for a cost that is paid outside of the match. Anyone can grind to get the equipment, but there is no in-game risk to it's use, nor even any weight/heat/crit allotment costs and as such only removes game elements without commensurate penalty or providing any alternative that also enriches play.

Edited by Umbra8, 25 May 2013 - 03:48 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

finally a module that prevents dumb people from running headlong into 8 enemies, and the whining continues.

[OneEyed Jack]

hammerreborn, on 25 May 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

It does cause an arms race. Right now if you don't have seismic you are clearly disadvantaged, which is causing people to grind out GXP JUST to get it.

Ermehgerd! It's forcing people to play the game?!?! Call the President!

hammerreborn, on 25 May 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

And if "100% of 3Ls use ECM so its clearly OP", what does it say when "100% of all mechs use seismic"?

Not 100% of mechs are using it, and not just because the players can't afford it. I could afford to put it in every mech I own, but I don't. And there will be more modules, forcing more choices. So stop with the Doomsday "every mech will use it forever" spiel.

hammerreborn, on 25 May 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

.
With seismic, there is no trade off. The only argument could be that it punishes variants with less than 4 module slots.

Punish? No. Mechs have trade-offs, one of which is module slots. How does that make it "no trade off"? That stupid punishment logic could be applied to every possible advantage in the game. "Lights are punished for not being Assaults by having less weapons/armor!" "Assaults are punished for not being Lights by being slower!" See? Stupid.

hammerreborn, on 25 May 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

ECM never shut off any weapons system. LRMs could still be dumbfired, and there were plenty of counters.

Seriously? "LRMs can be dumbfired" is your argument? I don't even know how to respond to that in a way you'd understand.

hammerreborn, on 25 May 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

If you want to argue ECM within 180 renders LRMs moot, then you could also argue that seismic renders an entire class moot, as all but spiders and some joke builds run close ranged weaponry that seismic prevents from even getting into firing range without detection.

OK, so you can't get close without detection. Maybe you have to use your speed and keep moving, instead of sneaking up and standing there to line up the perfect back-shot. Cry me a freakin' river. Something 20+ tons should not be able to stomp along at <400 meters completely undetected, anyway. BattleMechs don't sneak.

[Budor]

Most players unfortunately dont know about it yet. Its gamebreakingly op in its current form imo.

Dumbs the game down. Id rather have it removed or nerfed hard ~100-150m. UAV (which is to expensive) would hopefully be used more often than.

Edited by Budor, 25 May 2013 - 04:05 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Whether or not it's OP......everyone can take it. That's clearly the reason for a lack of complaint about it. People like it (whether they'll cop to the fact that it is or is not OP) and they can take it on all variants. It's pretty obvious. If you want to complain that it's OP, that's different than your question above.

[Squid von Torgar]

Quote

UAV (which is to expensive) would hopefully be used more often than.

Depends what you mean. SS allows you to see through terrain so you can ambush/not get ambushed. UAV shares the info with the rest of the team. To give an example I was playing on Caustic, a scout runs right over the caldera and throws up a UAV, the enemy team then got LRM'd to death within a minute. It was audacious and very cool. Maybe its too early to call foul on either.

[General Taskeen]

So previous ECM defenders now realize how all these silly additions created an arms race... Hmm, how charming.

OneEyed Jack, on 25 May 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

Seriously? "LRMs can be dumbfired" is your argument? I don't even know how to respond to that in a way you'd understand.

FYI, the OP is an ECM apologist. ECM never prevented locks in Battle Tech, but it does in this game, so its a bit of a fallacy for apologists to say otherwise.

I'm sure a piece of equipment like Null Signature, that takes crit space and weight, and produces heat when "on" will be relegated to a simplistic module. Or if its added as mountable equipment, it'll be programmed to do something it never did. And people will defend it.

Edited by General Taskeen, 25 May 2013 - 04:13 PM.