649 replies to this topic

[Captain Nice HD]

I don't see "Kerensky's dependents, who dream of restoring the Star League... either of which is reason enough to have them shot on sight" on that list. The tainted legacy of their forefathers binds them to their fate irrevocably; we are born free.

[Vaquero]

Big Bad Guys.

[K Wilson]

I think my opinion was best laid out by the well-thought out writing known as 'Kerensky Was a ****'

http://bg.battletech...71.html#msg1071

And the 'children of' turned out to be blind sociopathic dicks that ended up Worse than the successor states, because they deliberately and systematically betrayed their own beliefs, as early as the Wolverine Eradication. Oh, you say that the Wolverines had it coming for the death of Nicholas Kerensky? Nicholas was not a warrior. He did not fight for his position, He did not earn his position. The Hypocrisy of the Clan way of life started before it was even fully formed.

The City of Edo, on Turtle Bay was an isolated incident, you say? Perhaps, but a reprimand is worth the lives of 1,500,000 civilians, according to the Clans.

So the only thing I can say of the clans? Target-Rich Environment. They can play at being soldiers, and individually they're good. but they have no idea what real conflict means, and ~that~ will bite them in the backside hard enough to make them cry for their mothers.

[Jack Gallows]

Each Clan and their quirks are interesting indeed, but they take their demands and their idea of superiority in all aspects of life too far. They have many admirable and honorable qualities, as do many of the factions of the Inner Sphere, but like that Inner Sphere they all have their faults just like the rest of us.

The Clans are an interesting threat to the Inner Sphere, and a great time period to explore and play in. I don't hate the Clans (Ghost Bear, woo), but I love the Houses more.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 08 November 2011 - 07:25 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

I would say it depends entirely on a clan by clan basis. Take the Jade Falcons and the Smoke Jaguar. They are vicious, heartless, and care for nothing but obtaining control of Terra. For them, option two fits best.

On the other hand, take the old Clan Wolf and Clan Nova Cat. Clans fundamentally based on might for right. They must beat out the other clans, for the negative ramifications of the Crusader clans winning are too inhumane to stand, and the current ways of the Inner Sphere too fragmented in mind and chaotic in function. For those of us who are Wardens, option three fits us best.

It is the nuances between the myriad clans that make us so interesting. We all stem from the same basic tenants, but our interpretation of them differ so wildly between our numbers. We are far from a two dimensional overall entity.

As for being honorable, elite warriors? Indiscretions happen in war. It is inevitable. However, as a rule, we do strive to maintain clean battles, with no wasted lives or material. Let the warriors fight, so that the non-combatants may live. Let the worthy isorla become recycled and reborn back into the warrior caste again. Zellbrigen exists for this reason.

If I recall correctly, it was the dezgra of your Inner Sphere who first broke our honor code, quiaff? Underhanded tactics, deception, and ganging up on individuals.... That is no way to find honor.

[Jack Gallows]

Pariah Devalis, on 08 November 2011 - 08:35 PM, said:

Zellbrigen exists for this reason.

If I recall correctly, it was the dezgra of your Inner Sphere who first broke our honor code, quiaff? Underhanded tactics, deception, and ganging up on individuals.... That is no way to find honor.

Calling someone dezgra without fully explaining the rules of Zellbrigen or your own honor code sounds a bit....illogical, does it not?

How can someone abide by your rules if you don't tell them what they are? If they refuse to listen, it could be based on the fact that you've chosen to invade their homes and their planets, honorable "intentions" or not. You bring war upon the IS, and are shocked when they'd defend their homes and their loved ones with everything they've got. Honor is a real comfort to people who are collateral damage.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 08 November 2011 - 08:57 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

If they chose to ignore the batchall broadcast upon our arrival in their systems, that cannot be blamed on us. If they chose to ignore a direct communication and request for an honorable duel from one of our warriors to one of yours or, worse, accepted only to engineer interference in the aforementioned duel, the blame is still to rest solely on your pilots' and your commanders' heads.

[Omega59er]

Hm. The Clans seemed to have good intentions while lead by Karensky, but they have now strayed from those teachings. We were once of the "Clans." But we now protect the Inner Sphere from their cruel malice. We are Wolf's Own.

[Jack Gallows]

Pariah Devalis, on 08 November 2011 - 09:01 PM, said:

If they chose to ignore the batchall broadcast upon our arrival in their systems, that cannot be blamed on us. If they chose to ignore a direct communication and request for an honorable duel from one of our warriors to one of yours or, worse, accepted only to engineer interference in the aforementioned duel, the blame is still to rest solely on your pilots' and your commanders' heads.

People aren't going to play nice and play dice with Clanners when entire planets are at stake. People aren't going to sit by to satisfy your honor just to be subjugated by invaders because you have some kind of code you want to force down everyone else's throats.

Showing up and commencing a war against the Inner Sphere isn't the people of the Inner Sphere's fault, it's the Clans misguided interpretation of Kerenky's wishes that's the culprit. If you have to twist his words to show that you should arrive to make war on an IS he left to STOP from destroying with his militaries, only to return to commit the exact thing he hated, then I think the Clans need to rethink exactly what they're doing. Are they doing it because it's the right thing to do...or because they *want* to do it? Do you really think you're so superior that you only have on option, and that's open war?

The Warden's figured it out, but the Crusaders screwed it up. All the Clan's managed to do was bring about some of their own ends, and kill countless billions upon billions of innocents and armed forces when they could have returned to the Inner Sphere and actually protected it instead of piling bodies at your own feet.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 08 November 2011 - 09:55 PM.

[avril omega]

Really what an unfair question?
Give us the option to call them what they really are barbarians with better guns.
The new bullies for the playground and take our lunch money.
And tell us its fair its all most like a bad country song.

[Doombane]

Let the Clan Ghost Bear breeding programs begin.

[Bubba Gump]

Well ive always respected the wardens of the clans like Wolf and Ghost Bear, they always treated their citizens well even though they think they are second class to the warrriors. You could still reason with wardens, but the crusaders like Jade Falcon or Smoke Jaguar who think i should worship them because they are born diffrient from myself. NEVER!!!! I say to them, I kneel to no man, face me if you dare.

[jojobear]

I always felt that the introduction of the clans was an attempt to do an "alien invasion" story theme in battletech without actually having an alien species. They even got a coat of Klingon paint with the whole warrior culture trope.

[WolfHound5223]

Honestly not all of us are bloodthirsty 'Bad Guys' clan Wolf is the only clan which opposed the clan invasion, lost the trial of refusal and we ended up being selected for the invasion force as punishment for our dissenting opinion.

Yet all I hear are IS, condemning all clans, lumping all clans into the same category regardless of the facts.

[ice trey]

To me the clans are... well...

Do you remember the abominable snowman from the old stop-motion Rudolf the Red-Nosed Reindeer Christmas special?

That was pretty much what the clans were during the invasion. A big, all-powerful, unstoppable force that had all the little forest creatures running. It trashed everything in it's path with reckless abandon.

Then a short little elf comes by and challenges it and rips out it's teeth, though in the clans case, it was like someone ripped out all it's baby-teeth that would take 15 years to grow back, and then they came back later to rip out every last adult tooth so they'd never have teeth again.

Now you've got this big bad monster that's been turned as meek as a lamb, barely a threat. It sort of made me feel sorry for them, as a faction. All that technology and nothing to do but turn on itself.

So to recap:

Clans during the Invasion


Clans after the great refusal

Edited by ice trey, 08 November 2011 - 11:32 PM.

[Captain Nice HD]

Jack Gallows, on 08 November 2011 - 09:50 PM, said:

People aren't going to play nice and play dice with Clanners when entire planets are at stake. People aren't going to sit by to satisfy your honor just to be subjugated by invaders because you have some kind of code you want to force down everyone else's throats.

This sounds so familiar. It's almost as if this has happened before, a long time ago. Oh yes, now I remember: the Star League did the exact same thing.

They came to conquer us 'for our own good'. They threw a fit that we did not abide by a peculiar set of conventions; a document which we had never signed on account of it legitimizing warfare and it being penned in the blood of our countrymen. It baffled them so that we did not simply submit. It was unfathomable to them that we would fight with such grim determination against such insurmountable odds; against the invader who had threatened our homes and our families. That we would not simply let Terra take what it did not own without a fight, even if that fight was destined to be a losing one that would cost us dearly before the end.

Different era. Different actors. Same hypocritical, self-righteous dogma. History repeats. And history has a taste for irony.

[CycKath]

Traitors to the Star League of old, abominations who refuse to acknowledge the Word of Blessed Blake, who we, our green troops, will eventually defeat on Tukayyid....

[Vaquero]

I've started watching episodes of the old Battletech cartoon series. Are the Clan really this bad? Blowing up farms and nearly blowing up the farmers, just because one of them took a shot (with a regular, human-sized gun at an Omnimech mind you) at them so that he could get the rest of his family to safety? Doesn't seem very honorable to me.

Keep in mind that I am fairly new to Battletech and its lore, and this show could be full of wild inaccuracies as shows based on other things sometimes are.

Edited by Vaquero, 09 November 2011 - 12:25 AM.

[Ufgt]

I don't know how anyone can hate the clans when they are genetically superior to everyone in the Inner Sphere.

Also, they have cooler stuffs.

[Hayden]

Just more foreign invaders: we'll stop them just like the rest.