89 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

thepartisan, on 01 June 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

I have a question for those who pilot Light mechs on a regular basis in regards to what seems like a White Mech.

The Deaths' Knell has piqued my curiosity for quite some time now, but I am still very unsure about the capabilities of it in general. Is there any players who piloted this mech with any degrees of success? If so, can you elaborate why this mech is decent when there is a lack of information on it in the forums?

TDK is one of the logical end points of the Commando line; the -2D has 3 missile, 1 energy hardpoint, the -1D and -3A have 2 missile, 2 energy, and the -1B has 1 missile, 3 energy. The TDK, of course, has 0 missile, 4 energy. The only variant we miss for the logic to be complete is a Commando with 4 missile and no energy hardpoints.

With 4 energy hardpoints on such a small 'mech there's not much you can do with it weapons-wise; its unique feature is those four hardpoints, so it seems a shame not to utilize them, and that means putting four energy weapons in it.

The build I currently run in mine uses a 195XL engine, Endo-Steel, 11 Double Heat Sinks, next to full armour (-2 points), and four Medium Pulse Lasers.

That gives you decent speed (126.4 kph, 139 kph with Speed Tweak), a 24-point alpha (delivered in 0.75 seconds), and while fragile and running a bit hot, it's a fun and surprisingly effective little Striker.

It's also dirt cheap MC-wise, and the CB you spend outfitting it (incidentally, it runs just fine as it comes off the assembly line) you'll make back in no time with its 30% CB boost.

Like every other Commando, it's not for the faint of heart. It's fragile; a well-aimed alpha from a heavy or assault (and even some mediums) will kill you outright or at least take an arm or a leg off. So don't get hit

I've found that using two firing buttons and putting the two MPLs in one arm on each button (mouse button 1 for left arm, mouse button 2 for right arm) makes it easy to both fire all four of them and to regulate your heat when things start to get hairy.

Play it as you would any other Commando: Always keep moving, never stop. Either go off to cap and then rejoin if you're playing Conquest, or stick relatively close to your team mates if you're playing assault; at least initially. You do NOT want to be the first thing the enemy team sees - that's a very, very bad idea for what currently is the lightest, least armoured 'mech on the field.

Once combat is joined by your fatter brethren, feel free to use your speed to flank around and take pot-shots, creating a bit of chaos. If you manage to **** someone off enough to turn and try to kill you, you've done your job. Hopefully your team mates will do theirs and kill the distracted enemy.

Anyway, that's the TDK in my eyes. A fast little Striker that - as all Commandos - have an undeservedly bad reputation.

But then of course I'm a bit biased; the TDK is the fifth Commando I'm mastering.

[DTheSleepless]

stjobe is mostly on point.

For reference, this is the TDK build I'm using: DEATH'S KNELL

I actually love the Commando chassis in general. You can argue there are things other chassis can do better, but what you're forgetting is that the Commando itself is extremely agile. It has the highest arm sweep radius in the game, and unlike other mechs with similar arm sweep (save maybe the Spider), it sweeps fast. I personally like how responsive the Commando is; unlike heavier mechs that you have to plan with, the Commando just does what you tell it to.

The TDK itself, if played properly, is a cash cow and it is absolutely my best mech. Some helpful tips:

- The Commando chassis as a whole and the TDK in particular is camouflage for idiots. Nobody cares about you. They're only really going to go after you if you look like easy prey, so as long as you're around something scarier (which isn't hard), you'll actually have pretty free rein.

- The 2D is the only Commando that should ever be used for scouting. Ever since SSRM2s were nerfed, he's actually not particularly powerful. Otherwise, hang with the team and only strike targets of opportunity.

- Pursuant to the 2D as the only scout-worthy Commando, keep in mind that the Commando itself is made out of paper mache and unicorn tears. If the enemy team sees you've wandered away from the herd, you're screwed, especially with HSR in effect.

- AMS is a waste of tonnage on a mech that can outrun LRMs.

- Take advantage of mechs that have lousy turning speeds. Stalkers have one scary side, but if you get behind one you can practically just sit behind him and core him to death.

So that's just basic Commando 101. The notion that a chassis is strictly better than another doesn't take into account player skill with a given chassis or eccentricities about how a chassis handles. The Jenner can throw more heat, but it's a bigger, juicier target, and it doesn't have the tight turning and arm speed a Commando does.

Now, my TDK? I switched to a Standard engine because I found it tangibly improved my survivability, and with speed tweak I'm still doing a robust 142kph. I didn't find MPLs justified the extra four tons and added heat; the MPL is good for dumping a lot of damage in one place fast, but the TDK (owing to the Commando's agility and arm sweep) is very good at holding a target for a protracted period of time. MPLs will be better for knife fighting other lights, but I typically roll my TDK so close to my team that if a light gets a bead on me it has to wander into a very treacherous line of fire.

Whenever I go after a target of opportunity (typically something either very slow like a Stalker or Atlas or something heavily engaged with a bigger, scarier teammate), I'll flank behind them, cut my throttle to maintain position behind them, and then just chainfire MLs into the back of their core. Likewise, if I find an enemy mech that's heavily damaged and exposed, a solid alpha strike can take them out of commission.

While "always move" is generally the rule for lights, you can just kill your throttle and sit behind a vulnerable target, pouring fire into their back if you're reasonably free and clear. If I have a target and no one chasing me off, all I really do is just match speed and maintain position.

Here's what I don't do: I sometimes but very rarely weave through enemy ranks to pepper them with fire, and I almost never play the squirrel. That's a Spider's job. I don't engage other lights; with HSR in effect a team full of decent players will be able to annihilate one that wanders too close to your ranks. I seldom do spotting unless I can do it while dangling behind the target like a tampon string and I'm certain nothing is going to pour fire in my back.

Last but not least, a word on circle strafing: don't do it unless your target is obviously a bad pilot. If you're being besieged by a light, cut your throttle and counterturn. A good dance with a light mech involves a lot of counterturning, and it's easiest and quickest to turn when your throttle is low.

[bmortime]

What D said I'd have to concur from a light perspective.
I am a jenner pilot, so my perspective is from one that has hunted them.

The two worst thing I've seen commandos, and especially TDKs is get into circle strafes with Jenners (a.k.a. me), and to get so focused on a kill they don't pay attention to their surroundings.

A Jenner just has more up front punch potential than a TDK, so getting into a static fight of circle strafing puts you at a disadvantage. I will leg you if you do that. You are more agile than I am, yes I can use my jump jets to do quick turns, but you are naturally more agile. Just cut your throttle a hair and your turn radius goes up!

Almost as bad, is just running straight away when I am chasing. You give me a juicy target, without having to worry about being shot and I will take it(you can use this to an advantage if you have a nice friendly Assault nearby that can help you before I carve your back out). Use cover, weave, bob. It makes it harder to kill you and hit you with my lasers. Turn that slightly more card-boarded section toward me when your lasers are charging up so I have to work my way through that before getting to the juicy middle.

Now not being a commando pilot, I do find AMS can be beneficial depending on what you keep running into. It helps greatly if you keep running into streakers, but I don't know if there is the tonnage in a commando to spare to equip one. Though speaking of Streaks, make sure you know what is on your enemy before approaching, if you go in and then notice streaks, you have a greater chance of being punished (I know it happens to me in mah jenner).

Ummm.. One fun thing I've done with DtheSleepless, is that we'll form a little half lance. I'll hop onto my JR7-K and 'tank' the enemy side while D finds ways to get behind them and carve them up. Just being a Jenner, I generally pull aggro, and am higher on most people's threat list. This makes it ideal when the two of us can get the jump on a couple heavies or assaults that don't have light protection nearby. Now I am too tired to post the build I usually use, but I always max out my JR7-K's armor and speed, and then add the rest. Usually its 4 ML or 4 MPL more to scare the enemy into going after me.
Its ton's of fun and when we do it one of us usually just calls Suicide run?

Ok back on topic, TDK. Keep an eye on your surroundings. I have come upon more than one TDK sitting still behind a missle boat or an assault, thinking they were safe from harm. They become fat, slow, cardboard targets that I carve up like a turkey dinner.

I guess the last thing I can throw in, from the perspective of a light hunter and light pilot, is you also have to watch out for players like me. I used to mock the commando, the TDK in particular. After DtheSleepless showed me how he could make them dance, I will come for you. You are a potential threat that can turn the tide of battle easily if ignored, and I built my JR7-D to hunt light mechs like you down first.

Above all, have fun. Everyone I've talked with and dropped with has their own personality that matches different mechs. Good luck out there. =D

[Koniving]

I actually found myself preferring small pulse lasers. 12 damage in half the time compared to 20 damage requiring a full second of being on target (or it spreads all over the place). With the SPL it's more like surgery. You deal your damage almost instantly to where you hit, and you rarely if ever have to worry about spread.

[ShinVector]

thepartisan, on 01 June 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

I have a question for those who pilot Light mechs on a regular basis in regards to what seems like a White Mech.

The Deaths' Knell has piqued my curiosity for quite some time now, but I am still very unsure about the capabilities of it in general. Is there any players who piloted this mech with any degrees of success? If so, can you elaborate why this mech is decent when there is a lack of information on it in the forums?

Honestly to be at this point of time, it is a waste of MC.

• Hard to deal full damage with lasers due to lag.
  
• No more repair and refit so, cheap or expensive mech means nothing to profit.
  
• Worst of all the chassis is bugged and will be instant cored by SSRM due to a mess of problems PGI has yet to fix.
  
• Also no jump jets.. hahaha..
  
• Either the Spider D or Jenner does it's thing better than a TDK.

Edited by ShinVector, 15 July 2013 - 01:28 AM.

[thepartisan]

Thanks for the input so far. It seems like the TDK might be a bit underwhelming to pilot. I will probably look at it at a later stage. BUt for now my Sarah's Jenner has been delivered as my primary light mech

[LordDante]

anybody that can survive in that bobblehead has my respect ( i say that as a dedicated spider pilot )

[Koniving]

You might reconsider it when light mechs are more worthwhile to use but in the current meta brought on by high heat capacities, I would not go for it right now.

That said, if you do go for it I recommend 4 small pulse lasers. Quick precision damage, barely a sound (goes unnoticed for a bit, too). When given a choice between you or something bigger they ignore you, allowing you to nestle between their legs and start cutting right through their backside.

[ShinVector]

Koniving, on 28 July 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

You might reconsider it when light mechs are more worthwhile to use but in the current meta brought on by high heat capacities, I would not go for it right now.

That said, if you do go for it I recommend 4 small pulse lasers. Quick precision damage, barely a sound (goes unnoticed for a bit, too). When given a choice between you or something bigger they ignore you, allowing you to nestle between their legs and start cutting right through their backside.

I dunno.. I feel 4 mediums is still the way to go.
I found that even 6 small pulse lasers felt underwhelming.

[Windsaw]

I use the Death's Knell as my most favourite mech and have done so for a long time.
Together with the 3A it is probably my most favourite mech.

For someone who is new to a Commando it may not be the best chassis. For those I would recommend a 3A which packs quite a punch with its SRM.
But the 3A, which is primarily a striker, tends to run out of ammo in longer matches, a problem the Death's Knell does not have. So they usually favour slightly different playstiles. The Death's Knell is a bit more an ultralight grinder.

As a small laserboat, you usually have a couple of tons free to spend on heat sinks, and you really should do it. Besides that I recommend an AMS. You can't really outrund LRMs but even if you can't hide quickly if you run away from them your get a bit of time which the AMS uses to shoot down quite a log of the missiles. Whenever I play support I also use it to shield teammates who are caught out in the open. Also: They help you getting away from lights with streaks.

Choose your fights with other light mechs carefully. IMO average Spiders are slightly inferior to you while Jenners will give you a really hard time. Always remember that your main advantage against them are your arms, which gives you a fireing angle with which your enemies (especially Spiders) will have a hard time to compete with.

My standard tactic against Spiders is a circling duel so they can't hit you with their torso mounted weapons to provoke them to jump. Once they do it is is easy to calculate where they will land. Aim for that spot and shoot an alpha at it.

Jenners are much bigger nut to crack. I usually don't engage them alone. If I have to, I do what I can to avoid running in front of them. Usually I break off the engagement sooner or later and try to lure him to my teammates. Often enough this is successful.

In general: Avoid streaks. Even after the nerf.

Against all heavier mechs you should pick your targets of opportunity. (Almost) never stay with one target! I know this can be hard. You have a hard time getting a good K/D ratio. If you leg one enemy (sneaking up and legging a heavy is a favourite strategy of mine) or otherwise cripple an opponent, you should leave him to your teammates. Trying to deliver the killing blow will cost you precious seconds in which the other enemies have time to target you. It is not worth it!
But if you change targets over and over again, you will get what somebody else here called "camouflage for idiots". They don't pay attention to you. If you feel that you are getting too much attention you should disengage and wait some time before you reenter the fight. You are worth more alive. I noticed that as a Commando you become more and more valuable later in the match. If you die early, no matter what you did, you have wasted your potential.
Do not try to be a spotter or scout for an extended amount of time. Both are better roles for mechs with ECM. And even them, they are not always useful especially in PUG matches.

My favourite loadout carries two Small Pulse Lasers and two Med Lasers. Once heat gets too serious I usually use just the small lasers. I tried different loadouts but always returned to this one.

As modules I recommend the obligatory Seismic Sensors, Advanced Target Range and an UAV. I don't always use the UAV, but I sometimes shortly after the main engagement starts I sprint through the enemies and plant it. It's high risk, but pretty often they don't have enough time to react.

[Darwins Dog]

ShinVector, on 29 July 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

I dunno.. I feel 4 mediums is still the way to go.
I found that even 6 small pulse lasers felt underwhelming.

I went back and forth for a bit between ML and SPL, and I've decided that I like SPL the best. I can usually get two volleys off and get away in about the same span that I could do 1 volley of MLs. The 0.5 second beam time also means more of the damage goes where I want it to. I do miss the extra reach from time to time, but the rapid firing and easier heat management is very nice.

[Koniving]

ShinVector, on 29 July 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

I dunno.. I feel 4 mediums is still the way to go.
I found that even 6 small pulse lasers felt underwhelming.

I regularly get insane kills with this 6 small laser mech.


And with this 7 small pulse laser mech.


6 SPL is 18 damage every 2.75 seconds including burn time.
Meanwhile, an AC/20 does 20 damage every 4 seconds.
By 9 (yes, nine) seconds, the AC/20 has done 40 damage, and the 6 SPL has done 54 damage.

Which would you prefer?

Personally 20 damage per 4 seconds is also how 4 medium lasers works, but it's all spread out (edit: Unless you and your target are standing still).
4 smalls is 12 damage per 3 seconds, with significantly less 'on-target' time necessary, which means more damage to what I point at. That's why I like it. I took out two Atlases last night with the Death's Knell between myself and a Jenner. At the end I did more damage than he did. He happens to have 5 medium lasers. We both survived.

(Also, even better, this lets me run a standard 200 engine, maximum armor, and less heat.)

Edited by Koniving, 29 July 2013 - 11:26 AM.

[ShinVector]

Koniving, on 29 July 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

I regularly get insane kills with this 6 small laser mech.


And with this 7 small pulse laser mech.


6 SPL is 18 damage every 2.75 seconds including burn time.
Meanwhile, an AC/20 does 20 damage every 4 seconds.
By 9 (yes, nine) seconds, the AC/20 has done 40 damage, and the 6 SPL has done 54 damage.

Which would you prefer?

Personally 20 damage per 4 seconds is also how 4 medium lasers works, but it's all spread out (edit: Unless you and your target are standing still).
4 smalls is 12 damage per 3 seconds, with significantly less 'on-target' time necessary, which means more damage to what I point at. That's why I like it. I took out two Atlases last night with the Death's Knell between myself and a Jenner. At the end I did more damage than he did. He happens to have 5 medium lasers. We both survived.

(Also, even better, this lets me run a standard 200 engine, maximum armor, and less heat.)

Ahhh.. but you are overlooking the distance factor. 90m vs 270m effective is a lot of difference. I don’t need to be as close to do full damage on medium lasers.
Convergence is a problem when both are moving but not too much when the enemy is standing still.

This is me trolling people between medium to short range yesterday in a PUG match.
Also noticed that over time as you get more precise in your aiming. The more quicker your kill but less damage.

[Carrioncrows]

With the way the current build is right now the only way to really survive in a commando is to not be within medium laser range.

I use:
XL175
10 DHS
Endo
160 pnts of armor

x1 ERPPC
x3 Medium lasers

Mostly just use the PPC to snipe and hammer targets, at long range you are extremely hard to hit and in close range brawler you have an excellent alpha as well as the 3 meds to fight with.

[Koniving]

ShinVector, on 29 July 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

Ahhh.. but you are overlooking the distance factor. 90m vs 270m effective is a lot of difference. I don’t need to be as close to do full damage on medium lasers.

Fun vid. You're right about the distance factor, but consider this. At 270 meters that Atlas or Stalker can hit you with everything it has. You get within 90 meters or less, they can't see you because you are so low to the ground.

[MonkeyCheese]

Been running my DK with max engine and max armor with 1 ERLL and 3 SPL been doing good, great for harassing at range and anything big up close, less overheating than my old build of 1 LL and 3 ML and the small pulses are great for qucikly finishing off anything with a orange or red open torso.

Modules I usually run with are target info gathering, adv seismic and cap speed or UAV

[Corvus Antaka]

The 2D runs well with 1 ERPPC & ECM or 2 SRM4, 1 SRM2 and 1 MLaser, though with only 2 tons of srm ammo you can run out fast. BUT for engaging assaults & hvys and dropping them fast form behind the SRM 2D is a monster, it's like a 25 ton splatmando and it works very well.

SSRM is meh since the nurf, but in a good way. still a nasty build, but you need a lot more patience not an i win button if you got the jump on a raven like it used to be.

[thepartisan]

I have played quite a decent amount of CMD before the open beta. Especially with the missile builds. But for me the Death's Knell seems to hold a spot because of that past association. Thats why im especially uncertain whether or not its for me. I do not mind running circles and staying with the groups, or lancing boils off the back of a fatlas. But for me personally this is a mech that comes from a chassis that I enjoyed playing once-upon-a-time. Thanks for all the input regarding this little gem of a mech. I will keep this in consideration. If I do buy the mech in the coming few days, I will let you all know whether or not I have fun

Ps. As a reminder, I have seen and killed quite a few tdk players who seem to stand still in very open places

[Mycrus]

my favorite mech...

[thepartisan]

Bought the TDK a few days ago. Only played one game with it so far.... And it was quite enjoyable. I had 175 damage that round with 3 kills and a fair few assists. I figured that it will probably die a lot, so I did the following build. Let me know if you would consider it good or not. I run the TDK as a zombie.

DEATH'S KNELL

I will probably grind this up as soon as I am done with my dragonslayer