138 replies to this topic

[Asakara]

http://mwomercs.com/...ted-april-19th/

From the link:
fact: About 74% of games kicked off are within what we consider tolerable weight matching limits (the difference between a heavy vs. assault Mech on the opposing team). Of the remaining 26% of matches, about 7% are what we would call "horrendously bad" (i.e., they carry the weight difference of one or two full assault Mechs between teams).

Heavy Mech: 60-75 tons
Assault Mech: 80-100 tons
Difference between a heavy vs an assault = 5-40 tons
"Horrendusly bad" match-up = imbalance 80-200 tons

Two friends and I played 15 games on Friday from 8:45 PM PST to 11:25 PM PST with TheFoxyShortBus of NGNG.

So of our 15 back to back games last night, PGI's own standards would categorize the match-ups as:

2 "Tolerable" (5-40 ton difference)
3 "Not Tolerable" (45-75 ton difference)
10 "Horrendously Bad" (80-200 ton difference)

*I double checked my math, but math is hard. So I apologize in advance if there are errors.

Difference: +105 tons - "Horrendously Bad"

Spoiler

Difference: +70 tons - "Not Tolerable"

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Difference: +95 tons - "Horrendously Bad"

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Difference: +85 tons - "Horrendously Bad"

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Difference: +130 tons - "Horrendously Bad"

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Difference: +100 tons - "Horrendously Bad"

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Difference: +145 tons - "Horrendously Bad"

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Difference: +60 tons - "Not Tolerable"

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Difference: +100 tons - "Horrendously Bad"

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Difference: +95 tons - "Horrendously Bad"

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Difference: 0 tons - "Tolerable"

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Difference: +90 tons - "Horrendously Bad"

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Difference: +70 tons - "Not Tolerable"

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Difference: 0 tons - "Tolerable"

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Difference: +140 tons - "Horrendously Bad"

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[RiceyFighter]

I am a bit more worried about that the "Almost Guaranteed" win mech is the highlander poptars.

[Ningyo]

I suspect it is worse at some times of day, and certain ELO brackets. I don't pay too close attention, but about 1/10 matches there is a 100-200 ton difference, there might be more but I doubt over 20%.

I mostly see large weight differences when on the loading screen one team has not got all 8 players yet (but gets by start of game) I suspect these games are ones the matchmaker has to go further from ELO and weightclass to find people. These are also almost always horrible 6-2 -> 8-0 Games with the team starting fully built winning by a landslide.

Lol my Edit got ate by the server maintenence hehe. Either way

I looked in more detail at your screenshots, and it appears you were mostly dropping as a 4 group ith an average weight around 50 ton. Since most people play heavier mechs it is probably very difficult for the matchmaker to find even matches for you. I would suggest trying this again with an average weight of 65-75 tons and see if you still have this problem.

Edited by Ningyo, 01 June 2013 - 08:53 PM.

[Soy]

Jpgs of TheFoxyShortbus or it never happened.

[Und3rSc0re]

I have just now started screenshotting matchmaker matchups, i usually just rage quit right when the lose screen comes up and think nothing of it but when games go terrible most of the time it is because of the matchmaker.

[Hammertrial]

Win rate of heavier team when substracting 0 tonnage difference matches is slightly above 50%.


http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2220919

[Hammertrial]

Furthermore, I'd suspect that your time of play had to do way more with your experiences than the matchmaker being bad.

You know what would really help? Time the time from hitting launch until a match. If it's over a minute all bets are off.

[The Cheese]

I'd be interested to see if the results were the same if you'd been dropping solo. I'm not saying that it's OK for this to happen because you were in a group, I'm just wondering if grouping has an adverse effect on tonnage matching.

Edited by The Cheese, 01 June 2013 - 08:50 PM.

[Monky]

Matchmaker doesn't handle groups of lights very well, I've been matched with so many '4 man spider lance' teams that I basically just expect to lose when I see it. Part of this is 8 man with 2 - 4 'teams' (2 4-mans to 4 2-mans) the math just isn't always going to be able to throw in 4 Atlai or highlanders to counter it and then fill out an enemy team. ELO also likely interferes as lighter mechs are more likely at lower ELO due to the high risk of dying early (speed + fragility = quick engagements and bad luck/poor piloting means a likely drop in ELO) and lower damage output prevents ascension into high ELO as easily as assaults, so it likely gets very heavy weight classes at high ELO.

That said, match maker has been gradually improving over time (very slowly), and while I can complain about the time frame, I can't complain that it isn't moving in the right direction at least.

[Sephlock]

[Ghogiel]

I like how you used 4man light mech premade to skew it.

Try a 1:1:1:1, or better follow in line more with the actual mech distribution that is apparent in the game (the weight class stats were posted not long ago) so drop a light/medium and add an extra heavy/assault

[Asakara]

Ghogiel, on 01 June 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

I like how you used 4man light mech premade to skew it.

Try a 1:1:1:1, or better follow in line more with the actual mech distribution that is apparent in the game (the weight class stats were posted not long ago) so drop a light/medium and add an extra heavy/assault

Foxy used what he wanted. In some he was in a light. In others he was not. There is no "skewing" anything.. This is what happened when we dropped. Of course the facts via photo evidence is right there, plan as day... But whatever.

People should be allowed to play with their friends in what they like best without getting "horrendously bad" match-ups. They should not be forced to conform to some silly 1.1.1.1 or whatever bull-crap to get "tolerable" matches.

[El Bandito]

Matchmaker sometimes gets so pissed at my A1, it just assigns me into a 7 man team.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 June 2013 - 10:13 PM.

[Roland]

Has it occured to the OP that perhaps when you drop with a team of only light mechs, you aren't really giving the matchmaker a whole lot to work with?

Unless you're trying to force it to drop you against ungrouped teams.

[Ghogiel]

Asakara, on 01 June 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

Foxy used what he wanted. In some he was in a light. In others he was not. There is no "skewing" anything.. This is what happened when we dropped. Of course the facts via photo evidence is right there, plan as day... But whatever.

People should be allowed to play with their friends in what they like best without getting "horrendously bad" match-ups. They should not be forced to conform to some silly 1.1.1.1 or whatever bull-crap to get "tolerable" matches.

There is skewing. The mech weight sample you used is biased compared to the known mech weight distribution in the pool.

Your attempt to suggest that PGIs statistics are less accurate that yours is amusing.

[Asakara]

Roland, on 01 June 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

Has it occured to the OP that perhaps when you drop with a team of only light mechs, you aren't really giving the matchmaker a whole lot to work with?

Unless you're trying to force it to drop you against ungrouped teams.

A team of ONLY light mechs? Does nobody look at the pictures?

Stalker + 3 Jenners
Matches: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 13

Spider + 3 Jenners
Matches: 7, 8, 9

Cataphract + 3 Jenners
Match: 10

Catapult + 3 Jenners
Matches: 11, 12

Hunchback + 3 Jenners
Match: 14

Atlas + 3 Jenners
Match: 15

3 of 15 matches, or 1/5th of them had a 4 man light. Yet more than 1/5th of the matches were considered "horrendously bad" match-ups by PGI's standards.

Edited by Asakara, 01 June 2013 - 10:23 PM.

[Khavi Vetali]

I think the thing to take from this is that there is little incentive to pilot lights and mediums beyond pilot preference, hence the population discrepancy. When you run the less populous mechs as part of a group, your percentage of "horrendously bad" matches shoots through the roof. Try running even a 2 man light team at higher Elo brackets and you will find that you are invariably matched up against heavies/assaults on the opposing team.

I don't think this is going to change, unfortunately, at least with how gameplay is currently balanced. When they tighten up the matchmaker, it just means that there will be longer waits for those that like to drop using the less popular weight classes with their friends.

[PanzerMagier]

the 3 jenners constitutes 3/8 ~ 38% of the team. a 4 man premade automatically with 38% of team filled with lights WILL skew the results. Nice try scoundrel, but why don't you do it again with an acceptable weight drop. If the results are still the same, I'll believe you.

[Shadowsword8]

All the screens I looked at showed the OP and 2 teammates using only jenners, which bias his team weigth on the "light" side and will strain the MM to find something equivalent.

It's basically begging to be outweighted.

Therefore, the OP's point is moot.

If you want to complain about the matchmaker, do it with matches done in solo, or with teammates more balanced in weight.

Edited by Shadowsword8, 01 June 2013 - 10:50 PM.

[Asakara]

PanzerMagier, on 01 June 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

the 3 jenners constitutes 3/8 ~ 38% of the team. a 4 man premade automatically with 38% of team filled with lights WILL skew the results. Nice try scoundrel, but why don't you do it again with an acceptable weight drop. If the results are still the same, I'll believe you.

Scoundrel? LOL. How is wanting fair fights being a scoundrel? By the way, we had a nice game there in match 4 above even with your +85 ton advantage.