103 replies to this topic

[InRev]

While assault mechs outnumber mediums and lights combined, I will base cap. I sure as hell am not going to be an XP/C-bill piñata for a lazy assault who can't be arsed to RTB when his base is only 1 grid away.

[ShinVector]

Base Rushing:

This silly thread again.

What OP wants is death match mode... PGI give him his deathmatch mode.


Rather than cry about this why not try to directly solve the problem ??

• Find out what is your team comprised off.
  
• Only slow mechs in your team ? Remember matchups are not even. The other side might have fast mechs while you don't.
  
• What map is it ?? If it is a big map. Sound the alarms.... Alpine is certainly the worst of the lot, went it comes to base caps.
  
• Recon.. Yes... Scouting is not limited to those fast mechs. Big boy mechs can do it too... You have to cover the left and right part.. If your whole team goes left.. You go right. Generally you are on the look out for lights. You would normally encounter them in the first few minutes of the game. If they went for the quick cap tactic.
  
• Based on point 4... If you light in the match.. Alarm ! Alarm !... Enemy has the option to cap base... The more the lights the higher the alarm and the closer you will want to be to base to guard it.

Instead of crying about it... It have come up with tactics to counter it.
It is fun to successfully repel and crush fast cap attempts but against more PRO teams... It would certainly be extremely hard to defend against.
Myself, like many of the veterans players, play this game both ways... It all depends of the mechs you use, the team make up and choosing the best strategy to win.

Finally the objective of the game is to make the other team lose.
I am sure OP has seen people repel and defeat base caps... Why not try to emulate and adapt ??
It gets far more faster results than expecting PGI to do something about it.

--

On another note you do come across scum assault/heavy team mates.
Alpine...In a Spider... After a skirmish near I9 hill Base Cap is altered... Being the fastest guy I RTB...
In the process I sound out to the team that I am a Spider and I would need help to defend base.

Initially I find one Jenner the, a Cent, and something else.. probably a heavy or assault.... I am wondering how the hell did these guy penetrate the the right defense line ??
Nvm.. Task at hand... I start my defense operations.. One of the allied mech responded to my earlier calls but unforntuantely he gets gunned down quick... Again I am alone try to defend... But unfortunately... after a few minutes... I go down as well..
Here I thought... my surviving allied mech was pre-occupied in a tought battle somewhere and could not come to help in time.

Instead... In spectator mode.. I find 3 assault mechs 'trying' to cap enemy base......
When I tell them off for being dumb... One responded stating that I 'Choked'....
3v1 in a Spider... Is CHOKING ??
The moral of the story... Things just don't work out when you have scum team mates, would do not understand the meaning of Team Play and the capabilites of they stinking mechs...

Edited by ShinVector, 02 June 2013 - 10:02 PM.

[Deathlike]

Silly players wish their enemies come to them.

Smart players MAKE their enemies come to them.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 02 June 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

Easy solution to base rushing: defend your base.

Really, people, how hard is it to play the objective? Got a team of just slow mechs? Be defensive, try to force a fight near your own base. If you can get a lead on kills, then you can maybe split your team into attack and defense lances.

To put it frankly, you should only lose your base to capture if you gamble on a base race and lose, or if your base defenders got murdered by whoever they sent to cap you. If you win a battle except for one light mech, and he beats you by capture, then you deserve the loss and he earned the victory.

To misappropriate a common saying, amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics. The base (and the control points on Conquest) represent your logistics. If you only pay attention to tactics and ignore the base, then you aren't doing it right.

Honestly the whole logic behind 'capping' is fairly stupid in how the game implements it. In your study of tactics and logistics, if a combat unit is flanked and cut off by an enemy force (making them now behind enemy lines), what are there options? They can stand and die, surrender, or more typically try to breakthrough back to their lines. If you have 8 mechs move forward toward the enemy, and a single light mech (or 2-4) gets behind them, suddenly they just all give up and power down? Or even worse, when a unit wipes out another except for 1 or 2 who tried to cap, they just throw in the towel because they were capped, instead of going back en masse and wiping the stragglers out? The premise for the cap in matches was to prevent a lone survivor from a team dragging the match out by running away until the timer expires, not to prevent actual fighting in the match.

[Lykaon]

Taj the White Tiger, on 02 June 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

The real problem isn't the capping mechanic its the assault game mode. Its inherently flawed as it heavily favors long range, extremely heavy, defensive builds that sit on top of cap. Put simply in a competitive environment there is little to no reason to advance

Even if your try and reform the game mode what your suggesting is a poor idea. Simple reality is your drastically buffing heavies and assaults the two most powerful classes in the game and your drastically reducing the ability of lights and mediums to have any effect on the game. In other words your invalidating 50% of the mechs in the game straight off the bat because you don't like getting capped


The real issue is the vast majority of pugs don't want to actually mentally engage with the game and think about there actions. Subsequently when they don't think or care about defending the base there only reaction is "lame caps" or "you guys scared of a fight" to hide the fact they know they just got outsmarted.


Long story short your ideas won't work because the game mode is flawed. If you want a more enjoyable experience play conquest

I was about to say pretty much the same thing.

I will add however that most of the maps already favor heavyer mechs because of the smaller sizes of these maps.
On River City (night),Forest Colony (snow) or Canyon (5 maps out of 10) getting capped is obviously a failure on the capped team's part because the maps tiny size allows for rapid redeployment and few avenues of advance)
On Frozen City (night) or Caustic Valley the maps themselves limit possible points of access to the base.This allows for heavy mechs to use either long lanes of fire (caustic) or obvious choke points (frozen) to easily prevent base caps.

So you have two maps in rotation that actually require an assault or heavy pilot to really think before deploying and both of those maps have very long lanes of sight and fire to minimize the effects of inferior mobility.

I can't count the number of times I have been in a combat piloting an assault mech and hear the base cap warning only to see seconds later a light or speedy medium on my team gleefully ignoring the warning to chase down a target on the front lines.
That light mech capping out our base will win the game for it's team because my team can't be bothered to know their role in that situation.

Hint: It's not the assault mech's job to drop everything and slowly plod back to base so a light mech pilot can stay in the front line fight.

[Satan n stuff]

Livewyr, on 02 June 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

Defend your base does not mean "have whole team sit at base." (that would be a straw man)

it means leave a heavier mech there to defend(...)

Never ever do this. If a mech isn't fast enough to return to base it shouldn't be at the base by itself, it should be on the front lines. Leaving one slow mech at the base is basically giving the enemy a free kill while crippling your main force.
Either your whole team defends the base, or you keep some fast mechs in range of the base while you go find the enemy. Anything else will get you capped or killed.

[Joseph Mallan]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 02 June 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

Assault has 2 win conditions.

1) Capture their base.

2) Kill the other team.

Complaining about your opponents taking door number 2 1 while you don't bother to defend your base is frankly ridiculous.

Fixed that for ya. Capping the base is the first option.

***** n stuff, on 03 June 2013 - 05:10 AM, said:

Never ever do this. If a mech isn't fast enough to return to base it shouldn't be at the base by itself, it should be on the front lines. Leaving one slow mech at the base is basically giving the enemy a free kill while crippling your main force.
Either your whole team defends the base, or you keep some fast mechs in range of the base while you go find the enemy. Anything else will get you capped or killed.

How does a slow mech lead the charge when everyone leaves it in their dust?

[Lykaon]

***** n stuff, on 03 June 2013 - 05:10 AM, said:

Never ever do this. If a mech isn't fast enough to return to base it shouldn't be at the base by itself, it should be on the front lines. Leaving one slow mech at the base is basically giving the enemy a free kill while crippling your main force.
Either your whole team defends the base, or you keep some fast mechs in range of the base while you go find the enemy. Anything else will get you capped or killed.

How is it bad to leave a heavy mech on guard to handle a light mech that tries to cap?This scenario is only an issue if the enemy forces are made up of a group of pack hunting lights.

a full half of all maps are the small maps 3 mid sized and 2 large.On the small maps most combat occurs around half way between bases allowing even the assault mechs ample time to RTB if a single light is capping.On the mid sized maps it's not difficult to RTB if your mech has even a mediocre speed of 60ish because on those maps most of the combat occurs at the half way point as well (cauldara rim (caustic)/ridge line (frozen))
This leaves only two maps where a slower mech pilot may need to really consider possitioning in regards to base defence.

Unless the enemy composition is 3 or more lights,trying for a base cap and getting away with it on half of the maps is probably due to the lack of response rather than a mater of being unable to respond.

Oh and here is a clever idea try using a fast mech to determine enemy mech composition before everyone rushes of the play assault mech alpha strike online.If the enemy didn't bring anything fast then go with the oh so clever plan A (blob of heavy/assault mechs alpha striking everything in sight) if your scout determines the enemy composition is full of speedy mechs then use plan B (blob of heavy/assault mechs alpha striking everything that gets close to the base)

[Chrithu]

Solution's the same as it allways was: Scout and defend. Assault is not meant to be team deathmatch. The fact that PGI has not removed the bases yet is a clear statement.

[Joseph Mallan]

Gotta agree, defend your base, then you won't be capped.

[zraven7]

How about this: When the game stops randomly dropping me in a team with 5 lights, and we're up against a team with 6 assaults, I might consider not base capping. Maybe.

[Ralgas]

4 lights capping?, sounds like a troll 4 man........ once again teamwork is op

Edit: Oh, and what zraven said, when you're outgunned 5 assaults to 2 and a mix of heavy med and lights doing anything other than cap is going to go reeal well

Edited by Ralgas, 03 June 2013 - 07:00 AM.

[StonedVet]

To those posting "defend your base" type responses. Give your head a shake and just think about what this would do to the game. You either have 2-3 mechs sitting the base and you get stomped 8-1 in most cases OR both teams sit on cap for 15 minutes sitting the base. "guarding" the base is not the answer especially when the name of the game is ASSAULT. I think bases need hard point defenses with Calliope's and about 10 gauss rifles shooting at you.

[Gallowglas]

I like the timed option, personally. I think it solves most of the problems.

[Xeno Phalcon]

HGN-733P>Captain all poptarts are in position!

*Base is being captured*

HGN-733P>Captain our base is being captured, what should we do!?

Heavy Metal> GAME OVER MAN, GAME OVER!

[zraven7]

Lowridah, on 03 June 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

To those posting "defend your base" type responses. Give your head a shake and just think about what this would do to the game. You either have 2-3 mechs sitting the base and you get stomped 8-1 in most cases OR both teams sit on cap for 15 minutes sitting the base. "guarding" the base is not the answer especially when the name of the game is ASSAULT. I think bases need hard point defenses with Calliope's and about 10 gauss rifles shooting at you.

First of all, I've always been for automated base defenses. However, ten gauss cannons is ridiculous, and you know it.

Second, when you are "assaulting" something, you are assuming it's guarded. If it's not guarded, what you are doing is "squatting" and possibly "laughing".

Third, an alternate answer is RUN MOBILE MECHS!!! You wanna run your 'Phract or Atlas, fine. Make sure there are people on your team who are mobile. If you wanna pug like that, you get what you get. Make some friends.

BTW, having mobile mechs in the case of a base rush does NOT mean one or two lights. it means a light or two backed by some mediums. The medium weight class is supposed to act as a bridge between the mobility of a light and the sustainability and firepower of a heavy. The lights see what is capturing the base, possibly step on it to stop the capture, as the mediums close in with better firepower. Just because everyone likes to gripe that the mediums are "useless" doesn't make it so.

BALANCED TEAMS, people. Stop rocking the "Atlas and Highlander Sumo Squad" and you might do a little better.

Edited by zraven7, 03 June 2013 - 07:13 AM.

[BlackIronTarkus]

The point of assault is team deathmatch, being capped in the first 5 minutes is trolling the BOTH teams when the only thing the majority want is to fight. Thats what this game is about right? Piloting mechwarriors and fighting others mechwarriors. I pretty Im correct on this one so yes a simple timer to stop early capping or some static base defense would solve much of the annoyance.

[zraven7]

BlackIronTarkus, on 03 June 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

The point of assault is team deathmatch, being capped in the first 5 minutes is trolling the BOTH teams when the only thing the majority want is to fight. Thats what this game is about right? Piloting mechwarriors and fighting others mechwarriors. I pretty Im correct on this one so yes a simple timer to stop early capping or some static base defense would solve much of the annoyance.

No, the point of Assault is Assault. The point of Team Deathmatch, which we do not have, is Team Deathmatch. Look around a little before you post a comment that has been posted about a hundred times.

[Stalephreak]

I do like the OPs second option. That's about the best solution to base cap that I think we've really seen. It also harkens back to previous MechWarrior games.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lowridah, on 03 June 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

To those posting "defend your base" type responses. Give your head a shake and just think about what this would do to the game. You either have 2-3 mechs sitting the base and you get stomped 8-1 in most cases OR both teams sit on cap for 15 minutes sitting the base. "guarding" the base is not the answer especially when the name of the game is ASSAULT. I think bases need hard point defenses with Calliope's and about 10 gauss rifles shooting at you.

This would have me decide, "Can I break of from what I am doing and stop the cap or or do I rely on the faster Mechs to cover our flank?" Depending on how close I am will determine my choice.