1139 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

Hammertrial, on 07 June 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

Ya, not sure how anyone could say 3rd isn't coming from those last two sentences.

For "special game settings", sure. Not for the regular matches in other words, but for things like the training grounds, possibly knock-downs, perhaps a zoom-in at match start-up, who knows? But "special game settings" can't really mean regular match play, especially when combined with the initial two sentences.

[WarHippy]

So this all seems to boil down to the devs making seemingly random changes in content with no information provided to the community. Leading to...

1)A lot of people venting their frustrations with the consistently inconsistent information given by the devs.
2)A bunch of white knights calling group one petulant children for not bowing down and saying thank you for whatever they are given.
3)And me shaking my head in amusement thinking about how the forum changes were supposed to keep people on topic and remove the negativity from the forums. Seems to be working.

Edited by WarHippy, 07 June 2013 - 07:17 AM.

[Hammertrial]

stjobe, on 07 June 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

For "special game settings", sure. Not for the regular matches in other words, but for things like the training grounds, possibly knock-downs, perhaps a zoom-in at match start-up, who knows? But "special game settings" can't really mean regular match play, especially when combined with the initial two sentences.

Wow...this post got entirely screwed up somehow....Editting most of it back in...

EDIT:

I would argue that a 3rd person only queue is a special game setting. After all, special is having a specific or particular function, purpose, etc. of which 3rd person only is.

InRev, on 07 June 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

As I've said before, mainly because it's self-contradictory and contains two mutually exclusive statements, on the surface. Let's break it down, shall we?

"It is 100% first person view only."

Ok, that seems pretty straight-forward. First person game.

"Being the pilot is one of our key design pillars and 3rd person breaks that pillar on multiple levels as seen in many of the other 3rd Person discussions."

Wow, these guys really seem set on this first-person thing. Sorry third-person guys!

"We will investigate 3rd person in the far off distance for special game settings, but this is very far off in the distance."

Wait . . . what? Didn't you just say that this is a first-person game and that third-person breaks your design pillars? What the poop?

"While we appreciate those who enjoy 3rd person, MWO will be 1st person out of the gate and in the near future."

Oh . . . so . . . it's only a first-person game right now . . . is that what he meant? First-person in the immediate present?

It's just a very convoluted post. He contradicts himself. "It is 100% first person view only." and "We will investigate 3rd person in the far off distance for special game settings" are mutually exclusive. If he had said "it is 80% first person view only" or "it is 100% first person view only today", fine. But he didn't. We can't read minds and, judging by this community's interpretation of that post, we can't read Paul's posts either. We shouldn't have to be Talmudic scholars to get what the devs are saying.

I know that you personally have taken this up as your crusade, and that's cool, but even you have to see that that particular post if a nightmare in terms of clarity.

PS: Please don't take this as a personal attack or turn this into another ad hominem mess I think we can do this in a civil manner!

I completely arguree that its a nightmare in terms of clarity! But to argue that 3rd person was promised and guarenteed to never be in the game just has no basis in reality from that post. And thats the issue I take with it.

I argue with lawyers for a living, and so I'm pretty heavily reliant on facts. After all, opinions are like ********, everyone has one.

The fact is, that post clearly indicates 3rd at the very least being investigated for the future (in which case the invesigation clearly gave a greenlight). You also can't argue that the 100% first person contradicts the third person and is the ruling statement without also arguing that the third person contradicts the 100% first and is the ruling statement. Could PGI have been more clear, YES!

There are so many other reasons to be upset at PGI (DX11, 12v12, CW, collisions) that have clear timelines and dates that you can readily find that aren't being met and delayed near indefinitely.

But yet we have these completely overblown reactions to 3rd and the Orion not being released this month, two things that were NEVER PROMISED. There is 0 evidence of either statements being made.

You can have your opinions, you can't have your own facts.

Edited by Hammertrial, 07 June 2013 - 07:59 AM.

[Vasces Diablo]

WarHippy, on 07 June 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

3)And me shaking my head in amusement thinking about how the forum changes were supposed to keep people on topic and remove the negativity from the forums. Seems to be working.

I know right. Sure, general was a convenient "one stop shop" to get timely information about the game and discuss the current related topics, but getting rid of it was a small price to pay in order to get rid of the bickering and negativity.

Oh wait....

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 07 June 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

But everybody could aim for a bit of maturity, and to understand that what I said above is the reality. Instead, we get what appeara to be a bunch of children who complain that damnit, they got the wrong toy for Christmas.

Sometimes we sound like that. I APOLOGIZE!!!

Quote

People complained that PGI stopped communicating early in open beta. This is why. Simply put plans change for a wide variety of reasons. Its one thing to be upset that what you were looking forward to has been changed or delayed, its another to go off like PGI has punched your kitten and taken your candy.

It's fine if something's delayed AS LONG as you tell us in advance and explain why... whether it be some issues in the code or something being more important (a legitimate reason for the delay, not the excuse used to justify the Quickdraw over the Orion).

Quote

All that ranting like this acheives is making them want to share ever less information, for fear it may change and cause even more headaches.

As a group, they need to practice "we hope", "ideally", "perhaps".. every modifier used to indicate "hey, poop happens", and that's fine. When you don't use such modifiers, you are telling everyone "it's a done deal". That is when poop hits the fan when you don't deliver. I wish that PGI would take some PR classes and learn to deliver a consistent message across all communication channels.

Edited by Deathlike, 07 June 2013 - 12:04 PM.

[Rasako]

Wintersdark, on 07 June 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

But everybody could aim for a bit of maturity, and to understand that what I said above is the reality. Instead, we get what appeara to be a bunch of children who complain that damnit, they got the wrong toy for Christmas.

People complained that PGI stopped communicating early in open beta. This is why. Simply put plans change for a wide variety of reasons. Its one thing to be upset that what you were looking forward to has been changed or delayed, its another to go off like PGI has punched your kitten and taken your candy.

All that ranting like this acheives is making them want to share ever less information, for fear it may change and cause even more headaches.

thats funny because league of legends has had one of the worst, if not THE worst gaming communities in the entire world for the past 3 years and they still talk to their playerbase on a DAILY basis

[Hammertrial]

WarHippy, on 07 June 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

If they give less information because of this then they missed the point of the complaints. People are annoyed at the lack of heads up. Had they said even just a day or two before the director update that some things changed and they wouldn't be able to get the Orion out, but that they had an unannounced replacement ready to fill its place. Had they done that then they could have avoided the majority of the complaints. Instead they decided that silence was the way to go, and didn't bother to think about the implications of an out of left field change. If they read the forums like they claim then they knew people were expecting the Orion so its not like they couldn't have avoided this.

I sincerely believe that the only thing that would have changed if they announced it a week ago that the Orion was being replaced by the Quickdraw is that we'd have a week longer of complaining about the Quickdraw being released over the Orion.

[Zerberus]

InRev, on 06 June 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

You do realize that companies that operate in the real world, not the magical fantasy world of game development, actually have standards to which they adhere, right?

The PRIMARY one being: Doing what is good for business.

Cold, Hard Fact: Neither you nor anyone else have presented tangible proof (i.e. not pure speculation) that these decisions are NOT good for business. No sales num,bers, no quarterly roundups, nothing but speculatory statements based entirely on what YOU want and /or believe, with total disregard for the thousands of other players and the tens or hundreds of thousands of potential players.

But that doesn`t stop yourself and others from acting like PGI is your own personal branch of the Salvation Army, dedicated to pleasing and helping you, only you, and nobody but you, everyone else be damned. You'`Re essentially saying "either they`re kneeling under my desk sucking me off, or they just plain suck"

And that is why just about all of the arguments presented by your side are, by direct logical correlation to your own quoted statement, entirely dismissable as invalid until actual proof is presented. Something tells me we will be waiting a long time for that to happen, and not only becasuie you don`t have access to it....

And that is why those of us that reside on the more rational, reality-influenced side of life are so quick to summarily dismiss them as such.

I don`t belioeve in fuzzy warm ghosts from a book of fables that was pieced together from old wives tales in teh middle of the desert, I don`t believe in aliens walking amongst us, and I sure as hell don`t believe that a vocal minoroty of players that spend more time looking up new superlatives and insults with which to riddle their derogatory posts know more about how a game company is doing financially thatn the people that actually work at that game company.

Feel free to pick one of those beliefs and prove me wrong, something tells me any proof presented will require belief in something I doint believe in and not be based in verifiable truths, represented by cold, hard facts.

Edited by Zerberus, 07 June 2013 - 12:30 PM.

[GetinmyBellah]

I refuse to purchase anymore MC due to third person view. It's been a hot topic for quite some time now, sure. I've spent upwards of $250 to date with the founder pack included, but you won't see another red cent from me for introducing this BS and going back on your word, given during the closed beta, PGI. Smooth move.

Edited by Vegentius, 07 June 2013 - 12:37 PM.

[WarHippy]

Hammertrial, on 07 June 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

I sincerely believe that the only thing that would have changed if they announced it a week ago that the Orion was being replaced by the Quickdraw is that we'd have a week longer of complaining about the Quickdraw being released over the Orion.

Perhaps, but I also sincerely believe they could have avoided most of this had they tried the one thing they have not, and that is being upfront about things with us. Sure, if they just came out a week ago and said nothing more than hey we are releasing the Quickdraw instead of the Orion with no reason given then they would have had a riot on their hands. Instead though they could have said something along the lines of... Hey everyone I wanted to give you a heads up. I know you are expecting the Orion next month, but we are not going to be able to release it this time around. I know everyone is bummed and so am I, but I do have some good news we will still be releasing a new mech next month so there is still that to look forward to. Yes, I did just confirm that there are in fact unannounced mechs ready to go .

Something as simple as that and most would have been sad, but ok with it.

[IIIRAMOIII]

wow. so many complaints. why are so many of you taking this whole thing so personal? these guys have given us the best game ever made (i know, very subjective but i havnt touched another game since this came out). who cares if you havnt got 3rd person view or the quickdraw came before the orion. i get to play this amazing game for free (paying is optional ppl) and i know these guys work hard to make this game as good as possible and im sure they have priorities. so lets all relax a bit and enjoy the game .. cheers

[Chemie]

from May update " During the month of May we plan to reveal more details about Community Warfare"

Well...they skipped that in May and so far in June too.

[LoveLost85]

just a few words. wheres CW? they've probably taken over 80% of the IS by now

[Grimmnyr]

Well, PGI did listen to all the whining about how disappointing the Trial By Fire sales are, and it seems like this latest sale has everything the whiners wanted in a sale, except for discounted MC. PGI should sell "3PV YES!" and "3PV NO!" cockpit items, I would buy one.

[HybridTheory]

No Orion? Really. 3rd Person? You are seriously considering this rubbish? Wow... my hopes are starting to dwindle of late...

[Private Backside]

Quintt, on 05 June 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

Precisely because they know the meaning, they want to uninstall. Its been too many patches, too many times saying "next patch, be patient, they get it right next patch, they will fix it next patch".

It gets to a point when faith in something that is yet to happen just disapears. Now they remove several piloting options from the game with this jump jet nonsense (i hate sniping but i love JJ as a navigational aid), take away one of the most expected mechs ever since its announcement and put in a weight bracket that noone wants and worst of all, UNannounced?!

sorry, still can't see a reason to be so hurt by changes in BETA VERSION of a future game, other than being a immature and hurt over not getting a toy you want.

Quintt, on 05 June 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

Beta testing has nothing to do with this issue, the issue here is PGI's lack of clear comunication, lack of comon sense to find balance within the nerfs, instead of the usual hammer smack they do, the fack that they dont listen to the comunity at all (the important comunity anyway, the ones who actually BETA TEST their product).

they do listen to community. being a member for quite some time i see they do. you should check feedback threads and compare them to diff. versions' changes.

Quintt, on 05 June 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

Also, you are trying to talk down to me, you who wares a phrase like "PUG, and proud of it" ?? stick to pugging, leave the forums, you have no diea what you are talking about, ever. And to use your own failed atempt at comunicating with me with an arrogant denotation on your words, here goes my answer : PUGs-cant-beta-test.

Quintt 7BXO
HHoD

my signature is here for a single reason - to irritate elitist pathos riff-raff. nice to see that it serves it purpose well.
Let Me Pass You This Nice Butt Soothing Ointment!

sincerelly,
Monkey Arse
HTFU
Giant Snobs Gentlemen Society.

[Grimmnyr]

Destined, on 07 June 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

Stop. Insulting. Eachother.

Edit*

Let me re-phrase that. Personal insults and attacks are against the Code of Conduct. While this thread is also being moderated, please keep in mind that responding to what you perceive as insults/attacks with other insults/attacks are also violations of the CoC, and not helping.

There was once a forum on the net
which was warned by moderators, one, two and three
they said misbehave and you'll be sorry yet
and recourse went on merrily
but there was one excellent post
with a great idea that was free
PGI I want this the most
Make 3PV Yes/No items for me

[MWHawke]

Destined, on 07 June 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

Stop. Insulting. Eachother.

Edit*

Let me re-phrase that. Personal insults and attacks are against the Code of Conduct. While this thread is also being moderated, please keep in mind that responding to what you perceive as insults/attacks with other insults/attacks are also violations of the CoC, and not helping.

Funny thing is that highlighting it is considered a response? Funnier is that the posts are still up.

[Zaptruder]

xengk, on 04 June 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

Summery on Orion vs Quickdraw post.
> wants strawberry ice cream
> gets chocolate ice cream
> throws a tantrum demanding for strawberry ice cream

"Hey buddy, I've got a new flavour of icecream; Strawberry Icecream!"

"Sure, shopkeeper, I'd like a strawberry ice cream please."

*gets handed a chocolate ice cream*

"Wait... why did you give me a chocolate ice cream?"

*stony silence*

"WTF man?!"

[Wintersdark]

Zaptruder, on 08 June 2013 - 03:09 AM, said:

"Hey buddy, I've got a new flavour of icecream; Strawberry Icecream!"

"Sure, shopkeeper, I'd like a strawberry ice cream please."

*gets handed a chocolate ice cream*

"Wait... why did you give me a chocolate ice cream?"

*stony silence*

"WTF man?!"

Not silence, Bryan said why. Also, consider that while strawberry has been delayed, ALL YOUR ICE CREAM IS FREE!

******** it, Santa brought me the wrong Christmas present AGAIN!