1139 replies to this topic

[Wildhound]

Can you please fast track Third Person View to make sure it is ready before the early bird Phoenix offer ends? I'd like to know if the game will still be worth playing before I pony up the cash, thanks!

[repete]

Wildhound, on 25 June 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

Can you please fast track Third Person View to make sure it is ready before the early bird Phoenix offer ends? I'd like to know if the game will still be worth playing before I pony up the cash, thanks!

This!

Prior to the release of the Orion Quickdraw I was paying for premium. And then the fumbled announcement of the Quickdraw ("[...Because meta and stuff. No. We never said the Orion was being released on X date...]"), to say nothing of other subjects like CW, I was like "Screw that". And 3PV hovering in the background (Again/still). And I want to buy the Misery and the Firebrand...And now Project Phoenix. But no. Do I like the game? Hells yes. Do I want to reward continued poor communication from PGI? Hells no.

Edited by repete, 25 June 2013 - 04:24 PM.

[RG Notch]

repete, on 25 June 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

This!

Prior to the release of the Orion Quickdraw I was paying for premium. And then the fumbled announcement of the Quickdraw ("[...Because meta and stuff. No. We never said the Orion was being released on X date...]"), to say nothing of other subjects like CW, I was like "Screw that". And 3PV hovering in the background (Again/still). And I want to buy the Misery and the Firebrand...And now Project Phoenix. But no. Do I like the game? Hells yes. Do I want to reward continued poor communication from PGI? Hells no.

I'm always impressed with people with the dedication to bite off their nose to spite their face.

[repete]

RG Notch, on 25 June 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

I'm always impressed with people with the dedication to bite off their nose to spite their face.

I'm always impressed with people who make 'witty' comments with nothing to back them up.

[RG Notch]

repete, on 25 June 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

I'm always impressed with people who make 'witty' comments with nothing to back them up.

What needs backing up. By your own admission you like the game and want these items but you've decided to "show" them by not buying them. Seems silly, although good for you for sticking to principle over fun. I tend to save principle for important stuff and let fun stuff be fun. I don't get bent out of shape by whatever happens in a game. It's for fun, if I wasn't having fun I would leave. While I'm having fun I don't hesitate to spend money, I know my purchase one way or the other isn't going to "show" anyone anything other that I'm really principled when I'm playing a ******* video game. People will spend money or they won't, the game will boom or bust with or without my money. So rather than deny myself fun for nothing, I'll choose fun and complain on the forums.

[Wintersdark]

RG Notch, on 25 June 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

What needs backing up. By your own admission you like the game and want these items but you've decided to "show" them by not buying them. Seems silly, although good for you for sticking to principle over fun. I tend to save principle for important stuff and let fun stuff be fun. I don't get bent out of shape by whatever happens in a game. It's for fun, if I wasn't having fun I would leave. While I'm having fun I don't hesitate to spend money, I know my purchase one way or the other isn't going to "show" anyone anything other that I'm really principled when I'm playing a ******* video game. People will spend money or they won't, the game will boom or bust with or without my money. So rather than deny myself fun for nothing, I'll choose fun and complain on the forums.

This post is filled with awesome.

I'm quite happy throwing dollars at them. I don't care if they have good communication or bad, I'm not paying for communication I'm paying for a fun game. And these new toys? They're awesome, and they'll be tons of fun for me. Thus, I'm getting what I'm paying for.

And I have a lot of fun with this game. Does it have flaws? Sure, of course it does. They'll get fixed eventually, but none of them stop me from having fun, or I'd stop playing. Also posting here - if I'm not playing, I'm not posting.

Communication that does happen is an awesome side benefit, but it's not what I'm paying for.

[repete]

RG Notch, on 25 June 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

What needs backing up. By your own admission you like the game and want these items but you've decided to "show" them by not buying them.

Your term is "show" (I have not used the word. So nice job trying to attribute motivation and the negative connotation. Only a hair off saying "stick it to them"). I use the word feedback. Positive result gets positive feedback. PGI have previously acknowledged challenges with effectively communicating with their community. This hasn't changed.

RG Notch, on 25 June 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Seems silly, although good for you for sticking to principle over fun. I tend to save principle for important stuff and let fun stuff be fun.

Well lets start from the idea that different people value different things...Differently. Nice that you're here criticising me for deciding A - What's important to me, and B - How I respond to that. PGI have made something of a commitment to communicating with their player base: 1) They have a community forum. 2) Their staff participate in avenues of communication outside of the forums (Twitter, podcasts, events, etc.). They even have a 'Community Manager'. Yet if you look objectively at the criticisms of PGI, two common streams through them are 1) the issues themselves, and 2) the communications around these issues. #2 GREATLY magnifies #1. Let me hold up two examples:

1) Great - PGI addressing the HUD bug fix - Did you see the write up on what was done to address this? Did you see how positive the response was?

2) Not so great - A - "Surprise! Quickdraw" (When it was previously said on NGNG the Orion was next). B - No patch today. And many, many, many other examples over the past year.

I get it. PGI is a small company and they have a lot of work to do. I've participated in a number of game forums. There is always a cesspool element to them (You can't please everyone all of the time). But MWO's forums have a VERY negative element to the posts, and the polls often reflect that. Ask WHY? Is there something unique about MWO players? Well. Kind of (We like big stompy robots as opposed to say little fleshy dude running around with guns, or magic and monsters, or tanks, or airplanes), but beyond that, WHY are the forums full of so much negativity? In your opinion, does PGI's communications play ANY part in that?

RG Notch, on 25 June 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

I don't get bent out of shape by whatever happens in a game. It's for fun, if I wasn't having fun I would leave.

As I said, different people value different things differently. For some of us, the WHY behind things is just as important as having fun in game. To you it is not. I don't look through your posts and go "Haha! You're whining about <whatever>. What a waste of time."

RG Notch, on 25 June 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

While I'm having fun I don't hesitate to spend money, I know my purchase one way or the other isn't going to "show" anyone anything other that I'm really principled when I'm playing a ******* video game.

Again, "show" is your term. And individually, no one person's actions will make any difference to PGI. But as a collective, we can. And IF numbers and income tracks one way (Say for example because others who fell the same as I) collectively feedback to PGI through not buying things when a company in the business will take notice. Now do I actually expect it to make that much of a difference? Hard to say. I don't know how many people are playing (IGP choose to keep that to themselves). But IF we knew and could track players to incidents, we as the community would know if these incidents were having an impact on the overall player base/community. But we don't know these things, and in the absence of fact, people will speculate.

RG Notch, on 25 June 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

People will spend money or they won't, the game will boom or bust with or without my money. So rather than deny myself fun for nothing, I'll choose fun and complain on the forums.

And back to the principles...You're right. The game will succeed or fail based on making money (Perhaps viewed in relation to MWO funds going towards Tactics). And for some, good communication on something that is important to us (We won't dismiss it as a ******* video game) is important. Ask how much time people in a unit spend working on documentation, websites, databases, training, meetings, etc. And if, gawd forbid, the game did fail, then people may ask "Why?". And that question will have many answers, one of which MAY be, "PGI didn't communicate with its community very effectively".

Summary: I may PLAY an ok game. I will PAY for a good game. I will PAY A LOT (Relatively speaking) for an excellent game, for which communications is important to me (And many others). Ask PGI ... "Are you aiming to make an excellent game? Or just an ok game?".

Edited by repete, 25 June 2013 - 06:29 PM.

[RG Notch]

repete, on 25 June 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

Your term is "show" (I have not used the word. So nice job trying to attribute motivation and the negative connotation. Only a hair off saying "stick it to them"). I use the word feedback. Positive result gets positive feedback. PGI have previously acknowledged challenges with effectively communicating with their community. This hasn't changed.



Well lets start from the idea that different people value different things...Differently. Nice that you're here criticising me for deciding A - What's important to me, and B - How I respond to that. PGI have made something of a commitment to communicating with their player base: 1) They have a community forum. 2) Their staff participate in avenues of communication outside of the forums (Twitter, podcasts, events, etc.). They even have a 'Community Manager'. Yet if you look objectively at the criticisms of PGI, two common streams through them are 1) the issues themselves, and 2) the communications around these issues. #2 GREATLY magnifies #1. Let me hold up two examples:

1) Great - PGI addressing the HUD bug fix - Did you see the write up on what was done to address this? Did you see how positive the response was?

2) Not so great - A - "Surprise! Quickdraw" (When it was previously said on NGNG the Orion was next). B - No patch today. And many, many, many other examples over the past year.

I get it. PGI is a small company and they have a lot of work to do. I've participated in a number of game forums. There is always a cesspool element to them (You can't please everyone all of the time). But MWO's forums have a VERY negative element to the posts, and the polls often reflect that. Ask WHY? Is there something unique about MWO players? Well. Kind of (We like big stompy robots as opposed to say little fleshy dude running around with guns, or magic and monsters, or tanks, or airplanes), but beyond that, WHY are the forums full of so much negativity? In your opinion, does PGI's communications play ANY part in that?



As I said, different people value different things differently. For some of us, the WHY behind things is just as important as having fun in game. To you it is not. I don't look through your posts and go "Haha! You're whining about <whatever>. What a waste of time."




Again, "show" is your term. And individually, no one person's actions will make any difference to PGI. But as a collective, we can. And IF numbers and income tracks one way (Say for example because others who fell the same as I) collectively feedback to PGI through not buying things when a company in the business will take notice. Now do I actually expect it to make that much of a difference? Hard to say. I don't know how many people are playing (IGP choose to keep that to themselves). But IF we knew and could track players to incidents, we as the community would know if these incidents were having an impact on the overall player base/community. But we don't know these things, and in the absence of fact, people will speculate.



And back to the principles...You're right. The game will succeed or fail based on making money. And for some, good communication on something that is important to us (We won't dismiss it as a ******* video game). Ask how much time people in a unit spend working on documentation, websites, databases, training, meetings, etc). And if, gawd forbid, the game did fail, then people may ask "Why?". And that question will have many answers, one of which MAY be, "PGI didn't communicate with its community very effectively".

Summary: I will PLAY a good game. I will PAY for an excellent game, for which communications is important to me (And many others).

Wow, it's actually not even about the ******* video game, it's the amount of communication regarding the ******* video game. Like I said you show them or stick it to them or get the whole forum to stop spending money until the communicate to your standards. Me I'll be having fun playing the ******* video game.

Don't let the man not tell you about what's going on in his video game! Occupy PGI!

Upset MWO players unite, you have nothing to lose but your lack of communication as regards to the development of a ******* video game about giant stompy robots!!

[repete]

RG Notch, on 25 June 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Wow, it's actually not even about the ******* video game, it's the amount of communication regarding the ******* video game. Like I said you show them or stick it to them or get the whole forum to stop spending money until the communicate to your standards. Me I'll be having fun playing the ******* video game.

Don't let the man not tell you about what's going on in his video game! Occupy PGI!

Upset MWO players unite, you have nothing to lose but your lack of communication as regards to the development of a ******* video game about giant stompy robots!!

"[I have no response to your points, so I'll just prattle on]". Nice.

PS - If it's "just a ******* video game", what are you doing on the forums? Don't have some "fun" to go have?

Edited by repete, 25 June 2013 - 06:45 PM.

[Alik Kerensky]

Too bad there is no patch today was looking forward to the Sarah Mech. Oh well the 2nd is around the corner next week.

[Bracchus]

Would it be nice with a small explanation of why the Sarah mech got pushed to the 2nd? Yep! Will it detract from me playing the game? No! It does feel like the devs avoids the forums to stay clear of the sh*t storm some people tend to start when they feel PGI not playing with open cards, and thats a shame. One would think that they had someone savvy at PR that could handle the "pressure" such situations create.

Thank the giant stompy robot god that the game is fun even with its current flaws, keeps me playing

[RG Notch]

repete, on 25 June 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

"[I have no response to your points, so I'll just prattle on]". Nice.

PS - If it's "just a ******* video game", what are you doing on the forums? Don't have some "fun" to go have?

I'm having fun at the expense of those who take the game way way too serious. What points did you raise that aren't covered by simply stating it's a ******* video game? Don't let me stop you, like I said I'm here for the fun and while laughing at people is mean it's still is funny. Thankfully folks like you are the gift that keeps on giving.

[Aylek]

Kain, on 25 June 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

This

I don't mind if patches are delayed, or features changed / postponed, or bugs introduced, as long as there is some sort of communication to inform the community.

+1!

[DeathofSelf]

Alright PGI, with this new sale you had better step up to the plate if you want my money. Perhaps start by giving us the July director update BEFORE the first patch in July.

[Wildhound]

RG Notch, on 25 June 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Wow, it's actually not even about the ******* video game, it's the amount of communication regarding the ******* video game. Like I said you show them or stick it to them or get the whole forum to stop spending money until the communicate to your standards. Me I'll be having fun playing the ******* video game.

Don't let the man not tell you about what's going on in his video game! Occupy PGI!

Upset MWO players unite, you have nothing to lose but your lack of communication as regards to the development of a ******* video game about giant stompy robots!!

I think that you're missing the point.

I'm not one of the big spenders around here, I've put maybe 70 dollars into the game so far and I feel like I have gotten my money's worth.

However, before I go and dump another 80 dollars on the Phoenix pack, plus some more for my next batch of MC, I need to ask myself "Will I get my money's worth?"

With Third Person View on the horizon, something which could potentially decimate my enjoyment of the game, the answer could be "No". I might find that a couple of months down the line I am not too bothered to play the game any more because it no longer makes me tingle. It wouldn't even be a conscious decision, or to 'show' anyone anything. I would just gradually start firing up other games more often when I sit down at my computer.

Now 80 dollars might not be a lot of money to you. Hell, it's not all that much to me. But there are still a lot of other things I could spend it on, so I need to ask myself these sorts of questions before I do. Otherwise I would just buy all the things.

In summary, I want the Phoenix pack. I would like to buy it. However, I know that I may never get to enjoy it, and I would like those fears assuaged.

[RG Notch]

Wildhound, on 26 June 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

I think that you're missing the point.

I'm not one of the big spenders around here, I've put maybe 70 dollars into the game so far and I feel like I have gotten my money's worth.

However, before I go and dump another 80 dollars on the Phoenix pack, plus some more for my next batch of MC, I need to ask myself "Will I get my money's worth?"

With Third Person View on the horizon, something which could potentially decimate my enjoyment of the game, the answer could be "No". I might find that a couple of months down the line I am not too bothered to play the game any more because it no longer makes me tingle. It wouldn't even be a conscious decision, or to 'show' anyone anything. I would just gradually start firing up other games more often when I sit down at my computer.

Now 80 dollars might not be a lot of money to you. Hell, it's not all that much to me. But there are still a lot of other things I could spend it on, so I need to ask myself these sorts of questions before I do. Otherwise I would just buy all the things.

In summary, I want the Phoenix pack. I would like to buy it. However, I know that I may never get to enjoy it, and I would like those fears assuaged.

Wildhound, on 26 June 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

I think that you're missing the point.

I'm not one of the big spenders around here, I've put maybe 70 dollars into the game so far and I feel like I have gotten my money's worth.

However, before I go and dump another 80 dollars on the Phoenix pack, plus some more for my next batch of MC, I need to ask myself "Will I get my money's worth?"

With Third Person View on the horizon, something which could potentially decimate my enjoyment of the game, the answer could be "No". I might find that a couple of months down the line I am not too bothered to play the game any more because it no longer makes me tingle. It wouldn't even be a conscious decision, or to 'show' anyone anything. I would just gradually start firing up other games more often when I sit down at my computer.

Now 80 dollars might not be a lot of money to you. Hell, it's not all that much to me. But there are still a lot of other things I could spend it on, so I need to ask myself these sorts of questions before I do. Otherwise I would just buy all the things.

In summary, I want the Phoenix pack. I would like to buy it. However, I know that I may never get to enjoy it, and I would like those fears assuaged.

That's quite different from saying you like the game and saying you want the packs, but won't buy them unless the devs communicate on the forums in a manner you deem acceptable. You're doing a cost benefit analysis based on your enjoyment. The person I responded to was simply denying himself so he could be principled in regards to the amount of communication in a video game.
Deciding you may not get to enjoy the investment is not the same as purposefully denying yourself to stick it to the man!

[Wildhound]

RG Notch, on 26 June 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

That's quite different from saying you like the game and saying you want the packs, but won't buy them unless the devs communicate on the forums in a manner you deem acceptable. You're doing a cost benefit analysis based on your enjoyment. The person I responded to was simply denying himself so he could be principled in regards to the amount of communication in a video game.
Deciding you may not get to enjoy the investment is not the same as purposefully denying yourself to stick it to the man!

Ah, but the person you responded to was responding to a post of mine with which he agreed.

I was working under the assumption that he agreed with me, but had misrepresented my argument,

[DanboyD]

Bryan Ekman, on 04 June 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

• Special - Sarah's `Mech (25th)

Where is she boys? Or have I just missed a post that shows us the 'mech?

[ICEFANG13]

DanboyD, on 26 June 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Where is she boys? Or have I just missed a post that shows us the 'mech?

PGI said it was delayed today or yesterday because of paperwork and charity stuff until the 2nd

[Wildhound]

DanboyD, on 26 June 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Where is she boys? Or have I just missed a post that shows us the 'mech?

ICEFANG13, on 26 June 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

PGI said it was delayed today or yesterday because of paperwork and charity stuff until the 2nd

Naturally I will be purchasing this regardless of what I said above.