103 replies to this topic

[Daeonwolf]

I hate base rushing. I've been in games where barely 2 minutes in I've lost because 4+ lights rushed the base and took it over practically before anyone had a chance to turn around and stop them. No encountering the enemy, no shots fired, just 'You Lose!' plastered on the screen and the other side laughing at us. Alpine Peaks is especially bad for base rushing. It’s too big, too spread out. And it's not the losing that bugs me, it's the fact that they've taken from me what I was really after: the enjoyment and entertainment of piloting and shooting at a bunch of giant, heavily armed robots!

'Then leave someone behind to guard the base!' you say. Really, how many of you out there would want to park at the base and miss out on the action? And even if someone was willing to 'take one for the team' and play babysitter, think how losing 12% to 25% (1 or 2 people) of your force 'just in case' would affect the situation out in the battlefield when you encounter the enemy. If they haven't left anyone behind, then you're out numbered.

So, here are my proposals for fixing this:

The first is more straight forward but not my favorite: make base capture impossible for the first 5 (or possibly 10) minutes of the game. I don't have a problem losing to base capture, especially if the other side uses it as a strategy to turn the tide of a battle they're losing. That's a good game to me and I'll tip my hat to those who out maneuvered us. It's just the damn early rushers who win the game without any effort that tick me off.

The second option is the one I personally like more: On the assault maps, make the 'base' a destroyable object. Heavily armored and needing a lot of hits, I think it would change the balance of base assaults in some interesting ways. First, lights could base rush still, but they'd actually be at a disadvantage for winning since they (usually) lack seriously heavy firepower. It would take them longer to destroy the base than a heavy or assault mech that lumbered all the way across the map. Second, the assaulter would have to think strategically while trying to capture: do they attack conservatively? Or go all out and burn up their ammo/heat, risking putting themselves in a bad situation if the defenders return? A little tweaking of the maps would probably be needed, basically making sure there was some sort of terrain around about 180 degree arc to prevent super long range sniping. But personally, I think it would make base capture interesting and even exciting. And make it a *lot* harder to rush capture and ruin a match before it even starts.

There may be other options out there, but these are my suggestions for now.

[p00k]

honestly i'm fine with base capping. doesn't happen that often if you scout, especially now with seismic. and frankly i really don't mind losing to a base rush anymore when it does happen.

[Taj the White Tiger]

The real problem isn't the capping mechanic its the assault game mode. Its inherently flawed as it heavily favors long range, extremely heavy, defensive builds that sit on top of cap. Put simply in a competitive environment there is little to no reason to advance

Even if your try and reform the game mode what your suggesting is a poor idea. Simple reality is your drastically buffing heavies and assaults the two most powerful classes in the game and your drastically reducing the ability of lights and mediums to have any effect on the game. In other words your invalidating 50% of the mechs in the game straight off the bat because you don't like getting capped


The real issue is the vast majority of pugs don't want to actually mentally engage with the game and think about there actions. Subsequently when they don't think or care about defending the base there only reaction is "lame caps" or "you guys scared of a fight" to hide the fact they know they just got outsmarted.


Long story short your ideas won't work because the game mode is flawed. If you want a more enjoyable experience play conquest

[Corvus Antaka]

defend your base.

[senaiboy]

Base rushing is a legit tactic, it does not break any MWO rule nor is it 'not working as intended'.

You do not have to put someone behind to stop base rushing, all you need is a scout/spotter. Just like having one guy watching the tunnel in Frozen City to alert the team of a tunnel rush. Or finding out if the enemy is going lower or upper city in River City.

It's called "Information Warfare".

Edited by senaiboy, 02 June 2013 - 04:23 PM.

[80Bit]

I don't have a problem with losing or winning from base capture. My problem is that you don't get rewarded for it. We now get extra rewards for killing someone that is attacking a base, which is great. But a base cap win should either noy be possible, or be rewarded accordingly. I'm not saying it should be the same rewards you see in a full 8 kill win, but it should definitely be more than 25k.

As it stands now, if you base cap at the start of a match, you are basically just trolling the other 15 players in the match.

In regards to the OP, I do not like either suggestion, I would rather people just get rewarded for winning, even if the win is a base cap.

[Inkarnus]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 02 June 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

defend your base.

its totally op to defend base vs base rush
but nobody does it
cuz all that enepenne slowpoke jump highlanders are so fast they cant
catch a crawling turtel
rethink your taktiks

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Assault has 2 win conditions.

1) Kill the other team.

2) Capture their base.

Complaining about your opponents taking door number 2 while you don't bother to defend your base is frankly ridiculous.

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 02 June 2013 - 05:25 PM.

[jakucha]

Look for common routes that lights would sneak by if you think they're going to try to base cap, and stay near your base and frontlines.

[Inkarnus]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 02 June 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

Assault has 2 win conditions.

1) Kill the other team.

2) Capture their base.

Complaining about your oponents taking door number 2 while you don't bother to defend your base is frankly rediculous.

brofist !!!!

[TB Freelancer]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 02 June 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

Assault has 2 win conditions.

1) Kill the other team.

2) Capture their base.

Complaining about your opponents taking door number 2 while you don't bother to defend your base is frankly ridiculous.

'nuff said.

[Keifomofutu]

You can white knight for PGI all you want but it won't make the assault objectives more engaging or stop people from calling out the game mode as a poorly done placeholder from beta that is long past its usefulness. But hey brofist all you want. Just don't be surprised when you're all that's left.

The whole camp your base suggestion falls apart when you realize both main forces are 5 kilometers from each other on certain maps. I wouldn't complain about being capped on forest or frozen. On tourm or alpine if I'm heavier than a medium I won't even bother with the objective. Congrats you capped tourm. Your 150km/h clearly makes you more skilled amirite?

Lights from both teams tend to ignore their own base and somehow expect the 60km/h assault to go 2km back and defend. That's the big hypocrisy that all the defend the basers tend to share. They ignore their own base just as much as assaults do many times.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 02 June 2013 - 07:20 PM.

[Ryche]

Or perhaps you could not run a slow mech stuffed with maxed out weapon slots and could go at a decent clip?

[Livewyr]

Defend your base does not mean "have whole team sit at base." (that would be a straw man)

it means leave a heavier mech there to defend, or have faster mechs nearby to defend it if needed.

------

Base capture needs an overhaul, true- stamping your feet and grinding your teeth because people capped behind your slow mech is absurd. (as has been repeatedly stated in multiple ways, NOT just in this thread.)

[A banana in the tailpipe]

I love base rushers. Sitting there with my LBXs ready to smear some light into confetti. My team ******* at me for camping/afk.... but defending should be a valid tactic. Eff those CoD kiddies who want to rush and respawn, becasuse there IS NO RESPAWN.

[Valore]

Base rushing itself isn't a problem.

Its the fact that you're in a RANDOM pug team, that will run off and do whatever it feels like.

As a result, even if you do defend the base, you'll either get killed by a lance of good light pilots who decided to basecap, or your team will die horribly, then you get killed 7 on 1 or something.

Base capping never happens in proper 8v8. Eiher the teams agree not to basecap, or there is a clear understanding that it is a tactic that will be used and people plan and play accordingly.

Without this, it becomes like the OP says an incredible annoyance, and a frustrating team-based mechanic that grates because there is a distinct lack of 'team' in pugging for the most part.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

If we had consumable mines and caltrops base rushing wouldn't be such an issue.

[Xigunder Blue]

Ah, wouldn't the simplest way to solve the situation be a compromise? Remove the base timer and have the side with the most tonnage AT THE END OF TIME LIMIT on the enemies base be the winner of the match. Thus a base rush by light/med mechs would be fairly useless nor would a sudden rear march feel so necessary. The importance of the base in a match doesn't show up at all till the very end of the match - base fights anyone? Tactics perhaps since capping is only a way to take a mech out of the units total - yeah go ahead and cap, let your team go short a battlemech or two. It is not the base cap that is the problem, it is the TIMER! It was designed to force tactical decisions on players but has generated way to much controversy and aggravation. Just remove the timer for the time being until maybe returning it later in some fashion. Such as resource gathering while capped but not match ending. Makes for more combat - less frustration. Capping for resources (cbills/xp) will take nothing from other team but will make base capping competitive, not match ending till final second of match.

[TheComet]

The issue I have is more one of some of the maps forcing teams to go on full offense, such as Alpine if you get placed at the bottom (face it if you're at the bottom and the other team plays defensively -- you've lost. you have minimal cover and are in range of ER PPCs and a huge walk back to base when on offense), or tourmaline where the bases have little to no cover to work with beyond the cap point.

Make our bases more defensible, then I bet we'd see more players thinking about keeping it safe.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Easy solution to base rushing: defend your base.

Really, people, how hard is it to play the objective? Got a team of just slow mechs? Be defensive, try to force a fight near your own base. If you can get a lead on kills, then you can maybe split your team into attack and defense lances.

To put it frankly, you should only lose your base to capture if you gamble on a base race and lose, or if your base defenders got murdered by whoever they sent to cap you. If you win a battle except for one light mech, and he beats you by capture, then you deserve the loss and he earned the victory.

To misappropriate a common saying, amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics. The base (and the control points on Conquest) represent your logistics. If you only pay attention to tactics and ignore the base, then you aren't doing it right.