1217 replies to this topic

[Svalfangr]

KuritaGuard, on 04 June 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

screenshake and cross-hair shake + random shots is overkill. its like what you have done to lrms and ppc. lets see what the adjustments and hotfixes will bring.

btw can you do something against boating finally?

remember. youre not only taking away the poptart mechanic you negate every advantage of jumjet mechs.
if jumpjets dont have to bring advantages . dont implement them

Yet again JJs are not meant for combat.

They are for maneuvers so learn to adapt you cant poptart anymore.

[Kunae]

Svalfangr, on 05 June 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

Yet again JJs are not meant for combat.

Yes.

They.

Are.

Quote

They are for maneuvers so learn to adapt you cant poptart anymore.

No they aren't.

Get off your high-horse about the fact that you couldn't figure out that you can use maneuver to defeat your dreaded 'pop-tart' nemesis.

[Neutron IX]

Chillybill, on 05 June 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

leave in the screen shake that indicates your mech is experiencing the G force of lift off take out the cross hair shake so you guys wont get sick but leave in the random weapon fire spread, its the mech that is shaking not the cross hair so the weapon may fire right, left or up or down with a certain % chance that you might accidently hit what your aiming at while jets are active, basically same effect as now with a still cross hair

Unfortunately, the screen shake is the problem, not the crosshair shake.

If they removed the screen shake, or at least made it a toggle so those who like it can keep it, they can keep all the crosshair shake and random spread that they want in my opinion. They could even increase both of the latter effects if they feel it will have the intended result of minimizing poptarting, and I wouldn't mind at all. I just need that horrid screen shake gone.

I took my BJ-3 out for a spin last night, and found that while it wasn't near as immediately nausea inducing as the SDR series, I still got to a point relatively quickly where I couldn't look at the screen while jumping at all, which generally isn't a great idea when jumping. Heh. One match I overshot the sniper nest I was trying to plant myself in and fell down right into the middle of the enemy team. When I looked back at the screen instead of being parked on top of a nice peak, ready to rain PPC fire down on selected enemies, I was smack dab in the middle of their advance formation, where I pretty much immediately had both my arms blown off.
Yeah, as much as it sucked it was kind of hilarious. But still...no more screen shake, mmmkay?

[AgroAlba]

Love the jumpjet shake.

I'm not a pop tarter.
I don't care if you're a pop tarter.
I don't have problems with pop tarts.

I just think this is a nice immersion addition, I like that it makes it a bit more difficult to be a jumpin and shootin' amazing pilot. I actually enjoy the additional challenge that it introduces when I'm in my blackjack, and I get ambushed, and start hopping around trying to not get killed by mechs in front of me.

Overall, just a really fun addition. Though I'm sad to hear that some folks get nausea from it! Cause that sucks!

[Nehkrosis]

i still often use JJs in brawls with my HGN to out-brawl other assaults.
but i dont use it for poptarting.

i just. dont. get it.

[RadioKies]

Remove the shake, but if you need to keep the crosshair misfire. I use jumpjets to get over those small pesky ridges like in river city to get out of the water quickly. A better option would be to disable fire when using jumpjets. Jumpjetting is to get places and do quick 180's, not to be a fighter jet. I still see poptarts ingame. This jumpjet"fix" is a verry, verry bad one.

-edit-
Also I get a bit motionsick because I'm almost always zoomed in at 1.5 and 3.0 because at 1.0 zoom I can't see what might be a mech or not past (i think it might be) 700m. Maybe I need a bigger screen than my 22" but thats not really an financial valid option.

Playing MWO for more than 4/5hours straight gives me a hefty migraine attack that disables me for at least a day (and thats too bad because I love to play it with my brothers on some weekends). While I can play other games for hours straight completing a singleplayer campaign in 1 go. i.e. Skyrim, Dishonored, Supreme commander, Anno games, Mechwarrior 2,3,4, FarCry/Crysis, Sleeping dogs, Starcraft, Borderlands (with custom set fov).

Edited by RadioKies, 05 June 2013 - 10:26 AM.

[Chillybill]

Rip Snorgan, on 05 June 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Unfortunately, the screen shake is the problem, not the crosshair shake.

If they removed the screen shake, or at least made it a toggle so those who like it can keep it, they can keep all the crosshair shake and random spread that they want in my opinion. They could even increase both of the latter effects if they feel it will have the intended result of minimizing poptarting, and I wouldn't mind at all. I just need that horrid screen shake gone.

I took my BJ-3 out for a spin last night, and found that while it wasn't near as immediately nausea inducing as the SDR series, I still got to a point relatively quickly where I couldn't look at the screen while jumping at all, which generally isn't a great idea when jumping. Heh. One match I overshot the sniper nest I was trying to plant myself in and fell down right into the middle of the enemy team. When I looked back at the screen instead of being parked on top of a nice peak, ready to rain PPC fire down on selected enemies, I was smack dab in the middle of their advance formation, where I pretty much immediately had both my arms blown off.
Yeah, as much as it sucked it was kind of hilarious. But still...no more screen shake, mmmkay?

Yeah I am not a poptart driver so wasn't sure which, but fix it like you said is ok but I think what they did balanced the poptarts as now it at least requires a little skill but I don't think it should make you sick or give you headache to use it

[Kunae]

RadioKies, on 05 June 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

Remove the shake, but if you need to keep the crosshair misfire. I use jumpjets to get over those small pesky ridges like in river city to get out of the water quickly.

Simpler to just remove it.

Quote

A better option would be to disable fire when using jumpjets. Jumpjetting is to get places and do quick 180's, not to be a fighter jet.

Hell no. Please don't conflate the behavior of Heavies and Assaults with light-mechs.

Quote

I still see poptarts ingame. This jumpjet"fix" is a verry, verry bad one.

Yep. It's a foolish and very dirty bandage, on a gut-wound.

Edited by Kunae, 05 June 2013 - 10:16 AM.

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Gowan, on 05 June 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

This doesn't need to be a big thing where everybody is on a 'side.' The spirit of this mechanic was spot on, but the execution (and whole list of other stuff) needs to be tweaked. I really don't like that lights are getting kicked to the curb alongside poptarts, especially since the experience of piloting light mechs with JJs has been essentially the same since CB (with the exception of collision and knockdowns, which is a core gameplay mechanic and more important than CW and needs to be addressed ASAP).

Personally, I think boosting PPC heat back up to where it was pre-buff and adding a secondary firing effect (a fuzzy hud, IFF flicker, maybe a half-second target loss) would do wonders for this problem. PPCs need to be useful, not boat-fodder. I also feel like reducing shake and accuracy loss based on tonnage would be a nice addition, but in terms of people claiming that this is a pointless mechanic -- I think that some form of shaking and accuracy loss should have been in from the beginning.



No. Just no. Mechs shouldn't be able to snipe in midair. It's freaking stupid, non-canon, and nonsensical. Poptarting should require a ton of skill to pull off successfully, and the problem with this patch is that it unfairly demolishes the established tactics of light mech piloting, not that it removed some easy-mode mech builds from widespread abuse.

JJs have been in BT specs and rules sence day one,over all the yrs they have never done anything to the rules or spec but wieght and mechanics, nothing visual. Intill PGI got thier hands on it. Now that also goes for all of the mmo pc mechwarriors series that microsoft owns.PGI is just catering to the crybabies that dont want to be shoot by a jumping mech..

[Delete F4]

McDuce, on 05 June 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

JJs have been in BT specs and rules sence day one,over all the yrs they have never done anything to the rules or spec but wieght and mechanics, nothing visual. Intill PGI got thier hands on it. Now that also goes for all of the mmo pc mechwarriors series that microsoft owns.PGI is just catering to the crybabies that dont want to be shoot by a jumping mech..

And if you think Jumping and shooting is an exploit then your in a world of hurt trying to play anything else besides C.O.D.

[BananaNutMuffins]

This is funny to see the names of the people that are FOR the JJ shake they are all low to medium elo players people who get wrecked by poptarts and snipers every day.

[Joe Decker]

Of Course now no one is a Poptarter but everybody wants it removed ^^ Interesting. I am not a Poptarter but I use my Weapons when jumping with my Spider so I was also affected by that Change and I think it is okey. Would just make Cockpit shake and Cross shaking even stronger for Mechs that use the 1 Ton JJ because those JJ are stronger and therefore would have a stronger Impact than those 0,5 JJ of Lights. Of Course also the Amount of JJ's need to have an Influence on how strong the Shake is.

Second : JJ need to be overworked completely . Not possible a Highlander with 90 Tons and 1 JJ can jump nearly as high as a Light Mech with 4 JJ's.

There are a lot of People out there that think it is okey to have JJ Impact on the Cockpit/Cross. They just don't write here atm.

[SpiffyJack]

After reading many more comments its back to physics 101.

Jump jets are for jumping... just like a human with two legs! there are NOT JET PACKS! when you jump (either strait up or at an accelerated angle) ONCE YOU LEAVE THE GROUND YOUR PATH OF TRAJECTORY DOES NOT CHANGE, SWERVE, ETC ... OR REVERSE! you can NOT jet to the ground after jetting upward or outward. People are acting like JJs are supposed to act like rocket packs or scrams or something.

Jumping inside OR out side a mech (as a human) is the same principle:

When YOU jump in the air, you will either jump UP or OUTWARD in a directional path until YOU land on ground, which you can then re position and jump again. When YOU are airborne, YOU can still look, twist and pivot and focus quite well on any target.
YOU jump strait up, That is where your going! YOU jump outward, That is where your going and the faster the outward force, the further YOU jump. Once YOU are in the air, flight is supposed to be and will always be 'graceful' and consistent until flight conditions are no longer feasible: ie: gravity lands you, or an AC20 etc...

I am only concerned with lights and mediums on this because one of the best tactics to to jet with is jumping with speed at or near your target and then delivering the left eye assault on an Atlas for example its not a poptart tactic and takes true steady skill to pull it off and 100+ kph and many times is a deciding factor of a match outcome.

Perfect the existing game movement before implementing additional movements that quite literally conflict with Newtons Laws

[sgt scout]

What did you expect Banana ? its obviouse the worst of the worst that cant comprehend jumping and shooting, the players that get owned every game no matter what they are in.

[DeaconW]

BananaNutMuffins, on 05 June 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

This is funny to see the names of the people that are FOR the JJ shake they are all low to medium elo players people who get wrecked by poptarts and snipers every day.

Really? Where is this magical crystal ball where you can see everyone's ELO? Or are you just trolling....yeah, thought so. And BTW, if someone has an inflated ELO because of a broken game mechanic...it isn't really valid. Sorry to burst your ego-filled bubble.

[Phaesphoros]

If this really was a simulation, you'd keep JJ shake; and there would be people who get so motion sick that they just cannot use JJs (btw you don't have to stop playing, you just have to stop JJing o.O). Same thing IRL there may be awesome pilots who can't do aerobatics because of the physical stress.

But this is a game where everyone should be able to enjoy everything, with the restriction that "skill" should improve your effectiveness (well you could define "skill" as "what makes you effective").

On top of that, you could use JJ to peek before, w/o shooting. Now you can't see anything in the distance, meh.

Also note that the 'Mech is already shaking violently when wallking, it's already unrealistic that your avatar's head wobbles (the seat and the arms at least) but your vision doesn't. (There's no camera involved, otherwise why would you see your cockpit, that's silly.)

IMO: Remove screen shake. Leave aiming randomness and cockpit shake in. Will still make people somewhat motion sick because of the violently shaking reticle I guess; so you could instead enlarge the reticle and keep the aiming randomness (-> fire cone while JJing).

Edited by Phaesphoros, 05 June 2013 - 10:37 AM.

[VagGR]

this is turning into a war...there you have it, community warfare!!!

[Edwyndham]

Okay, I mentioned earlier I'd try to do a mock-up of what would be a more acceptable crosshair shake.

What I have is mild Photosensitive Epilepsy, triggered by "visual stimuli that form patterns in time or space, such as flashing lights, bold, regular patterns, or regular moving patterns" (or so says Wikipedia, but I agree with that assessment.

I've never had full blown seizures, but what I get is mild to severe eye strain based on the stimuli. The crosshairs as they are make me feel the need to look away from the screen entirely while jump jetting. Additionally, I had to give up using AC/2 builds on my hunchback because the flashing lights from the muzzle burst right next to the cockpit became too much for me to put up with.

If you ever watched the old old DragonBall Z fight sequences where energy blasts would make the background flash a lot, that caused a lot of eye strain too. The remastered clips on YouTube aren't as bad as the original but there's a bit of strain... look for 'goku vs vegeta first fight' to get an idea of 'flashing light' strain. I won't post here for obvious reasons.

The current JJ-shake crosshair falls under 'bold, regular moving patterns.'

So, I grabbed an animation plugin for paint.net and tried to mock up something easier on my eyes. This is a very rough concept but should give you the idea of where I'm coming from.

Spoiler

What I've done:
- Desaturated colors (more gray)
- Decreased opacity (blends in better with background ... harder to see here without an actual background but.. yeah...)
- Added slight blur (used Gaussian blur for this)
The 'motion trail' becomes increasingly transparent and blurred compared to the main crosshair.

Again, this is rough and I only spent like 30 minutes playing around with it to get something I liked, just a conceptual image here. But this makes things less 'bold' and the motion more fluid and blurry rather than ... twitchy and painful.

Edited by zwanglos, 05 June 2013 - 10:46 AM.

[Delete F4]

VagGR, on 05 June 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

this is turning into a war...there you have it, community warfare!!!

Bro if you havent noticed this is war in 3050..lol

[Kunae]

zwanglos, on 05 June 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

<snip>

Eesh... your mockup actually makes me a little nauseous.