1217 replies to this topic

[edgecrusher]

The amazing new feature and magical physics.
In the best Piranha games traditions.
- The game has players who know how to play, it has to be patched!
Piranha, Whos next?
-Some players can run fast, I can't hit them, please fix it!!!

June X8th, 2013
Open Beta Update #XX

Upcoming Patch - Tuesday June X8th @ 10AM – 1PM PDT

Patch Number: 1.2.22X
Change Log
Gameplay
- Mech moving:
Mech can't moving
- Mech now in turret mode only.

Sometimes I drive my Ford Ranger on broken country roads and it shake less then this game after patch.
I have no problem for hit target with new crazy crosshair. It's funny.
I can hit running Jenner to center torso in jump.
But I can't play more then three-to-five MWO match . Because of this shake make me weariness and be ill.
Thank you for GOOD JOB!

[Kiu]

Needs some tuning, but a good way against the jumpsnipers...
But if you get killed while flying, you have the shake till the end of the round - nasty bug... not funny to watch the rest of the game...

[Edwyndham]

Kunae, on 05 June 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

Eesh... your mockup actually makes me a little nauseous.

Sorry. Do you have motion sickness?

Epilepsy + motion sickness are kind of hard to tackle at the same time.

[Five by Five]

Seems like the cross-hair shake might have been a 'quick' fix. I can see how it could induce nausea, started to get a little bit when I was focusing on the reticle, as soon as I shifted focus to the weapon group status flags around the reticle, it cleared right up.

I say it looks like a quick fix, because the weapons fire did not shake. If I fired lasers while jumping they still track straight and smooth. If I bracketed my target with the weapon group status boxes then the laser stayed steady on target while jj'ing.

Since the true point of aim and the shaking reticle are already disconnected, the better fix would be to shake the true point of aim and keep the reticle steady. This would better scatter weapon fire while jumping and eliminate the nausea some folks are getting. Or connect the reticle and the aim point during jetting and induce a mech specific bobbing while jetting, that way laser fire will track a pattern. If you want to add skill into shooting and jetting, make it a slow but big bob in a regular pattern that a person could counter with continuous and significant control input. Anyhow, lots of possibilities beyond just a quick shaking. Glad ya'll are trying things!

Cockpit shake didn't bother me a bit, nice effect, I'd like to keep that just for added immersion (of course I also play with FOV at 90, so that may affect my reaction to cockpit shake).

[Edwyndham]

At this point I'd be satisfied with having the option of having crosshair turn off automatically while JJing and then coming back after you release JJ. Not something for everyone, but something for me at least.

[BananaNutMuffins]

zwanglos, on 05 June 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

At this point I'd be satisfied with having the option of having crosshair turn off automatically while JJing and then coming back after you release JJ. Not something for everyone, but something for me at least.

I wouldnt mind this option as long as you could still shoot without the crosshair and not have random accuracy

[danust]

Great idea. More shake than expected. I own one Highlander 732 bought in the recent sale with one match on it. No other JJ mechs. Mastered the Phracts without the 3D. Dropped in the trial jenner for a few and was surprised at the degree of shake. I believe the motion sickness crowd.

Recent changes regarding poptarts- missile path, PPC cooldown (aimed at PPC boats too eh), and now JJ shake. I agree with all but starting with shake might have been the way to go. PPC nerf affected several builds with only one PPC. That extended cooldown kills DPS builds. Still, something needed to be done for 6 PPC STK's. Stacking heat cost for boating I thought but keep tuning. Getting there.

edit : I took the 732 into training grounds for a few. Keep the inaccuracy if desired but tone down the shake visuals.

Edited by Leedair, 05 June 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[Samophlange]

I read through about 11 pages of this forum...couldn't...do...any...more....

So, pardon me if this suggestion may have already been made.
Has anyone feeling sick tried adjusting their screen refresh rate? There could be a rate of JJ jiggle that is not jiving with the hz of your settings.
If so, I find it bugs me less to not focus on the reticle, but the background when jumping.
I think we're all so trained to track the crosshairs, that it's a tough habit to break.
When the cross hairs and circle go in opposite directions....crossed eyes!

GL all!

[SpiffyJack]

What the hell is the difference between jump sniping and popping out from a rock or building? I can see when the jump is starting and when I'm gonna blast in mid flight thus ending there chance to snipe.... or or oh wait, if I'm "patient" (the word which we don't speak of..lol) I'll blast on the up jet and the drop for a doubly good time.
This topic has, like so many other good topics, turned into a noob or tactics style bashing contest.
KNOCK IT OFF!
I dig smashing poptarts!! but I dig smashing the elite players far more with 'skill' and 'grace' in my lights or mediums. But the mech needs to react like a mech in 3050 and not fighter jet thats been shot down prior to takeoff.

I'm done with this topic. Using my premium time with mechs that are no longer fun to pilot SUCKS

[Ridir Semii]

honestly the jj shake is too much, Im not a poptart, so all the arguments there are null... I use them for mobility and the occasional dodge tactics...

I agree that the shaking is needed to slow the tards down and all, but this is affecting non-tards in a negative manner, I have been killed and spectated a mech with no jj equipped and it was shaking, no enemies around... I also have had my drop team all experience this, both in our own mechs and while spectating. Some of those mechs we are running dont even jump, and it happens when alot of jumping mechs are near. I have screenshots that I will email support: a D/C ATLAS jump jet shaking..wtf?

somewheres about 2/3 of what the shake is now, would hinder poptarts without screwing mvmt based jj users... IMO

[Gowan]

McDuce, on 05 June 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

And if you think Jumping and shooting is an exploit then your in a world of hurt trying to play anything else besides C.O.D.

[REDACTED]

So let me get this straight -- because I think that jumping and shooting should carry some kind of penalty, I am only fit to play Call of Duty?

Makes sense, folks, since, as everybody knows, CoD is the only game in existence that makes it harder to jump and shoot (or does it? I honestly don't know). Seriously -- poptarting was the least enjoyable thing about MW4. But by all means, we should totally put flawed, super-abusable concepts from old games into new ones. Otherwise, how will we remember how frustrating they are?

Edited by Destined, 05 June 2013 - 12:31 PM.
insults

[Gowan]

Mgr Paine, on 05 June 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

What the hell is the difference between jump sniping and popping out from a rock or building? I can see when the jump is starting and when I'm gonna blast in mid flight thus ending there chance to snipe.... or or oh wait, if I'm "patient" (the word which we don't speak of..lol) I'll blast on the up jet and the drop for a doubly good time.

The difference is that high-alpha, JJ builds force other players to run high-alpha builds in order to deal any appreciable damage. If you can't put out a pin-point alpha burst with your mech when the jump-sniper pops up, you're going to get wasted. Popping out from behind cover leaves you exposed for long enough that lasers and sometimes LRMs (depending on firing position) can find the mark and deal damage. Typically, if you're getting hit with direct fire support, you use indirect fire to suppress and counter. That doesn't work with jump-snipers -- they pop up and fire, and are out of harm's way by the time the lock shows up. Similarly, rooting out a lance of them is a huge ordeal, because by the time you get anything that isn't also a jump-sniper into a firing position, you've been beaten all to hell and back.

This may not be the ideal way to balance poptarts, but poptarts do need to be balanced.

Christ, I never thought I'd miss Gausscats.

Edited by Gowan, 05 June 2013 - 11:23 AM.

[BananaNutMuffins]

I love how im still poptarting getting my headshots and 1 hit kils on the way down. everyone is grounded and playing bj's and jager's with xl's thinking they are safe from poptarts since the patch and getting in my 4-6 ppc stalker and wrecking anything in my sights since i dont have to worry about people like me still poptarting

Edited by BananaNutMuffins, 05 June 2013 - 11:22 AM.

[SpiffyJack]

Ok now i feel like ranting!!!

1. When a mech hits a building head on full speed it should total something right?
2. When your mech is cruising 150+ over terrain that should tear it apart, it doesn't?
3. How bout smashing (running into) a mech in hopes on a last chance kill to save your base cause you have no weapons?
4. How about blowing up a tank next to enemy for damage?
5. These things drop out of the sky and begin with 100%, yet 20 meters can be bad?
6. Even frogs jump gracefully...?
7.
on and on...

If people are looking for greater immersion, implement the easy stuff first before reinventing the wheel.

If you need help, you have my email.... I've offered numerous times.

[Esplodin]

Gowan, on 05 June 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

The difference is that high-alpha, JJ builds force other players to run high-alpha builds in order to deal any appreciable damage. If you can't put out a pin-point alpha burst with your mech when the jump-sniper pops up, you're going to get wasted.

Could it be that the ACTUAL problem is [gasp] stupid high alphas that can hit one section at 800m rather then jump jets? PGI is going after symptoms, not the actual cause. JJ just makes high alpha builds very effective. Jack PPC heat/Gauss reload time and suddenly you have less incoming fire while you close from boating, mechs with JJ or otherwise.

Balance in PGI land:

2 + 2 = Potato

[Gowan]

Esplodin, on 05 June 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

Could it be that the ACTUAL problem is [gasp] stupid high alphas that can hit one section at 800m rather then jump jets? PGI is going after symptoms, not the actual cause. JJ just makes high alpha builds very effective. Jack PPC heat/Gauss reload time and suddenly you have less incoming fire while you close from boating, mechs with JJ or otherwise.

Oh, that's absolutely the real problem, no question. But the JJ fix (okay, fix is a pretty optimistic word) still helps to curb the surge of IDF-proof DF machines.

Light mechs shouldn't have near the amount of shake that the heavier mechs are seeing, though. What we have currently is like deciding to get rid of the mosquitoes on your porch by wiping out all insect life in your county.

Edited by Gowan, 05 June 2013 - 11:40 AM.

[SpiffyJack]

Gowan, on 05 June 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

The difference is that high-alpha, JJ builds force other players to run high-alpha builds in order to deal any appreciable damage. If you can't put out a pin-point alpha burst with your mech when the jump-sniper pops up, you're going to get wasted. Popping out from behind cover leaves you exposed for long enough that lasers and sometimes LRMs (depending on firing position) can find the mark and deal damage. Typically, if you're getting hit with direct fire support, you use indirect fire to suppress and counter. That doesn't work with jump-snipers -- they pop up and fire, and are out of harm's way by the time the lock shows up. Similarly, rooting out a lance of them is a huge ordeal, because by the time you get anything that isn't also a jump-sniper into a firing position, you've been beaten all to hell and back.

This may not be the ideal way to balance poptarts, but poptarts do need to be balanced.

Christ, I never thought I'd miss Gausscats.

I LOVE ALPHA BUILDS!!! AND I LOVE OTHER SKILL-LESS ALPHA BUILDS TRYING TO COUNTER!!! THAT'S WAR MAN!! STAY AWAY FROM THEM AND LET THEM KILL EACH OTHER AND GO MOP THE MESS UP AFTER WARDS (IN MY SPIDER, JENNER, CICADA or whatever)
Thats why there are classes of Mech each to perform a task in a fashion which suits the pilot.... That being said, If your skill is jumping sniping I LOOK FORWARD TO KILLING YOU because its soooo easy.

BTW: Can i get a left eye guard for my 100 ton Atlas... because against my self I would die!!

I'm not aiming this reply toward you friend, but what I'm noticing more and more is the imbalance of mech pysialogy. The game is over clocked as it is, meaning every mechinizm in the game code as far as responses, speeds, forces etc are on steriods!! I work with 0 to 100+ ton objects in real life and the entire gameplay formula needs a 25% minimum reduction.

I may be saying to much.


NEVER THE LESS: FOR EVERY STRENGTH, THERE IS A WEEKNESS

Edited by Mgr Paine, 05 June 2013 - 11:58 AM.

[DeaconW]

Gowan, on 05 June 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

Haha, wow, what an arrogant *****.

So let me get this straight -- because I think that jumping and shooting should carry some kind of penalty, I am only fit to play Call of Duty?

Makes sense, folks, since, as everybody knows, CoD is the only game in existence that makes it harder to jump and shoot (or does it? I honestly don't know). Seriously -- poptarting was the least enjoyable thing about MW4. But by all means, we should totally put flawed, super-abusable concepts from old games into new ones. Otherwise, how will we remember how frustrating they are?

Preach it, brother.

[Dashwood Fox]

Esplodin, on 05 June 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

Could it be that the ACTUAL problem is [gasp] stupid high alphas that can hit one section at 800m rather then jump jets? PGI is going after symptoms, not the actual cause. JJ just makes high alpha builds very effective. Jack PPC heat/Gauss reload time and suddenly you have less incoming fire while you close from boating, mechs with JJ or otherwise.

Balance in PGI land:

2 + 2 = Potato

^this

And back to Light Mechs and JJ shake; I get the sense that it's pilots who seldom to never run Lights that are negating a lot of Light pilots' complaints about JJ cockpit shake. I'm actually fine with the reticule shake but the whole screen shaking is a bit much. I think they forget that your head is not directly attached to the Mech's chassis and your body is actually a pretty decent shock absorber.

[Nebelfeuer]

Gamechanics that cause pysical discomfort have to go imidiately.

Concerning the META-balance discussion:
We go from one extreme to another every time - the only way to control this effectively is limit the loadoutoptions you have in mechlab.
The amount of players that claim to hate a certain meta and still feel urged to go with the flavour of the month shows that the game would do would not really loose variety with that. Mechlab is mostly used for FOM builds only anyway. The people that are more creative in mechdesigns would suffer a little but benefit heavyly from the more balance meta in the actuall game.
We have to stop to play NERFWarrior and get a relible platform for all kinds of builds except ones that are breaking the expirience ( meaning heavyly onesided and pinpoint alpha builds). You need to force players into bringing a toolbox instead of a screwdriver or sledgehammer only. Mind it´s nothing wrong with one toolbox containing more hammers and only one screwdriver while the oher has an excelent selection of screwdrivers and brings a good saw.
Trying to get one aspect of the game (poptarting=heavy pinpoint alpha while jumping up and down behind an obstacle) under control by making all fun and valid aspects related to JJ frustrating is stupid beyond belive.

The problem every META FOV had until now is ONESIDED BUILDS in order to dominate everything else. All you need to do is PREVENT onesided builds and you would be golden. And guess were that can be done: right in the MECHLAB and by adjusting fixed mechstats (design/torsotwist/hardpoints/etc.). If you continue the buff nerf circle you will only make people move on to the next FOV(read: build that is THOUGHT to be OP).

to close the circle
Undo all JJ related changes of the last patch.
If you keep even the random aim the skill claim you made to justify pinpoint dmg is invalid and you would be better of to intoduce nonconvergens rules in order to counter pinpont dmg altogether - which indeed would also solve the poptart and pinpoint sniper issues though leaving missle boats untouched which again is not what you can call real balance...

Edited by Nebelfeuer, 05 June 2013 - 12:02 PM.