1217 replies to this topic

[Archon Adam Steiner]

Anybody who seriously thinks nerfing pop-tarts was a bad idea... really isn't thinking about what's best for the GAME, and not just what's best for their ELO.

MechWarrior is a tactically diverse game, and always has been. With so many chassis, modes of play, and weapons, it was a sad, sad statement on the state of the game that so many people felt compelled to pick (almost exclusively) the same one or two 'mechs (Cataphract or Highlander), strap on jump jets, strap on identical weapons loadouts (2x or 3x PPC + Gauss), and then... hide... and jump... and hide. MechWarrior turning into some ugly version of a cover-based shooter was a shame - a crying shame.

Reduce the cockpit shake for 'sensitive' people if you must, but ensure that the change is COSMETIC only, and in no way affects the excellent balancing that has ended the ridiculous, game-wrecking, mono-dimensional era of the pop-tart.

[Milocinia]

Too many quotes to quote but there is one statement I particularly like and it went a little something like...

HUH!

"I'm sure the amount of returning players over this change outweigh those who are going to potentially leave because of some phantom motion sickness"

Good, Fxxxing job PGI, GFJ.

[Evax]

Wow, The 8-man game has been soo much fun. Lost one or two but, way more fun. Now if the Siesmic sensor was a bit (and i do mean a little bit) less powerful. Things would feel very even.

[New Breed]

Probably one of the best changes you guys have done so far

[blinkin]

Seddrik, on 05 June 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

My Jenner with 6 medium lasers disagrees with Blinkin.

ER PPCs are a BURST fire... lasers are not. You must aim lasers... which is now not possible while JJing.

a single solid hit that has travel time is easier? damn the air force has been screwing it up all of these years. they should have been mounting large single shot cannons instead of the rapid fire guns they use for dog fighting.

Inhibition, on 05 June 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

You obviously are a poor light mech pilot.

Brawling with a light in the first place is idiotic. Lights are most effective for scouting or hit-and-running.
And brawling with an er ppc...high heat, long recycle time, heavy tonnage? give me a break

I'll destroy you on the field, and I'm sure any light running lasers and srm's will too.

i am a poor light pilot because i am not complaining about reticle shake? last i checked something like an ERPPC that fires a single solid hit is better for bombing runs. HE said brawling i didn't, but i do stick to close range combat (which shares some similarities) with my jenner and the small amount of reticle jitter hasn't ruined my accuracy.

edit: by "close range combat" i mean specifically that i do not waste heat on shots that are likely to miss and most of my attacks happen within 100m.

i find it interesting that people think that insulting my skill somehow helps their argument when i say that i have no issues with a little bit of reticle shake when they do.

Edited by blinkin, 05 June 2013 - 09:53 PM.

[Sagamore]

Now if 3PV is implemented, I along with a lot of other HL players will be using it as a welcome break from the vomit-inducing screen shake.

[Blackfang]

The new jumpjet changes are superb, no more poptarting and back to how it used to be in closed beta, I really feel now that this is the mechwarrior game I've been hoping for. Poptarting is still possible but you have to take careful planning as you do it and as a light mech pilot I really feel the JJ shake doesn't affect me that much if at all and I'm still as effective as I ever was for my team. Good change and stick with it.

[Asmosis]

Could implement a module that reduces cockpit shake from *all* sources, JJ, ballistics and terrrain. If they did that they would have to force the JJ spread out more though.

[hoverstorm]

Sagamore, on 05 June 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

Now if 3PV is implemented, I along with a lot of other HL players will be using it as a welcome break from the vomit-inducing screen shake.

And poptarts will return?

*I am not actually worried about poptarts, I am more worried about the imbalances it will bring to the game because of the introduction of 3PV.

It will certainly make the game less "challenging" and will look like any other rpg game out there.

Edited by Eirikr Sim, 05 June 2013 - 10:52 PM.

[Avi8tor]

COMPLETE CRAP

What I wanna know is why does the screen not shake now for people who are walking and shooting???????????? All you have done is shifted it to something else...now the 4 5 and 6 ppc stalkers/atlas's and such are doing the same thing....

What bothers me most is, you build a game, people get good at something and you nerf it because of all the cry babies...yes CRY BABIES....if you dn't like the poptarters, there are tactics to defeat them....you can also learn to do it yourself and beat them at their own game.... Seems like this team goes all out to protect the noobs but craps all over the loyal base that has been around long enough to get good at something....It disgusts me....and oh btw, it takes a bit of skill to poptart to start with so don't let the babies fool you and cry about it because they have no skill....Yes, it takes a bit more skill now with the shake, but honestly, I can still shoot 600-900 damage games with the shake....its the thoughtless crap of feeling screwed because I took the time to get good at something that burns me, not the actuall shaking...

On that note.....IF I stay playing this game...I will # 1 spend no further money on it and #2, I will poptart more and work harder at getting better at it so I can make the cry even louder...BABIES.....

Most likely tho...I will prolly just not play anymore.....screwed over one to many times....

[Mantle]

This was not a deal before they made assaults with jj's. Pop sniping is a valid tactic as long as there are jj's. The screen shake has completely removed the tactic from the game. I have seen people complain about every weapon and tactic in this game. They are going to cry about gauss. They are going to cry about streaks. They are going to cry about LRMS. THey are going to cry about srms. They are going to cry about ppc. At some point you guys are going to have to advance this game from a beta version. Hopefully it isn't a version where we all run ER large lasers and ac 20's and they will eventually start whining about those. If you stay in this direction of listening to a bunch of whiners we will all be ramming eachother.

[Milocinia]

I really ain't one of these elite "the whole internet MUST bow to me" gamers but since the latest patch, I have had the greatest games ever.

Why?

Well, for a start LOLrms are almost balanced at last, side for perhaps a slight drop on their speed. Then, when it comes to maps where JJ's have any sort of use, THEY ONLY BECOME USED WHEN IT IS NECESSARY FOR A MOBILITY ADVANTAGE.

Tell me, When should JJ's be used eh? Tell me, how should a movement advantage ever be used as part of a firing advantage, eh?

I tell you what shitcakes. I have had the best ******* time in at least 3-4 months since this last patch. I AM ******* LOVING THIS GAME RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IT IS FULL OF PLAYERS AND NOT EXPLOITERS, REGARDLESS OF IF I WIN OR LOSE.

[MacKoga]

People using JJs to fight in air in brawl-ranged combat are not the same thing as long distance perfect sniping JJ (poptart) usage. Some people lump all of that under the poptart monicker, but it's not really accurate.

Reticule shake and some accuracy reduction takes care of much of the sniper poptart issue. Shake does not, and really should not be that much; it should not be enough to really interfere significantly with close quarters combat.

Cockpit shake is something else entirely. It's an interesting concept, but in practice, it's not what's responsible for stopping poptart sniping, but does lead to that queasy feeling in the stomache after too much use. This is particularly bad for fast, light mechs, like Jenners and Spiders. Jenners and Spiders and the like have never been considered problematic for jumping and firing. I'd recommend taking out cockpit shake from JJs, possibly entirely; or rework how it is applied, like maybe do a slight motion blur filter or something.

Also, side issue on balancing jumpjets and whether they're exploitable: jumpjets are not balanced between mechs of different weights and speeds. I should be able to JJ into the air far faster with my Spider than my Highlander. The tonnage / weapon system cost opportunity on the spider is proportionally far higher than on the highlander. On the ground, my spider moves over twice as fast and weighs a third of the highlander, so why are they much less different once in the air?

[Lindonius]

Mantle, on 05 June 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

Pop sniping is a valid tactic as long as there are jj's. The screen shake has completely removed the tactic from the game.

No it hasn't . LTP.

Edited by Lindonius, 05 June 2013 - 11:17 PM.

[hoverstorm]

Lindonius, on 05 June 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

No it hasn't . LTP.

At least for the people who experience motion sickness from all the JJs shake.

[Milocinia]

Eirikr Sim, on 05 June 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

At least for the people who experience motion sickness from all the JJs shake.

Motion Sickness?

So, tell me "pro-gamer" who sits glued to his 32" LED monitor all day, how do you cope with this so called "motion sickness" in day to day non-gaming life?

[Neutron IX]

Kyocera, on 05 June 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

Motion Sickness?

So, tell me "pro-gamer" who sits glued to his 32" LED monitor all day, how do you cope with this so called "motion sickness" in day to day non-gaming life?

I, and a few others have tried to illustrate how exactly this particular type of motion sickness works, and how it effects myself and many others. If you missed it the first few times around, I'm more than happy to repost it again.

Quoting myself from earlier in the thread...

"There have been a few of you who, upon having this distinction pointed out, have been rather understanding, (DeaconW has been pretty good about this for example), so I'll add another clarification in the hopes that it reaches a few more sets of eyes.

The problem that so many of us are having is the visual stimuli saying "shaking" while the physical stimuli says "not shaking". This is a fairly common affliction, and is the reason so many people have trouble with movies using hand-held camera (Blair Witch Project being a classic example).

The real world examples you cite above don't actually pose any sort of problem, because the stimuli matches and the inner ear can compensate. I would probably not get any sort of motion sickness from piloting an actual Spider and using my jump jets (I'm fortunate in this regard, as there are many who would have this issue), and yet the recent change to my virtual Spider renders it unplayable.

I hope you can understand why I'd find this frustrating, and why so many of us are here voicing our dismay.

Thanks,

Rip"

*edited to fix that odd formatting mistake...hehe.

Edited by Rip Snorgan, 05 June 2013 - 11:48 PM.

[blinkin]

Mantle, on 05 June 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

This was not a deal before they made assaults with jj's. Pop sniping is a valid tactic as long as there are jj's. The screen shake has completely removed the tactic from the game. I have seen people complain about every weapon and tactic in this game. They are going to cry about gauss. They are going to cry about streaks. They are going to cry about LRMS. THey are going to cry about srms. They are going to cry about ppc. At some point you guys are going to have to advance this game from a beta version. Hopefully it isn't a version where we all run ER large lasers and ac 20's and they will eventually start whining about those. If you stay in this direction of listening to a bunch of whiners we will all be ramming eachother.

last i checked you could still fire your weapons while you were using your jump jets. to the best of my knowledge none of the weapons stop working while you are in the air. they added a little challenge. you can still pop up and snipe, but now you must put a little effort into it.

they made a change that adds a little immersion. it is not their fault that you are far too pathetic to overcome a little bit of reticle shake that ONLY happens while you are applying thrust with your jump jets.

i agree they should do what they believe makes this game good and ignore whiners like you.

[Neutron IX]

P.S. Please, everyone on this thread, regardless the stance on the patch you take. Please do a quick google search for "motion sickness", specifically searching for information on "types of".

I would hope that then, armed with factual information, that perhaps some of the accusations flying back and forth could cease. This is a real frustration here for many people, and these types of accusations do very little to help the debate.

I have seen many on here, some even on both sides of the aisle, who have mentioned possible solutions as feedback.

Also, please understand that many of us who are struggling with motion sickness in reaction to the jump jet changes recognize the problem that poptarting was causing, and are really only seeking a solution that can address poptarting without taking away our ability to play the mechs that we have invested hours/c-bills/MC into playing, and have enjoyed thoroughly up until the patch.

Perhaps pointing the "debate" in this direction could offer beneficial and real solutions that could be mutually agreed upon, if we just put aside some of the negative assumptions?

Thanks,

Rip

[hoverstorm]

I think what we are saying it is absolutely alright to have the fire goes all over to curb poptarts the place, but its not fine when the whole terrain is shaking violently from left to right.

Edited by Eirikr Sim, 06 June 2013 - 04:11 PM.