146 replies to this topic

[One Medic Army]

stjobe, on 08 June 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

Looks like a bullet to me; and where's the high explosives?



It's usually used in a 5:1 mix with the PGU-13 HEI round, but AFAICT the PGU-14 is just a sub-calibre depleted uranium penetrator - i.e. a bullet.

Yup, the "incendiary" part is actually a property of the Uranium.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Broke a new record in the spiderbro today. 4MG 1FL - 6 assists - 248dmg. Solo pugging, no vent, no AFKs.

Machine guns are fine.

[Deathlike]

lockwoodx, on 08 June 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Broke a new record in the spiderbro today. 4MG 1FL - 6 assists - 248dmg. Solo pugging, no vent, no AFKs.

Machine guns are fine.

All I can say is that that Spider-5K would be easily murdered in higher levels of play. Just because it works for PUGs, doesn't make it a good build or that MGs are fine. If it were used in higher levels of play, then you'd have a point (but you don't).

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Deathlike, on 08 June 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

All I can say is that that Spider-5K would be easily murdered in higher levels of play. Just because it works for PUGs, doesn't make it a good build or that MGs are fine. If it were used in higher levels of play, then you'd have a point (but you don't).

My level of play can't get any higher, trust me.

[stjobe]

lockwoodx, on 08 June 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Broke a new record in the spiderbro today. 4MG 1FL - 6 assists - 248dmg. Solo pugging, no vent, no AFKs.

Machine guns are fine.

Right. So you managed to spray 50 damage per weapon across six enemies (41 damage per enemy) without killing any of them.

How does that make machine guns "fine"?

Edited by stjobe, 08 June 2013 - 05:14 PM.

[InRev]

lockwoodx, on 08 June 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Broke a new record in the spiderbro today. 4MG 1FL - 6 assists - 248dmg. Solo pugging, no vent, no AFKs.

Machine guns are fine.

I'm going to have say that this is an incredibly subtle and nuanced satire, the likes of which would put this community's "trolls" to shame . . .

. . . because . . . well . . . sub 250 is a bad game for me in any light/fast medium (and as anyone should know, I am terrible at this game).

Therefore, I must conclude that I have been trolled by a mastermind. Good show, sir. Well played.

[Lokust Davion]

i completely disagree. we need to buff MGs to equal Small Laser. MGs need ammo, SL dont; thats how it is balanced.

[General Taskeen]

stjobe, on 08 June 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

Right. So you managed to spray 50 damage per weapon across six enemies (41 damage per enemy) without killing any of them.

How does that make machine guns "fine"?

Meh, like the post above, its just well-played satire and trolling. The truth has set us free that certain weapons are trash already, its just basic facts. When will a revamp occur is the real question.

Edited by General Taskeen, 08 June 2013 - 10:01 PM.

[CHWarpath]

GingerBang, on 06 June 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

They rock. They do tons of damage to internals already. Any more and they will be a small laser without a heat penalty. Machines have always been nothing more than a spare tonnage filler. I think all the CoD players hear the phrase machine gun, and think of the damage they do to human flesh, not tons and tons of steel armor. a machine doesn't do {Richard Cameron} to a solid steel wall. Why do you think the US Army has anti-tank artillery, and not just 6 guys with M249's.

That is because an M249 is just a small .223 round. .50 cal can kill light tanks, APC's, and 20mm and 30mm will certainly do in a tank.

[CHWarpath]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 June 2013 - 03:47 AM, said:

Fisrt, GAU-8 is an Auto Cannon, not a Machine Gun. Second The PGU-14 is a Depleted Uranium penitrator with High Explosives added for better levels of excitement.

It is not a Bullet. And thus the GAU-8 is not a Machine Gun.

Depleted uranium does not use HE rounds there smart guy posting youtube videos. Actually own guns like myself and I will take you more serious. A gatling gun is certainly a machine gun and you are trying to push an argument based on terminology. Fact is, it shoots bullets like any other gun.

Edited by CHWarpath, 09 June 2013 - 12:11 AM.

[SixBottles]

CHWarpath, on 09 June 2013 - 12:11 AM, said:

Depleted uranium does not use HE rounds there smart guy posting youtube videos. Actually own guns like myself and I will take you more serious. A gatling gun is certainly a machine gun and you are trying to push an argument based on terminology. Fact is, it shoots bullets like any other gun.

well... to defend the poster... in this instance he's right. technically autocannons dont use "bullets" their ammo is refered to as rounds or shells.
i think thats because the depleted uranium itself has a explosiv property (on impact it will produce a hot dust that will react on contact with the surrounding air and explode - "Pyrophoricity effect")

but NONETHELESS, an autocannon is a subclass of a machine gun - i.e. MACHINE gun as in mechanical automated firearm.


@lockwoodx
so u've done 250dmg
now imagin what u could've done in the exact same situation, in a spider 5D equipped with 3 ML's

and now think about if MG's are balanced.

[Victor Morson]

Goodbye.

Him say machine guns are good! People who say machine guns are bad are fools!

Hello.

[Curccu]

Now that there is 7 pages of AC/MG/GAU-8 argument which is which and can be called what, with shells bullets and rounds.
Can we just buff them a little, remove stupid cone of fire and rename Machineguns to AC/0,12.
Then everyone should be happy except people who are going to start their next sentence with "BUT IT'S NOT CANON!!"

[Zerberus]

One Medic Army, on 08 June 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

Yup, the "incendiary" part is actually a property of the Uranium.

Nope. Incendiary is essentially the military term for "tracer" (though the terms are not wholly interchangeable), because the coating or base burn. Usually Either through friction with the air, or by the propellant igniting it. It is capable of physically starting a fire, which even active Uranium is not. Some rounds are designed to present their incendiary properties on impact instead of in flight, which is why the terms are not interchangeable (Dragons Breath shotgun shells are also incendiary rounds, for example)

http://en.wikipedia....iary_ammunition

Uranium, depleted or not, does not "burn". It`s dust can be ignited, just as most metal dusts can be ignioted (see also "Thermite"), but it is in no way self igniting. The aforementioned pyrophporic effect is in fact no stronger than wioth a lead penetrator, and actually weaker than the dust of most other metals, especially those in the first and second periodic groups (Lithium, magnesium, Cesium, potassium.....)

The ENTIRE reason behing the use of DU in bullets /shells is its higher density than lead (atomic mass depleted Uranium ~ 234, Pb= 207.2), meaning you can make a smaller bullet while retaining the mass, and therefore pack more propellant into the cartridge. This makes for a harder hitting round = deeper penetration.

For a RL example depicting my statement, the GAU-8/A "Avenger" mounted in the nose of an A-10 fires a 4:! mixture of PGU-14/B Armor Piercing Incendiary andPGU-13/B High Explosive Incendiary rounds. Both are incendiary (in the 14/Bs case using red phosphorus ignited by the propellant charge to be a tracer round, wheras the 13/B presents it s incendiary effect together with the detonation on impact), but the PGU-13/B contains zero uranium.

PGU-13/B

PGU-14/B

Edited by Zerberus, 09 June 2013 - 05:33 AM.

[SixBottles]

Zerberus, on 09 June 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

Nope. Incendiary is the military term for "tracer", because the phosphoros coating burns through friction with the air.

http://en.wikipedia....iary_ammunition

Uranium, depleted or not, does not "burn".

it does "burn"

Quote

Depleted uranium is favored for the penetrator because it is self-sharpening and pyrophoric.^[30] On impact with a hard target, such as an armored vehicle, the nose of the rod fractures in such a way that it remains sharp. The impact and subsequent release of heat energy causes it to disintegrate to dust and burn when it reaches air because of its pyrophoric properties.^[30] When a DU penetrator reaches the interior of an armored vehicle it catches fire, often igniting ammunition and fuel, killing the crew and possibly causing the vehicle to explode.

depleted uranium is used cause of its high density AND its pyrophoric property.
if u just want to penetrate u can just use hardened steel. depleted uranium is difficult to produce and much more expensive... oh and its radioactive... the possibility that it can ignite the ammo or fuel of an enemy armored vehicle is the main purpose of the uranium shell.

EDIT:
your edited post makes more sense.
but still, the main reason why they use mixed ammo is because depleted uranium shells are tho feaking expensive and difficult to produce.

again. YES its not a bullet. NO its still a machine gun.


P.S.
"BUT IT'S NOT CANON!!"

Edited by SixBottles, 09 June 2013 - 05:21 AM.

[Zerberus]

SixBottles, on 09 June 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

it does "burn"


depleted uranium is used cause of its high density AND its pyrophoric property.
if u just want to penetrate u can just use hardened steel. depleted uranium is difficult to produce and much more expensive... oh and its radioactive... the possibility that it can ignite the ammo or fuel of an enemy armored vehicle is the main purpose of the uranium shell.

EDIT:
your edited post makes more sense.
but still, the main reason why they use mixed ammo is because depleted uranium shells are tho feaking expensive and difficult to produce.

again. YES its not a bullet. NO its still a machine gun.


P.S.
"BUT IT'S NOT CANON!!"

Actually, most current pure KE penetrators are Tungsten, but in essence we agree, both know what we`re talking about, and it really would just be arguing details *raises beer stein*

Edited by Zerberus, 09 June 2013 - 05:51 AM.

[El Bandito]

What is dumber than this thread is military people dumb enough to handle depleted uranium munitions and get long term illness later in life.

[Pezzer]

Eleshod, on 06 June 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

To add a bit more to Skyfaller's post, the A-10 thunderbolt is nicknamed the tank buster and was LITERALLY built around the GAU-8 gattling gun. It's nicknamed the "Tankbust" because that GAU-8 tears through all modern tank armor like tissue paper...

https://en.wikipedia...i/GAU-8_Avenger

Machine guns are effective against armor =P just not in mechwarrior it seems.

Thought I'd mention that the GAU-8 does tear through modern tank armor like tissue paper. The reason being, the top of your average modern tank might as well BE tissue paper. Most modern tanks carry like 20mm max on the tops of thier turrets/chassis. The real armor is ofc in the X coordinates, front and sides mostly.

Most machine guns today that are in the same realm of size to Mech MGs in lore are still not used to fight tanks. They are used to fight aircraft and people. Given the Mechwarrior universe is in the future, they could be using magic HV 60mm AT rounds, sure, but they are firing at giant robots carrying magic armor that can withstand concentrated radiation/direct fire artillery/ RAIL GUN FIRE several several SEVERAL times to the face.

^This is why I don't understand MG buff-activists. The Mechs in this game might as well be wearing Gundamium and they think modern conventional weapons can pierce that crap. The answer is no, I'm sorry.

[Pezzer]

Curccu, on 09 June 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

Now that there is 7 pages of AC/MG/GAU-8 argument which is which and can be called what, with shells bullets and rounds.
Can we just buff them a little, remove stupid cone of fire and rename Machineguns to AC/0,12.
Then everyone should be happy except people who are going to start their next sentence with "BUT IT'S NOT CANON!!"

Sorry to double-post, but everyone really should read this instead of getting thier rocks off quoting Wikipedia about real-life weaponry, when we are talking about a fictional universe in a fictional video-game after all.

We all get carried away, so let's stop it before it evolves or some crazy flame-war crap starts.

Edited by Pezzer, 09 June 2013 - 08:30 AM.

[Echo6]

El Bandito, on 09 June 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

What is dumber than this thread is military people dumb enough to handle depleted uranium munitions and get long term illness later in life.

I like you, but **** off.