Livewyr, on 10 June 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:
Well.. given that this is the internet and we can't cut peoples' fingers off for acting like highschoolers- there is no dealing with people. They will act the way they want to using any tool given to them. Give them the dynamite, they'll use it on each other.
I choose to just ignore people who are trolls. Look earlier in the thread at when Neverfar was responding to my posts rabidly and looking for a fight. I ignored him, moved on, and chose to focus on people who were interested in actual discussion based on reason rather than emotion. I learned to do this a while ago by watching other forum users who were acting more mature than I was and I saw how it paid off for them (they got to discuss things they wanted rather than being dragged into troll posts). I'm 30 now but a few years ago I'm sure I would have devolved into flaming.
So I think there are plenty of ways to deal with trolls and immature people on the forum. Not to mention moderation.
Livewyr, on 10 June 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:
1: A person who experiences something THAT weird and doesn't investigate at least a little bit, deserves to be ignored.
2: Precisely.. a call for balance in tantrum form, did not require Elo to give it what it truly deserved.
Like I said, taking it to the forums is the first step in investigation. How would you have investigated it? You could try and reproduce it but the hardest bugs to track down are the one you don't have reproduction steps for.
Livewyr, on 10 June 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:
A very niche role for it, that can already be done without all the side-effects BS.
This is where we disagree. I think the ability to quickly see from what perspective a poster is posting is absolutely invaluable. We don't have unlimited time to read forums and what you advocate is simply unrealistic and results in wasting a lot of time sifting through and judging the merit of bad posts to find good ones. Public Elo ratings wouldn't take away your ability to sift through every post if you so desired, but it would create the ability to quickly skim through all the crap on these forums and look for the diamonds in the rough.
Livewyr, on 10 June 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:
The point where PGI could already see the good arguments, and the poster's stats.. and still ignored them.
This is why your point that PGI can see the information therefore we don't need to is invalid. PGI doesn't even look at this information by all indications. PGI is good at marketing, artwork, and PR. They need our help on gameplay, balance, game modes, and maps though. We as a community have orders of magnitude more experience than they do in this area. And we don't even want to get paid,
we just want a really good MechWarrior game after all these years!
Livewyr, on 10 June 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:
Holy Toxic Garbage Batman! 6+ pages removed.
This is what happens when people respond to trolls =/. Soy was pulling full-time work derailing the thread.
LegoPirate, on 10 June 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:
32 pages of this crap? im embarrassed for all of you. go out and enjoy the nice weather instead of keyboardwarrior online.
Stuck at work =/. And I dunno about you but where I am (Maryland) there were tornadoes and heavy rain and wind when I was posting.
M e g a M a n X, on 10 June 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:
True. Human nature is like that. Especially the shallow ones (in that case it's not the opinionated person's fault). They don't listen to reason you need to show them some sort of badge or something. But I think creating a system that encourages badge (ELO) flapping to prove merit is worse compared to a system that proves merit by simply proving merit. Is it really that hard to prove something without an ELO badge? I would immediately instinctively say "No".
The difference is time. In a perfect world we of course would be able to read every post and analyze it purely based on its own worth. But when you're looking at a 30+ page discussion, you aren't going to read every single post. And if you do, then you don't have time to read the other four 30+ page discussions on the topics in which you are interested. Flashing your badge is like saying, "this is worth your time to read!" In no way does it infringe on your ability to read every single post if you so wish.
M e g a M a n X, on 10 June 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:
As I've said a top player should be able to present his ideas clearly due to the sheer amount of experience.
If there is really such a player who can't explain himself because he's such a special genius, then that is not the fault of the majority. Friends in his group should just act like spokesperson or something. Because it is truly unreasonable to accept someone's idea over the majority without a decent explanation (i refer you to my topmost post)
I'm not saying a post should be accepted without explanation at all! I absolutely don't think that just because some high-rated player comes into a thread and says, "lasers are OP" without further explanation that all the sudden everyone with a lower Elo should fall in line behind that opinion.
Having Elo public is a convenience, not a depiction of authority. It helps raise the level of discourse because it helps us understand one another. When a low Elo player says that LRMs are powerful and a high Elo player says that LRMs are not powerful, they may both be correct! And since they both believe themselves totally correct based on what they see with their own two eyes, they will not be persuaded to the other one's opinion. It happens every day on these forums! Showing Elo would prod the higher Elo player to have the thought process of "well he's probably a relatively bad player playing with other relatively bad players, so THAT's why he's saying what he's saying." Likewise the low-rated player could take a look at his Elo and will be prompted into thinking, "well this guy is a little more advanced than I am at the game, maybe once I get better I will think LRMs aren't that great after all." And in a thread about the experience of new players, this gets totally reversed.
M e g a M a n X, on 10 June 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:
"We can get all high and mighty and make the claim that every last post on the forum should be judged on its merit alone"
- i think this is not a completely high and mighty idea because we are in a forum. Discussion and explanation are the reasons why forums were made. It is plainly a basic (not high and mighty) requirement here. Forumers automatically read interesting things for them (because we are in a forum) without looking for the poster's ELO. Words are your swords and shields here. Unexplainable OMG tactics in the battlefield. Here, words.
The reason it is "high and mighty" as I called it is because it is extremely idealistic. We don't have time to read every post on the forum!
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