87 replies to this topic

[Haradim]

Light mechs managing to draw a significant proportion of an enemy team's attention, and surviving long enough for it to matter, typically reflects a lack of discipline on the part of the enemy rather than any merits of the light mech or pilot. It's a valid enough tactic, but one that will fail more often than it succeeds.

Barring flukes of luck or unusually poor loadout combos, no mech can survive the sustained attention of a team for more than a few moments. An Atlas is no different; it's armor keeps it pushing through multiple engagements where many other chassis would be dead or half way there. And it does this while still bringing enormous firepower to bear, which no light mech can manage.

Edited by Haradim, 06 June 2013 - 11:16 PM.

[YueFei]

A properly piloted Atlas soaks more damage than a Stalker can. Stalkers can't use their arms as shields, an Atlas can. And an Atlas has more armor and internal structure than a Stalker.

Put a lazy pilot in both and the Stalker lasts longer simply because of the enormous side torsos, which then transfer 50% to the CT when destroyed. Put a top notch pilot in the Atlas who knows his angles, anticipates enemy fire and understands the enemy's weapon cooldowns, and has quick reflexes (yes, fast reflexes in a 100 ton mech) and blocks shots with his arms, and the Atlas lasts longer.

I'm not that good a pilot, so I can't do it reliably, but I've seen Atlas pilots who could.

I would suggest you practice more and learn how to swat enemy projectiles with your arms. It isn't easy to do, and it shouldn't be easy to do, but if you can pull it off, it's pretty sweet.

[DocBach]

I think the problem you have is you aren't using effective use of camouflage... Thankfully, the United States Army has discovered that the Universal Camouflage Pattern like the one this Atlas is painted up in makes the 'Mech near invisible to a MechWarrior's naked eye, no matter what the surrounding terrain features are.

If you are visually invisible, you aren't a bullet magnet.

[Xanador]

I totally agree! The linear scaling of the armor doesn't outweight the fact that a single hitbox of a light mech is 10 times harder to hit (for me 20 times :-) ). you see it to often: last mech the brawling invincible spider

[Adsbom]

Steel your Life, on 06 June 2013 - 11:11 PM, said:

my argument is that i dont think the Atlas really does what its supposed to mainly becasue other mechs like the Stalker seem to outclass it in damage and survivabilty and scouts seem to outclass it in tanking and distraction and also because of their longevity they get high damage marks by end game.

what you said in your post brings me to the section of my OP where i say that outfitting the Atlas with longer range weapons like your ac5's and hiding behidn rocks and staying behind the frontlines or in the back among your team (what you called "positioning") seems to be the only way to play the Atlas effectively

I have never actually deliberately used my uac5s as a long range weapon, my DDC is a brawler first and foremost, but I will admit that I don't go charging the enemy or anything like a true tank cause in this game it will just get you killed.

What I think might be the core issue here is not that the Atlas can't tank but rather that in mechwarrior there has never been a role that can be solely and unambiguously called a tank. This idea is reinforced by your claim that lights are better at tanking than an Atlas. Let me explain further:
You would agree that an Atlas is a brawler, that is what it was designed for and it does it well; this role obviously has tanking aspects, you must get close to an enemy(s) take a lot of damage while dealing it, ie tanklike.
The Stalker is predominantly used in this game as a high alpha long range sniper, as such it draws a lot of return fire, again this could be called tanking.
Lights find the enemy and generally will do their best to distract them using their speed and manouevrability to avoid being killed, by distracting the enemy they can be said to be acting like tanks.

However, none of these roles is true tanking, each of the examples above demonstrate tanking in some way or another though the liklihood of death while doing any one of them is different. What I mean by this is that in your Stalker you are far away and can easily retreat or take cover if things aren't going your way, similarly for lights you can use your speed to retreat. For the Atlas though once you commit that is it, either you walk through the wreckage of your enemies or lie smoldering among them. It is this that I think leads to their perceived weakness, the other two examples give you a second chance in a way, whereas the Atlas is all or nothing.

[YueFei]

Adsbom, on 06 June 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

For the Atlas though once you commit that is it, either you walk through the wreckage of your enemies or lie smoldering among them. It is this that I think leads to their perceived weakness, the other two examples give you a second chance in a way, whereas the Atlas is all or nothing.

For an Atlas pilot, the only way out is through the enemy.

[Kmieciu]

Max armor values, as we all know were taken from table top game, where dice rolls were used to determine hit location.

In MWO, we use mouse: point and click to apply damage.

Every Atlas pilot knows that the Atlas has too much armor in the legs and arms (because nobody is aiming at them anyway), and too little on the torso (where everybody aims at).

The only way to fix this issue, not only for the Atlas but for every other mech, is to get rid of armor limitations per component. Keep the max armor limit, but get rid of the component limit. If someone wants to put 600 points of armor on the center torso, and 1-2 points on the other locations - let them do it!

That would increase the variety on the battlefield. Right now, I know the exact number of hits that every Atlas on the battlefield can take from my 2xAC20. Without armor limitations every enemy mech would be a surprise. Do I hit this one in the legs, arms or go for the center torso?

[Taemien]

Atlas is on of the hardest mechs to pilot because of all the things you have to be aware of at once. But like others have said. its a pain in the butt to take down and you usually need help. Going toe to toe with one usually means you're in for a bad day. Also an Atlas can have a similar loadout as a Stalker. The RS can easily mount 4 PPCs.. and have the heat to back it up. Not to mention it can aim those PPCs in angles the Stalker cannot.

Surprised its not used for that purpose instead of the Stalker.

[FunkyFritter]

Get in line. There are numerous other mechs that are far worse off than the Atlas.

[William Mountbank]

As a spider pilot in a good match I'm looking at 700+ damage. But this is from the fact that I'll still be alive at the end - and that isn't because I've been weaving around among the enemy mechs. I'm always in pug matches, and the normal procedure is for mechs just to run at max engine, straight to the enemy, who pick them off as they dribble in one by one.
As a light you survive by constantly disengaging the enemy so that you can come back in a favourable position to re-engage (which is why seismic is such a light killer).

The reason Atlases go down so quick is that normally it's just one of them (surviving from the team) facing 8 enemy mechs, and one friendly light behind the enemy mechs shooting them in the back. Then when the Atlas goes down it's up to the poor old Spider to try to string all those mechs out so he can take them one on one in the hope that at least one kill will reduce the sour taste of steamroller oil.

[Soy]

Steel your Life, on 06 June 2013 - 11:11 PM, said:

[...]my OP where i say that outfitting the Atlas with longer range weapons like your ac5's and hiding behidn rocks and staying behind the frontlines or in the back among your team (what you called "positioning") seems to be the only way to play the Atlas effectively and this is where i have my problem[...]

...grats, you're the most annoyingly useless player to ever have on a team.

Edited by Soy, 07 June 2013 - 01:13 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Atlas suffers from not having enough firepower, the awkward, low-slung arms, no access to 400 rated engines, and most people in general understanding that you must take out the command atlas first.

[S p a n i a r d]

(to the OP)

You've said so many things not all completely wrong but all in all, i disagree with you.

The Atlas is not too weak for its intended purpose. I want to say a lot about your
statements but they're too many and it would take a lot of time, so i'll just say this:

1) Consider that most of the players here disagree with your point (which means the way
you should interpret it, "i think there's a possibility that i might be wrong". Although for me all
in all as I've already stated, i completely do not agree with your main idea).

2) I suggest you should play a light/medium mech. I will almost assure you, you will realize
how good a mech an Atlas is when you do. It's not "too weak".

Edited by S p a n i a r d, 07 June 2013 - 02:27 AM.

[Demuder]

I only see Atlai going down fast when the rest of their team is not supporting them. If they have a couple of coordinated players about them, they are quite unstoppable. Which seems just about right imho.

[KharnZor]

There is nothing more scary than the steady march of a well piloted Atlas with proper support. Without support they are just another mech out there that can be taken apart just like any other.

[Training Instructor]

The Atlas is good for herding pugs, as they know you're a magnet and are thus useful to them. If you can embrace this, you can lead them into favorable engagements. If you can get a couple of guys shooting at the guy who runs out in front, you'll feel a lot better about the strength of the Atlas.

[Joey Tankblaster]

Running in an Highlander beside an Atlas left me with the impression that most enemys find it attractive to kill the Atlas rather than me. So in a way - he is a bullet magnet, absorbs punishment, while the rest of the team can bring havoc.

In the consequence - he dies first, but the team may more likely win.

[Artgathan]

@ OP:

Part of the problem is that your argument draws a comparison between elite light pilots and novice (or average) Atlas pilots. This is not a fair comparison to make. Running into an elite Atlas pilot is terrifying - they know how to distribute damage across their mech for maximum survivability and their weapons payload carves up your armor every time they actually face you.

Is an Atlas a one-pilot engine of destruction? In the right hands, yes. I've seen an Atlas survive against an enemy lance for over a minute through the effective use of cover and torso twisting. However, if an Atlas charges straight into the enemy it will surely die - it is a huge bullet magnet (and do to its size, an excellent bullet catcher). But the same is true of a light mech - any that charge straight at me end up eating the dirt the second time I pull the trigger.

Does the Atlas seem underpowered? It depends how you use it. I use Highlanders (not the Atlas) as my premiere assault mech, and I've learned that I am not an unstoppable juggernaught. If I engage the entire enemy force by myself I'll die in a matter of seconds (as I should). A good assault pilot draws attention (by delivering staggering amounts of damage) to themself and then forces the enemy to ignore their allies. Get their attention, draw behind cover. You have armor, but not infinite amounts - use it sparingly (take only the hits you need to in order to protect your allies and draw fire away from them).

[Mycrus]

it ain't the mech but rather the pilot...

pilots that are bullet magnets will be bullet magnets even in spiders...

[Blackadder]

The atlas is not the issue. The issue is that due to lack of governing mechanics players are able to do to much damage per round to individual targets on a mech. When players can pinpoint damage in excess of 50% of the armor on a mech the issue will always remain. Mechs currently are not walking tanks, they are just like any other fps where the player is dead after 2-3 hits. If you think the atlas is bad try running a medium for a week. Until pgi fixes the huge alphas players are putting out nothing will change