84 replies to this topic

[Nebelfeuer]

LRM DMG is to high for the current trajectory.
AMS is to effective since the previous patch.
Currently LRMS are hiiting to hard or not hitting at all(AMS) especially with smaler launchers(no I do not boat them)

You had a good balance beifore the LRM changes (trajectory/splash/...) in the prevoius patch:
hitting hard but hard to land

and another working one directly before this patch (with the exception of AMS being to effective):
hitting often but moderate dmg

That feedback is coming from someone who used LRMs all of the time.

Edited by Nebelfeuer, 05 June 2013 - 06:06 PM.

[Meta 2013]

Ok what the !@#$ did you all do now. Suddenly there are 4 lrm boats per match ... which means that LRM's are way OP again and are the exploit of the week. Come on folks make them reasonable and quit screwin with them. This every other day it sucks to play cause they op'ed LRM's AGAIN.... is getting very old very fast. also could we make it so you don't have to hide behind a 10 story building before the darn things are blocked by cover.

Meta

Sorry no patience for this anymore.

[Dude42]

It's posts like these that make me yearn for a dislike button.

[BigMekkUrDakka]

and again l2p issues, i seen people on my team who had numerical advantage(and equal or higher tonnage) and ecm! being destroyed by 2-3 lrms boats sitting in upper river city supported by lonely jager, they was too afraid to close that 400m gap and stomp lrm boat's face in, trying to outcamp them and going one by one in open taking lrm barrage and trying to hide, that was miserable sight and it would be the same against no lrms i think just bad teamplay always that makes people call some weapons OP. The only OP thing in this game is teamplay u can load a 200 dmg alfa (okay maybe less ) w properly focused fire no matter what weapons and what mechs u use, and if that game wont die due 3pv u will see that greatly focused fire coring atlas or stalker instantly in cw.
i was on lrm boat myself that time

[senaiboy]

No, LRMs are just right at the moment.

Bring AMS, bring ECM, stay away from the open, get a few teammates and close the distance while staying in cover, get your teammates to provide suppressing fire, etc. Many people have forgotten how to deal with LRMs now after they've been 'missing' for months.

Honestly, start packing AMS - it's only 1.5 ton and if everyone brings one you'll practically not have anything to fear about LRMs even in the open.

[StandingCow]

LRMs are fine... OP, you had the damn answer to your complaint right in your post complaining about LRMs...

A...M...S

[Nebelfeuer]

Sorry folks I do not consider AMS and ECM, which basically are automatic hardcounters, a worthwhile gamechanic. They do not require an action from me except mounting them. I actually liked the gameplay prior to the trajectory buff where you had to work to make your missles hit and evading them was possible by timing it right. After the hotfix it was bearable balancewise (unless someone brought a AMS), but not as much fun. Making them another stack as many as possible and click one button unless someone has brought the hardcounter weapon is not heighteneing my playerexperiance.
How a autoplay button for everyone if you like playstyles like this?

Edited by Nebelfeuer, 05 June 2013 - 11:47 PM.

[xengk]

Missile are in a good spot right now.
Currently almost 50% of the missile will miss if the target is moving, less missile will hit if the target have higher speed. LRM will score 100% hit only if the target is standing still, or fired in near brawling range (300m~500m).

With 50% accuracy, LRM10 are only doing about 5.5 damage per salvo.
It is like getting hit with a single Mlas, that is hardly OP. Plus we use up 6 ton and 3 slot to do that, Mlas can do it with 1 ton, 1slot and have unlimited "ammo".
Even boated to 60 missile per salvo, that is 33 damage which are spread all over the body. 2 Gauss rifle shots can deliver the similar damage plus having them focus on a single component.

We sacrifice tonnage and slots to deal similar damage to weapon system that uses less ton and slot, in-exchange for indirect fire and (relative)safety from front-line.
I think it is a fair tradeoff.

Edited by xengk, 06 June 2013 - 01:14 AM.

[ChallengerCC]

The LRM- System is fine for now. Not to mutch dmg and not to low. And it need some skill to shoot theme effectivly.

The smaler LRMs need some love lrm 5 and 10. I dont know how but they are not used often.
Maybe that LRM-5 can lock parts of a mech and you need to hold the lock on that part with a zoom or so ?

Like in MW3 intro the vulture targets directly the shoulder. ^^

Edited by ChallengerCC, 06 June 2013 - 01:36 AM.

[Kmieciu]

The one thing I find anticlimactic is that the LRM hit the center torso so often. When I kill people using LRMs (no Atemis) , it's always the center torso that gets destroyed first. It's never the side torso...

[Th0rsten]

LRM speed, flightpath and damage seem perfect. I also like the effectiveness of ams.

I just think the spread is too tight without any modifiers (no tag/narc/ LoS for artemis)

Other than that I am really happy.

[Jam the Bam]

I think they are just right just now, people seem to have forgotten how to evade them, got some good high damage matches in my catapult simply because everyone was stood in the open and no-one closed up with me.

Once people remember how they work the game will be just fine.

Also yes AMS is a hard counter, that's the point of them, but so are buildings.

[Revorn]

Vs Pilots who use, AMS, ECM and Cover rigth, LRMs are usless as always. Dmg Socre varies much with your Opponents Skill to handle LRMs. imho

[Nebelfeuer]

ChallengerCC, on 06 June 2013 - 01:31 AM, said:

The LRM- System is fine for now. Not to mutch dmg and not to low. And it need some skill to shoot theme effectivly.

Thats is what I deny wholeheartedly. -Maybe it´s because I learned to meke use of 1-2 LRM launchers of all sizes during a period where LRMs where considered weak by most players but the current skill level required is very low and they hit to hard for that. we basically have the situation before the last hotfix. high trajectory=many hits with about the same dmg as before the splashradius reduction.

Kmieciu, on 06 June 2013 - 01:40 AM, said:

The one thing I find anticlimactic is that the LRM hit the center torso so often. When I kill people using LRMs (no Atemis) , it's always the center torso that gets destroyed first. It's never the side torso...

That is another problem of the high trajectory - things coming from above tend to hit the head which counts as CT and then there is people trying to hit you face to face and present you the front center of their mech so again CT. The spread to the ST is there though( especially without artemis and more then with the former trajectory that tended to hit the side of the enemy that was facing you mostly) I´ve killed a few mechs with LRMs that where running XL engines and already took some hits to ST.

Jammerben87, on 06 June 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

Also yes AMS is a hard counter, that's the point of them, but so are buildings.

Buildings need active play to function as cover - ams does not.

Edited by Nebelfeuer, 06 June 2013 - 02:32 AM.

[Jam the Bam]

Nebelfeuer, on 06 June 2013 - 02:29 AM, said:

Buildings need active play to function as cover - ams does not.

Compared to LRM's which simply require a lock?

AMS is Minimal play counter to a minimal play weapon.

The AMS also has to be effective to be worth taking, if LRM 5's could get past it, it would be absolutely useless against anything else.

[senaiboy]

This isn't the typical FPS where you jump in a game and then decide how you want to play it. Half the battle is already decided the moment you choose your mech - whether you bring AMS, which modules you used, etc. That's the beauty of Mechwarrior games, it's not all about "skills" like how fast you can aim.

I have no trouble evading LRMs, and if you jumpjets at the right moment half the salvo will hit your leg instead as well (in case you cant get into cover in time). So far I've not been killed by LRMs, but have killed a lot of players who still think LRMs are not a threat and stayed in the open taking in multiple LRM salvos. That mentality will eventually shift when these players die more often.

Also the high trajectory is only when there's an enemy spotter, which means the spotter is within your view as well. Which also means the LRM boat can't see you, so Artemis is not active. Hence Artemis and the high trajectory is mutually exclusive.

Edited by senaiboy, 06 June 2013 - 03:30 AM.

[Nebelfeuer]

senaiboy, on 06 June 2013 - 03:24 AM, said:

This isn't the typical FPS where you jump in a game and then decide how you want to play it. Half the battle is already decided the moment you choose your mech - whether you bring AMS, which modules you used, etc. That's the beauty of Mechwarrior games, it's not all about "skills" like how fast you can aim.

And what is wrong with a system that needs both preparation and ingamereaction to counter certain mechanics like it used to be? Also since a stonem, paper, scissor mechanic does mean you come unprepared for a lot of situations when you do random drops ( there is no way to know your or your enemy teams loadouts nor the map ) and knowing the tendenci of a lot of players to play heavyly onesided builds I´d always favour solutions that require playerskills to loadout hardcounters.
JJ evading is indead one option to spread and evade a lot of LRM dmg on faster mechs - unfortunately this mechanic is not usable for mee anymore since the shake tends to give me headaches.

senaiboy, on 06 June 2013 - 03:24 AM, said:

Also the high trajectory is only when there's an enemy spotter, which means the spotter is within your view as well. Which also means the LRM boat can't see you, so Artemis is not active. Hence Artemis and the high trajectory is mutually exclusive.

Untrue - that is what was addressed in the hotfix after the trajectory change. flightpath is basically the same wether or not you have a spotter.

[hoverstorm]

Lrms are finally balanced. Leave them the way they are now.

[senaiboy]

Nebelfeuer, on 06 June 2013 - 03:59 AM, said:

And what is wrong with a system that needs both preparation and ingamereaction to counter certain mechanics like it used to be? Also since a stonem, paper, scissor mechanic does mean you come unprepared for a lot of situations when you do random drops ( there is no way to know your or your enemy teams loadouts nor the map ) and knowing the tendenci of a lot of players to play heavyly onesided builds I´d always favour solutions that require playerskills to loadout hardcounters

In-game reaction still works, as said above people including me are able to evade most LRMs. The "skill" is to be aware of LRM boats and know your surroundings, which I believe most players will eventually learn. Non-spotted LRM flightpath has not really changed much - if you had no problem evading it in the previous patch it shouldn't be any different now. It is the introduction of spotted LRM flightpath that makes the LRM do a more divebombing trajectory. Buff in damage and removal of splash has sort of fixed the previous CT-coring tendencies but keeping roughly the same damage as in Closed Beta.

When UI 2.0 and Lobby are in place I believe you'll be able to choose which mech to drop with after the map is chosen, as well as chat with your teammates before dropping into the match.

Nebelfeuer, on 06 June 2013 - 03:59 AM, said:

Untrue - that is what was addressed in the hotfix after the trajectory change. flightpath is basically the same wether or not you have a spotter.

Not really, the flightpath for spotted and non-spotted salvos are different. What the hotfix changed was to adjust the almost vertical flightpath for spotted salvos, it did not change the flightpath for non-spotted.

http://mwomercs.com/...te-may-21-2013/

Edited by senaiboy, 06 June 2013 - 05:01 AM.

[Parduke]

I think something is definately wonky about the Flight paths or hit detection mechanic. I have watched from the front (I was targeting for LRMs) a whole mass of LRMs go thru the side of mechs (arm and side torso) and do min damage before hitting the CT and coring the mech, I've watched them hit the rear of a mech and damage the front CT. Something isn't acting correctly and I don't think it's just splash damage, it's more like they are ignoring/not registering on any hitbox other than CT unless they hit one other than CT just right (1 time out of 20). They used to hit where they hit but now they ghost thru to CT.