1263 replies to this topic

[Suprentus]

Man, everyone and his mother is a naysayer and is certain they know how to program balance mechanics better than PGI. Forum warriors, go figure.

I think these changes are a good idea. I'm especially excited about trying some good SPL builds now. The SPL went too long without getting any love.

Edited by Suprentus, 11 June 2013 - 12:42 PM.

[DEMAX51]

WolvesX, on 11 June 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

In addition.

2 PPC 1 Gauss Rifle = HIGH ALHPA AND NOT TARGETED BY THIS NERF.

Also: =0.5....

25 damage is NOT a high alpha. My 6ML Jenner has a higher alpha than that.

[Rubidiy]

Someone please explain about 6 Large Lasers.

Edited by Rubidiy, 11 June 2013 - 12:43 PM.

[Suprentus]

DEMAX51, on 11 June 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

25 damage is NOT a high alpha. My 6ML Jenner has a higher alpha than that.

But he got killed by a 2 PPC 1 Gauss build before. That makes it OP! Instead of facing the challenge like an actual gamer should, PGI should hold his hand and make the game about giant stompy death robots less volatile.

[WolvesX]

The entire heat penaltiy thing is terrible.

Also the LARGE PULSE LASERS don't need to be nerfed, they need a buff as the MPLs.

[Kunae]

DEMAX51, on 11 June 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

25 damage is NOT a high alpha. My 6ML Jenner has a higher alpha than that.

10+10+15=35, NOT 25.

And being pin-point, it is high.

[WolvesX]

DEMAX51, on 11 June 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

25 damage is NOT a high alpha. My 6ML Jenner has a higher alpha than that.

35

[Reno Blade]

For the heatscale limit and negative effects, can we shrink the bar to get a red bar at 75% for the "normal" shutdown limit and the top of the scale beeing the limit for always taking damage instead of some imaginary 150% outside the scale?

For the boating effect, could we have a second bar that makes the effect visible? (maybe on the weapons fired)
Mechwarrior2:
http://youtu.be/bonai7PXfUM?t=4m23s

I'd like to have an exponential curve that starts early and rises pretty high at the end.
Obviously thats just gut feeling until we can see how well it goes.

So for PPCs I'd start with 2 PPCs/erPPCs
2 PPCs = +2 heat
3 PPCs = +5 heat
4 PPCs = +11 heat
5 PPCs = +25 heat
6 PPCs = +36 heat

For Gauss (1 heat)
EDIT:
Gauss could be grouped together with PPC and erPPC to gain the same penalty regardless of combination of Gauss/PPC
1 Gauss +1 PPC = +2 heat
1 Gauss +2 PPCs = +5 heat
2 Gauss +1 PPCs = +5 heat
1 Gauss +3 PPCs = +11 heat
2 Gauss +2 PPCs = +11 heat
1 Gauss +4 PPCs = +25 heat

It's like a MLaser more for 3 weapons and like a ERPPC more for 4 weapons.
I see 3 and 4 weapons the most common builds and the most efficient. A little heat wont change much for the low number number of weapons, but will push them back to where they belong to (average) and punish the builds that use 2+3 PPC and Gauss (a must!).


For MLaser I'd go about this curve.
4 ML = +1 heat
5 ML = +2 heat
6 ML = +3 heat
7 ML = +5 heat
8 ML = +10 heat
9 ML = +18 heat

For LLaser /erLLaser
2 LL = +2 heat
3 LL = +5 heat
4 LL = +12 heat
5 LL = +20 heat

For AC20 (7 heat)
2 AC20 +10 heat

For SRM/LRM
2 Packs +1 heat
3 Packs +2 heat
4 Packs +5 heat
5 Packs +11 heat
6 Packs +16 heat

Edited by Reno Blade, 04 July 2013 - 07:17 AM.

[Budor]

Looking good but 150% is way to high put it at 125% max, id rather have it at 100...

[WolvesX]

Kunae, on 11 June 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

10+10+15=35, NOT 25.

And being pin-point, it is high.

ok.

HIGHLANDER 732

3 PPC = No heat penalty
1 Gauss =

45

High enough?

[Xenroth]

I personally think there is no reason to limit small weaopon boating, like medium lasers, because the problem at lasers is, the mediums that can carry more than 6 die as fast as they can kill you. They are also not that easy to play, especially if you finally will fix host state rewind that it will actually work (The current HSR is just not working, every weapon still misses on short range combats because it looks like hsr isn't calculating your own movement so your weapons have a divergence ... ! The only problem atm is the boating of heavy high damage weapons like Large Lasers and PPC's/ERPPC's giving you high alpha strikes ...

You also should start having a penaltiy for more than 2 PPC's because otherwise all your thoughts make no sense because most common builds use 3 PPC's/ERPPC's and a Gauss or 4ERPPC's, so a penalty of 5 heat is nothing you even would notice.

You just should think about giving the PPC's/ERPPC's the heat they deserve that is not close to a large laser (lol) try to adjust them back to TableTop (the ERPPC has the heat value of the Tabletop PPC), because atm the PPC's has 1 more heat than a large laser, but deals pinpoint damage and deals the damage instantly ...

Just my 2cent

Edited by Xenroth, 11 June 2013 - 12:58 PM.

[Mokou]

Quote

Heat Damage at High Heat Levels We now have a system in test that will apply damage to your Mech’s internal center torso if your Mech exceeds 150% of its tolerable heat level. While your Mech is above 150% heat, it will take damage over time. Once your Mech has cooled below 150%, it will no longer take heat damage. Be careful with that override button or high heat alphas when you’re near your max heat threshold.

So if i use override, shoot and overheat to 149% my mech will not have any damage?

[WolvesX]

Oh my god, I can't even tell how much I hate the "anti-boating" idea.

[Vasces Diablo]

Kitane, on 11 June 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

1) Treat ER PPC and PPCs as a one type of weapon, ER LL and LL too.

2) Set the PPC limit to 2, 3 PPC + Gauss builds should already be affected by a penalty.

3) AC20 should be limited to one, with a significant heat penalty for firing two at once.

4) 150% heat limit is not going to have any noticeable effect on the game. Most builds will never get that high even if they tried.

1. Yes, they should absolutly be considered the same weapons for purposes of heat penalty.
2. Couldn't agree more
3. I'm fine with it being one, but I don't know that the heat penalty needs to be "significant"
4. If we're talking about CT damage, the threshold should be pretty high.

All that said, I would rather the boating penalty be a function of the mech, or expressed as a mech quirk.

ie. 4 ML+ is a max before penalty, but In Hunch 4p it's 6.
2 PPC is the max before penalty, but on base Awesome, it's 3.

This would allow for fairly strict requirements to prevent boating without punishing common/iconic/cannon variants.

[keith]

DEMAX51, on 11 June 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

Everything in this post sounds absolutely awesome!

Thank you, Paul!

this is a horrible idea. paul is 1 of the worst balance devs i have seen ever. if u get rid of the 4-6 assault mechs per match, don't have to worry about the massive alpha boating problem. instead makes up these half assed systems

[Kunae]

WolvesX, on 11 June 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

Oh my god, I can't even tell how much I hate the "anti-boating" idea.

It's like making laws about how much pee you can hold in your bladder.

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

MG and flamer damage buff - good
Pulse lasers change - I don't know, have to test them in game to say.
Heat change - it's simply stupid. It might end up with some weird **** like 6 MLs + 3LLs be cooler than 9 MLs.
Why don't you add more heat penalties to the existing system and don't create some unecessary mechanisms? Ever heard of KISS rule?

[WolvesX]

Also, why no buff to SRM?

[Christmas]

WolvesX, on 11 June 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

The entire heat penaltiy thing is terrible.

Also the LARGE PULSE LASERS don't need to be nerfed, they need a buff as the MPLs.

Agreed !

[DocBach]

Kunae, on 11 June 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

It's like making laws about how much pee you can hold in your bladder.

Its for the children! Limit urine storage to no more than 400cc to prevent bedwetting and public accidents!