93 replies to this topic

[General Taskeen]

Pretty sure there was a poll about Mech size adjustments, most people agree, each weight class category should be more consistent. To me, Light Mechs + only the 3 Mediums (hunchback, blackjack, cicada) seem consistent.

Everything else is enourmous or just whack. Centurions and Trebs standing at the same height as heavies and even close to height of Assault Mechs. Inconsistency with Awesome in comparison to a skinner smaller (somehow) 85 ton Stalker with a wider torso than a 90 ton Highlander.

[WANTED]

No problems with mediums for me. I pilot them more than my lights. I got better stats in them than my lights as well. You gotta know when to engage and when to disengage and use terrain then re-engage.

[AlmightyAeng]

Coralld, on 13 June 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

True but then the question I must ask is, why run a Medium at all when you can run a fast heavy who can match the Mediums speed wile still using a STD Engines and yet still have 50% more armor and firepower other then that you are a fan of Mediums for what ever personal reason?

In the current meta? Not much. You're often rewarded for bringing the biggest and baddest. More armor can equal more time firing and more tonnage means more weapons.

That said, I'm one of the hopeful crowd that CW will include severe tonnage/weight class restrictions (possibly even chassis restrictions) on drops. So our group has been experimenting with what combos work.

[MaddMaxx]

IV Amen, on 13 June 2013 - 01:30 AM, said:

I thought that was PGI's job

Actually, PGI simply provides the Tools. It is a poor carpenter that blames his shoddy work/play on said tools.

[MaddMaxx]

Xeno Phalcon, on 13 June 2013 - 03:08 AM, said:

FupDup also posted this on a thread about tribs (Trib is between dragon and jager):

Now take 1 of each weight class and only pick out the humanoid style Mechs and use that just like the Top image. What about the FAT Mechs, of which there are many. Using Pictures to suit your argument, that do not show the full spectrum is disingenuous really.

[BlightFang]

Adridos, on 13 June 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

Here's a newer one:

Did some magic wanding and put the data into excel:



normalized columns are just the column before it divided by its average.

Edited by BlightFang, 13 June 2013 - 07:34 AM.

[Adridos]

Nice chart. However, a thing to note here is that all of those are front profile shots and as such, mechs liek Stalker seem to be much smaller than they should be. When also comparing side of the thing, it's the biggest of them all.

[Matroid]

BlightFang,

i love the excel sheet comparing the sizes in pixel/ton. this however only looks at a front profile, is there any way to get side profiles to compare also?

- the Awesome is huge from the front and thin from the side
- the Stalker is small from the front, and large from the side


* Edit: crap. Adridos beat me to the post

Edited by Hadros, 13 June 2013 - 07:42 AM.

[BlightFang]

Hadros, on 13 June 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

BlightFang,

i love the excel sheet comparing the sizes in pixel/ton. this however only looks at a front profile, is there any way to get side profiles to compare also?

- the Awesome is huge from the front and thin from the side
- the Stalker is small from the front, and large from the side


* Edit: crap. Adridos beat me to the post

If someone has a side siluette I can do that too. I'm off to work though. Won't be back for many hours, so maybe somebody else can do it.

[Gallowglas]

I'm with El Bandito on this one. I think the biggest problem is that many of the mediums are as large as some of the heavies and, thus, don't have the same smaller target advantages that lights get.

[Strum Wealh]

Adridos, on 13 June 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

Actually, this is the most accurate you can get...

I could just make a picture of all mechs standing next to each other in CryEngine, but due to that silly thing called perspective, you wouldn't see anything right except for the one directly in front of the camera.

Say, do you have a list of the heights, in meters (as I take it that is the unit that CryEngine uses), of each 'Mech that could be posted here?

I did an estimate some time ago (part 1 and part 2), where the canonical Centurion (which is far more humanoid than its MWO counterpart) ended be being around 10 meters tall (closer to about 10.8 meters tall, if we use correct human proportions and assume the entire head is the same size as a large BMC Mini).

I'd be interested in seeing how close that estimate is, as well as the actual size relationships between the MWO 'Mechs.

[Crimson Fenris]

Some stepping with data of side profiles may be interesting, and we will be sure about some size disparities between mechs...

[NinetyProof]

Lagster, on 13 June 2013 - 01:20 AM, said:

... is that there's really only 2 speeds: Fast Enough and Not Fast Enough.

Actually you, like most medium pilots, left off the most crucial speed: Max Speed

The issue, by and large, is that people just want to "boat max weapons" so they can get big damage numbers so they can get big CB/XP or decent K/D ratio or whatever. So they take a medium that could go 100 KPH (elited) and they max out their weapons for that big 40 Alpha and end up going less then 60KPH ... and consequently rush head long into battle and die immediately after 2 or 3 Alphas ... and then go out and fail and blame PGI for bad game design.

Vs a smart medium pilots that starts with the max engine, and then works backwards with the load out to get the most DPS they can and yet still maintain that advantage of speed.

So the *real* issue with mediums is the people that think mediums are weapon boats that are just a bit smaller then assaults ... instead of realizing they are scouts that are just a bit larger them lights.

[Gallowglas]

NinetyProof, on 13 June 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

Actually you, like most medium pilots, left off the most crucial speed: Max Speed

Let's not forget "ludicrous speed".

[Evi1Gnom3]

NinetyProof, on 13 June 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

Actually you, like most medium pilots, left off the most crucial speed: Max Speed

The issue, by and large, is that people just want to "boat max weapons" so they can get big damage numbers so they can get big CB/XP or decent K/D ratio or whatever. So they take a medium that could go 100 KPH (elited) and they max out their weapons for that big 40 Alpha and end up going less then 60KPH ... and consequently rush head long into battle and die immediately after 2 or 3 Alphas ... and then go out and fail and blame PGI for bad game design.

Vs a smart medium pilots that starts with the max engine, and then works backwards with the load out to get the most DPS they can and yet still maintain that advantage of speed.

So the *real* issue with mediums is the people that think mediums are weapon boats that are just a bit smaller then assaults ... instead of realizing they are scouts that are just a bit larger them lights.

I wish I could like this more than once!

[Trauglodyte]

NinetyProof, on 13 June 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

Actually you, like most medium pilots, left off the most crucial speed: Max Speed

The issue, by and large, is that people just want to "boat max weapons" so they can get big damage numbers so they can get big CB/XP or decent K/D ratio or whatever. So they take a medium that could go 100 KPH (elited) and they max out their weapons for that big 40 Alpha and end up going less then 60KPH ... and consequently rush head long into battle and die immediately after 2 or 3 Alphas ... and then go out and fail and blame PGI for bad game design.

Vs a smart medium pilots that starts with the max engine, and then works backwards with the load out to get the most DPS they can and yet still maintain that advantage of speed.

So the *real* issue with mediums is the people that think mediums are weapon boats that are just a bit smaller then assaults ... instead of realizing they are scouts that are just a bit larger them lights.

NinetyProof speaks the truth (and I just made a rhyme, sweet)! Most people that pilot Mediums are sucky drivers and don't do anything to avoid incoming damage (ie, torso twisting, using terrain, etc). Furthermore, they take their chosen Medium mech, rekit the entire thing to be a lol "brawler" and think that it is completely acceptable to run their mech up against something that is twice as heavy. Play to the mechs intended role and you'll do fine. Try to turn it into something else and you'll fail every time. Try to do the latter while being Rambo and you'll go down in a newby blaze of glory only to come to the forums and make a post as to why Mediums suck.

[Tezcatli]

Medium mechs are the filler mech in an army. You can't just field Assaults. Because it would be too high on the tonnage and it would be incredibly expensive.

However in MWO. Cost and Tonnage are not represented in-game. Cost we can't really see unless they were to add in repair costs that are higher for Assaults, but that would only **** people off, and the hardcore players would just scoff as they put down for premium or play 100 matches anyway.

Tonnage could in theory be done. But if you limit max tonnage. You'll end up with 3 assaults and 1 medium. Because everyone wants to rock a Highlander, Atlas, or Stalker. And it would also make the match finder take longer.

The thing is. A medium doesn't have the firepower. Doesn't have the armor. Has to get an XL to get kinda fast, but not Light fast. So where does this leave what should be the workhorse mechs of Battletech? In the hands of people who just love playing them.

I personally enjoy my Blackjack. I can't go toe to toe with anything greater then a medium. And really I can't handle a light with two AC5s. But I have fun hanging back, popping out, peppering them until they notice me and then slipping away as best I can. And I've found that's generally how to play a medium. Don't be their first target, pour it on with someone heavier, supporting their attacks.

If a medium can get away with a few seconds of sustained fire and not take damage. Then he's done his job. But this isn't everyone's style. And lately all I see are heavies and assaults. With one other medium besides my own.

Edited by Tezcatli, 13 June 2013 - 09:33 AM.

[Monkeystador]

Size is absolutely an issue in this game. There is no denying it with whatever argument you want.

[Purlana]

You have more firepower then a light but are much easier to hit. The role that you should fill is providing firepower on the battle field where needed. You should not try to solo an Atlas or Stalker, instead you strip back armor while they are busy with someone else.

If they turn to face you, find cover until they lose track of you...

A medium is not a scout, nor is it a brawler. The reason mediums are really hard to use at the moment is that everyone and their mother is playing sniper / firesupport.

Edited by Purlana, 13 June 2013 - 10:21 AM.

[Ngamok]

HighlandCoo, on 13 June 2013 - 01:50 AM, said:

Im actually having this problem with Cicadas - not as fast as a light, bigger than a light, but with the same firepower as a jenner.

I tend to get hit alot and then die

Though I'm pretty certain if I can just figure out the balance between speed, firepower and what my ideal engagement range is (when your fast you generally get to choose ;P) then I think it will be "okay"

My CDA-3M goes 142.x KPH and my CDA-2A goes 133.6 KPH. My X-5 does 124.x KPH only because I use 2x LL instead of the 4x ML. Just because they don't do the cap of 150 KPH doesn't mean they aren't fast enough.