233 replies to this topic

[ExtremeA79]

There ARE differences.

Jagerrmech: Direct fire support
Catapult: Indirect fire support
Cataract: Brawler/Front-line support. Doesn't really look like support, more of a brawler. It doesn't replace the other 2 mechs.

Edited by Darren Tyler, 19 June 2013 - 04:59 PM.

[Arctu]

Darren Tyler, on 19 June 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

There ARE differences.

Jagerrmech: Direct fire support
Catapult: Indirect fire support
Cataract: Brawler. Doesn't really look like support, more of a brawler. It doesn't replace the other 2 mechs.

So how do I deal damage with my K2 in an 'indirect' way? And what are those launcher hardpoints on the JM6-A for?

[ExtremeA79]

Arctu, on 19 June 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

So how do I deal damage with my K2 in an 'indirect' way? And what are those launcher hardpoints on the JM6-A for?

Canon wise, K2 was a drastically different mech from other mechs. It is the only variant providing direct fire support.

Jagermech? It's optimized for direct fire support. And if you don't know. battleMech load outs try to be all round due to how long and costly it takes to specialize mechs. This is just to help round the mech. Same thing with cats having medium lasers.

Forgot to add. Other than the K2, the catapult line is indirect.

[Arctu]

I don't think arguments based on the lore are good for balancing issues. In Mechwarrior Online it's best to optimize your mech for a specific range or purpose, in the tabletop you usually had balanced loadouts. Unless this is changed, every mech should be competitive. While it may be recommended to use a Catapult as a LRM boat, we should not be forced to do this just because the Catapult in inferior to other mechs in any other role (while not giving any advantage in that specific role).

By the way: the most success I had with the C1 was when using Large Pulse Lasers and SRM6 - the Stalkers are just so much superior to the Catapults as an LRM boat and in this role mobility is barely an issue. The A1 Variant is also better utilized as Splat- or Streak-Cat since the lack of energy hardpoint makes it harder to defend vs close attackers and prohibts the use of a TAG laser.

Edited by Arctu, 19 June 2013 - 08:03 AM.

[Gaan Cathal]

Darren Tyler, on 19 June 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

Forgot to add. Other than the K2, the catapult line is indirect.

You know what's required to fire LRMs at a target in BTech? LOS. That LOS can be provided by another mech with appropriate EWAR gear, but it ain't free. Oh, and that all-important Artemis IV? Only works for direct fire.

LRMs are indirect-fire capable weapons. Not indirect-fire weapons.

[ExtremeA79]

Gaan Cathal, on 19 June 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

You know what's required to fire LRMs at a target in BTech? LOS. That LOS can be provided by another mech with appropriate EWAR gear, but it ain't free. Oh, and that all-important Artemis IV? Only works for direct fire.

LRMs are indirect-fire capable weapons. Not indirect-fire weapons.

I'm not quite sure you read my post right. Catapults are optimized for fire support. I put a indirect in there as most catapults do not have artemis, have LRMs. and are safest out of LOS. they can most certainly provide direct, but it would be best to provide indirect. I never said LRM's are indirect only. Do you see any catapults with Artemis? A direct fire mech with Artemis would be the TBT mechs.
Indirect fire= damaging a enemy without LOS.

[ExtremeA79]

Arctu, on 19 June 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

I don't think arguments based on the lore are good for balancing issues. In Mechwarrior Online it's best to optimize your mech for a specific range or purpose, in the tabletop you usually had balanced loadouts. Unless this is changed, every mech should be competitive. While it may be recommended to use a Catapult as a LRM boat, we should not be forced to do this just because the Catapult in inferior to other mechs in any other role (while not giving any advantage in that specific role).

By the way: the most success I had with the C1 was when using Large Pulse Lasers and SRM6 - the Stalkers are just so much superior to the Catapults as an LRM boat and in this role mobility is barely an issue. The A1 Variant is also better utilized as Splat- or Streak-Cat since the lack of energy hardpoint makes it harder to defend vs close attackers and prohibts the use of a TAG laser.

I would disagree, personally I prefer a catapult over a stalker and I would say stalkers are inferior. But that is my opinion.

[Volthorne]

Darren Tyler, on 19 June 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

I'm not quite sure you read my post right. Catapults are optimized for fire support. I put a indirect in there as most catapults do not have artemis, have LRMs. and are safest out of LOS. they can most certainly provide direct, but it would be best to provide indirect. I never said LRM's are indirect only. Do you see any catapults with Artemis? A direct fire mech with Artemis would be the TBT mechs.
Indirect fire= damaging a enemy without LOS.

We have to cower out of sight because of the f*cking stupid cockpit hitbox, otherwise we'd be out in the open getting our own locks and not relying on toolbags like you to *maybe* hold a target for a long enough time for our payload to arrive. Indirect-fire was rarely used in TT unless you had C3 for the simple reason of being more likely to miss. I can count on one hand the number of times I got into a direct firefight and got headcapped. What exactly does that say to you?

[ExtremeA79]

Volthorne, on 19 June 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

We have to cower out of sight because of the f*cking stupid cockpit hitbox, otherwise we'd be out in the open getting our own locks and not relying on toolbags like you to *maybe* hold a target for a long enough time for our payload to arrive. Indirect-fire was rarely used in TT unless you had C3 for the simple reason of being more likely to miss. I can count on one hand the number of times I got into a direct firefight and got headcapped. What exactly does that say to you?

You said that you can even face a stalker 1v1, and basically said being able to be headcapped is a annoyance? Now you are you have to cower in fear? With all this contradicting your past posts, I cannot trust whatever you say now.
Everyone has been head capped at least once. 1 can be counted on a hand. So that says nothing especially when you claim you can beat stalkers up close.
If you want a brawling mech, then the catapult is not your mech. Quit whining and buy a cataphract.

BTW, if you have a curse to say, actually type it right instead of putting a astrix there like a child.

[Volthorne]

Darren Tyler, on 19 June 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

You said that you can even face a stalker 1v1, and basically said being able to be headcapped is a annoyance? Now you are you have to cower in fear? With all this contradicting your past posts, I cannot trust whatever you say now.
Everyone has been head capped at least once. 1 can be counted on a hand. So that says nothing especially when you claim you can beat stalkers up close.
If you want a brawling mech, then the catapult is not your mech. Quit whining and buy a cataphract.

BTW, if you have a curse to say, actually type it right instead of putting a astrix there like a child.

Yes, I did say that I can and will 1v1 a Stalker... IF my long-range firepower is gone. Clearly you missed that bit. I built my C1 to be a fire-support 'Mech (notice the lack of INDIRECT?) and I basically can't do my job unless I'm hiding behind a hill or building or big-*** pile of rocks. That is not the case in TT (which is where I get headcapped so infrequently in DIRECT fire-fights. Taking a Catapult into a direct fire-fight in MW:O is suicidal at best) where a good player with a Catapult is a ********* nightmare to face.

If I were you I'd start shutting up very quickly before you embarass yourself even further because you lack logical reading comprehension (he said X after Z but before Y so clearly Y relates to Z, hurr hurr. NOT!) and no arguments except ad naseum "L2P".

Also I'm not sure you're even qualified to be making judgements on character, considering the lack of yours.

Edited by Volthorne, 19 June 2013 - 12:33 PM.

[ExtremeA79]

Volthorne, on 19 June 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Yes, I did say that I can and will 1v1 a Stalker... IF my long-range firepower is gone. Clearly you missed that bit. I built my C1 to be a fire-support 'Mech (notice the lack of INDIRECT?) and I basically can't do my job unless I'm hiding behind a hill or building or big-*** pile of rocks. That is not the case in TT (which is where I get headcapped so infrequently in DIRECT fire-fights. Taking a Catapult into a direct fire-fight in MW:O is suicidal at best) where a good player with a Catapult is a ********* nightmare to face.

If I were you I'd start shutting up very quickly before you embarass yourself even further because you lack logical reading comprehension (he said X after Z but before Y so clearly Y relates to Z, hurr hurr. NOT!) and no arguments except ad naseum "L2P".

Also I'm not sure you're even qualified to be making judgements on character, considering the lack of yours.

Embarrass myself on a forum? If anyone is embarrassing themself it is you.

I already know you said that if your long range cababilities are out, somehow you are better against stalkers.

You are in a catapult with a big head made for fighting stalkers and you can beat them? And then you say fighting in a direct fireight is suicide for even good players? First off this totally contradicts what you said earlier about brawling with stalkers. 2nd, if a regular lrm boating catapult gets stuck in a direct fire fight, especially brawling, of course it is suicide and that is the fault of the pilot.


If you are just trying to **** me off why don't you do this thread a favor and leave? Make your hate thread about me if it makes you feel better.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

Twisted Power, on 19 June 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

Who plays catapults anyways. With the current matchmaker there is a better mech for every build you can do on any of those catapults. There is even a stalker with that can boat 5 streak srm 2's and you can still fit 4 LL's on it.

dual gauss Catapult is still the best dual gauss. Jagermech comes in second because while it has good vertical placement and is good for ridging, the horizontal placement is not as good for long range shots, not to mention the placement on the arms means you cannot strip them to shift weight other places.

However for dual ac/20, i'd say jagermech is better, because at close ranges it's easier to corner shoot as well as ridge without exposing much mech.

as far as cataphract goes? just get an atlas instead, it does everything a cata can but better. Unless of course you like pop tarting, then go with a quickdraw or highlander, they do it better.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 19 June 2013 - 01:38 PM.

[Volthorne]

Darren Tyler, on 19 June 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Embarrass myself on a forum? If anyone is embarrassing themself it is you.

Nice grammar/spelling. If your arguments were half as good as this, you might actually SOUND smart.

Quote

I already know you said that if your long range cababilities are out, somehow you are better against stalkers.

You are in a catapult with a big head made for fighting stalkers and you can beat them? And then you say fighting in a direct fireight is suicide for even good players? First off this totally contradicts what you said earlier about brawling with stalkers. 2nd, if a regular lrm boating catapult gets stuck in a direct fire fight, especially brawling, of course it is suicide and that is the fault of the pilot.

I'm not even sure how to respond to this because it looks like you pulled bits from 5 different posts and responded to them as if they were one. Would you like to try that again, but in English?

Quote

If you are just trying to **** me off why don't you do this thread a favor and leave? Make your hate thread about me if it makes you feel better.

If I'm making you mad, why don't you leave? That would be an even bigger favour to the thread than me leaving.

[ExtremeA79]

Volthorne, on 19 June 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

Nice grammar/spelling. If your arguments were half as good as this, you might actually SOUND smart.


I'm not even sure how to respond to this because it looks like you pulled bits from 5 different posts and responded to them as if they were one. Would you like to try that again, but in English?


If I'm making you mad, why don't you leave? That would be an even bigger favour to the thread than me leaving.

First off, you are making a big deal off a 1 letter typo in a sentence I made?
That is just ridiculous and it really just shows how immature you are.

Second, you fail if you cannot understand that bit.

Third, I said you are trying to, which is stupid considering this isn't the "Try to make someone angry thread!" It's the catapult head size thread. Obviously you are getting desperate to try to, and my first point shows it. Most of your posts do not contribute and try to attack me. Leaving will do this thread a favor so this thread can get back on the road.
Again, make your "I hate Darren Tyler" thread if you want, but don't derail this thread and make it yours.

Edited by Darren Tyler, 19 June 2013 - 02:42 PM.

[Volthorne]

Darren Tyler, on 19 June 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

First off, you are making a big deal off a 1 letter typo in a sentence I made?
That is just ridiculous and it really just shows how immature you are.

There's more than just that one letter, however, you'd need to have a basic concept of grammar to notice it.

Quote

Second, you fail if you cannot understand that bit.

Then I guess you fail at explaining because that is one big mess and I'm not sure I even want to try unraveling the meaning behind it. I'm not sure you're fully understanding what I say, so maybe I should go r e a l l y s l o w l y.

Or,

perhaps

one

word

at

a

time?

Quote

Most of your posts do not contribute and try to attack me. Leaving will do this thread a favor so this thread can get back on the road. Again, make your "I hate Darren Tyler" thread if you want, but don't derail this thread and make it yours.

All of your posts have read "L2P nub" with little or no variation if they are not outright hostile.

Also, it would be impossible for me to derail the thread and "make it mine" because you have already done so.

[Zakie Chan]

[ExtremeA79]

Volthorne, on 19 June 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

There's more than just that one letter, however, you'd need to have a basic concept of grammar to notice it.


Then I guess you fail at explaining because that is one big mess and I'm not sure I even want to try unraveling the meaning behind it. I'm not sure you're fully understanding what I say, so maybe I should go r e a l l y s l o w l y.

Or,

perhaps

one

word

at

a

time?


All of your posts have read "L2P nub" with little or no variation if they are not outright hostile.

Also, it would be impossible for me to derail the thread and "make it mine" because you have already done so.

My posts hostile? Have you taken a look at ANY of your posts? You sir, are blind. Your posts have little to no variation at all either. All of your posts have something that attacks me. If someone sticks to their side how would they have variation?

Are you hearing yourself? You are making a big ******* deal out of something so simple, a mistake anyone can make, you are not perfect, and neither am I. If you are going to pick on some based on their typos you can laugh yourself out of this forum.

This is just ridiculous, I am arguing with a 6 year old who cannot 'see the dirt on himself' and believes I am derailing the thread, when all he wants to do is insult me.

Edited by Darren Tyler, 19 June 2013 - 03:01 PM.

[Weaselball]

[Volthorne]

Darren Tyler, on 19 June 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

believes I am derailing the thread, when all he wants to do is insult me.

Evidence of you derailing the thread: pages 1 - 6. If you want me to stop making fun of you, maybe you should stop giving me ammo?

Just for good measure: u mad, bro?

[ExtremeA79]

Volthorne, on 19 June 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

Evidence of you derailing the thread: pages 1 - 6. If you want me to stop making fun of you, maybe you should stop giving me ammo?

Before you started with the childish insults which derailed this thread, we were at least having a discussion about head size of a catapult.

Volthorne, on 19 June 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

Just for good measure: u mad, bro?

Your post just shows how immature you are. You are really getting desperate and straying far from the topic of this thread.