659 replies to this topic

[JDH4mm3r]

Just need someone remind me when to turn on the countdown clock for doomsday... that is how much time left...

[Scarcer]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 17 June 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

Wasn't it something like 150 people out of 3000 votes you wanted 3PV?

So congratulations Scarcer, you have a few like-minded individuals.

Unfortunately I can't say what you all have in common, for fear that a certain volunteer mod with special rainbow PGI sunglasses will moderate me.

I never voted, so your numbers are off. Congratulations. People tend to ignore things unless they are passionately enraged because they read someone's rage post giving them a first impression.

Kinda like all of those terrible terrible court cases and crimes on national media.

This is a democracy d*****t, majority or minority. I'm not afraid of a couple thousand goons in the street claiming to be the 99 Percent. I'll gladly accept my freedom of choice whether you try to mob it away from me or not.

Oh wow, that's a good correlation now that I think about it. Taking the Seattle anarchists for example; they are loons who take legitimate issues like it's in fassion, rally up, protest then start throwing rocks at police standing there to entice trouble. Then when they open their mouths about the issues; they understand jack squat and it's an embarrassment to the cause.

You also know what you have in common? The impatience to read through previous pages so you know what's already been said, discussed and mutually agreed upon. Better arguments than yours regarding 3PV have been acknowledged, but they still only amount to hypothesis; and that can't be hidden. In reality no one can prove anything.

Edited by Scarcer, 17 June 2013 - 03:41 PM.

[NeoFighter]

ok well that still makes 151 to 3000.

You lose

[Sug]

hammerreborn, on 17 June 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

Except for the part where the bolded portion never happened.

But don't let facts get in the way of a good QQ.

Yeah my bad. I'm not sure where I got that idea.

[Victor Morson]

Scarcer, on 17 June 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

I do want it; but you guys are too busy going:

"Lalalalalalalalala Every One Agrees with me Lalalalalala"

When the polls all show ratios like 5-160 or worse, which means people are 32 times more likely to hate this, I think you have to start accepting what you want is not what everyone else does.

hammerreborn, on 17 June 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

Except for the part where the bolded portion never happened.

But don't let facts get in the way of a good QQ.

Sug just schooled you.

Edited by Victor Morson, 17 June 2013 - 03:40 PM.

[BlackBeltJones]

hammerreborn, on 17 June 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

If you aren't going to believe anything they say then why ask for anything that you're just going to shrug off and say "can't trust this, its all wrong".

I mean honestly. If you're going to go with "PGI lied, MWO died" all the time, why bother asking the devs for ANYTHING, since you're just going to take whatever they say, proclaim it as a lie, and continue doomsaying for no reason other than to start **** on the forums.

I never said that. I asked for more details and details from you do not equal details from PGI. I never claim all that PGI says is lies - I have never said that. What I have maintained is that we have no reasonable right to expect performance to be different than previous performance. That is fool me once...etc...
Like I said before I think your effort is great, you are trying to something good but all your effort will not remedy the silence undertaken by the devs. Also, as I pointed out before, in the absence of PGI information we only have speculation - certainly some go to far with the doom and gloom speculation but simply being optimistic does not make your assessment less speculative. Either way I am not trying to argue with you, if you're offended that I have concerns and questions or you dislike those questions then that is your responsibility. I am not attacking anything thus you need not defend anything - otherwise keep doing good and maybe I'll see you on the battlefield.

[Victor Morson]

Scarcer, on 17 June 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

Oh wow, that's a good correlation now that I think about it. Taking the Seattle anarchists for example; they are loons who take legitimate issues like it's in fassion, rally up, protest then start throwing rocks at police standing there to entice trouble. Then when they open their mouths about the issues; they understand jack squat and it's an embarrassment to the cause.

Yes, because clearly polling a focus audience repeatedly resulting in a consistent 95%+ disapproval rating of something puts everyone in the majority on par with anarchists.

Just stop. You're not doing your cause any favors with this stuff.

Edited by Victor Morson, 17 June 2013 - 03:44 PM.

[Scarcer]

Sug, on 17 June 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Yeah my bad. I'm not sure where I got that idea.

I admit entirely that it's bad he lied; or much less said that in the first place, just to have the opposite happen.

What's worse are the people who can't accept change. To meet in the middle atleast there will be 100% 1PV mode.

Arguing about COD kids in 3PV is like telling the kids across the street to get off the lawn. Dang grumpy old man.

[Scarcer]

Victor Morson, on 17 June 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

Yes, because clearly polling a focus audience repeatedly resulting in a consistent 95%+ disapproval rating of something puts everyone in the majority on par with anarchists.

Just stop. You're not doing your cause any favors with this stuff.

Dude or dudet. More intellegent arguments have been made against 3PV, even the people who worked to put graphs together and keep track of information admit it may not be accurate.

Stop pretending it's the entire community participating, and only the same community that will ever play this game.

I consider all points of view and all possibilities; but you act like you have Peripheral Vision Loss

No respect as long as you act like it's the prophesy of a lifetime.

[Jakob Knight]

Prosperity Park, on 17 June 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

I would greatly appreciate it if people would stop saying that PGI wants this game to become 3PV-only, as that is a completely ridiculous statement, and it's only thrown out there because some people want to say the "strongest" things possible in order to make themselves sound more serious/intense.

Seriously, do you think they are designing custom cockpits for every single Mech and relegating the player-driven portion of the main campaign to 1PV-only just so they can be thrown away and convert the entire game to 3PV-only? Do you really think that is their goal, or are you merely saying that in order to express your displeasure with the game's Development Cycle? Yeah... not a single person here actually thinks they are gonna merge the queues, you're just saying that because you want to say something insulting.

Please, just stop saying that; it detracts from the quality of postings when such statements are made.

I know you would like people to stop saying that, as it would make it a lot easier to ignore, but the fact is that this is a progression that is linear and has been simply confirmed by the latest Answers.

To sum up, PGI now considers 3PV the 'Normal' mode of the game, the mode most players will be playing in MWO, and a mode all players must play if they want a complete game experience. Further, the mode of play that was supposed to be the overriding and defining way to play MWO is now called 'Hardcore' and is seen as a minority playmode restricted to only the most diehard players.

This after the Devs stated that 3PV was something that would not happen 'out of the gate', that 1PV would always remain one of the pillars upon which MWO would be designed upon and the overriding mode of play in the game.

To say that the 'Normal' playmode of a game is not intended to be the normal playmode of a game seems illogical, especially since we can conclude that this naming was not simply a wording of one person but the agreed terms used by the entire Dev team in their design discussions and engineering. If anything, the ridiculous thing to say would be that the 'Normal' mode of the game is not meant to become the normal mode of play, and that the 'Hardcore' mode of the game is not meant to be an offshoot minority way to play the game.

As for jettisoning the work done on 1PV, they have done exactly this before. What about all the work that went into the Repair and Reload system? What about the work that went into the initial visual modes? What about the work that went into Pilot Trees? All of these have been jettisoned since the initial opening of the game to playtest when the corporate focus changed or the desire to introduce new play into the game occurred, and this is no different. They will throw away whatever they feel does not support their current view of the game.

I don't say these things to be insulting, but because they are true and have been proven by the Dev's own actions.

Lastly, to answer those who blame 1PV for the decline in playerbase, I would note this game has -always- been 1PV, so people would not be leaving a game for that when they wouldn't have been here to begin with if that were an issue. Rather, the Devs have failed to produce a -reason- for them to continue fighting after the battles string out and start becoming the same thing over and over without point. It is CW that this game needs in order to stem and reverse the bleeding of players, to give people a reason to go back to the battlefield again and again.

My two cents.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 17 June 2013 - 07:52 PM.

[Scarcer]

Victor Morson, on 17 June 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

Yes, because clearly polling a focus audience repeatedly resulting in a consistent 95%+ disapproval rating of something puts everyone in the majority on par with anarchists.

Just stop. You're not doing your cause any favors with this stuff.

Actually also on contrary.

All of those internet polls? Reddit: "Everyone click here! Vote lets beat the the theists and show them evolution is where it's at!"
Random example, but the outcome is the same, it proves nothing.

I'm sure most of you will still be playing a year from now.

Edited by Scarcer, 17 June 2013 - 03:52 PM.

[Bendak]

Bryan Ekman, on 14 June 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

...
3PV
Viper69 : If we are going to be able to choose to play against people using 3PV or not to, how are you going to address the then fractured and smaller groups that then have to wait in queue for a match that meets their perimeters?
A: There will be two modes Normal and Hardcore (FPV) only. We anticipate most players will play the first mode leaving the hardcore mode for the those wanting a challenge. 3PV will be going onto test servers in the next 60 days and we’ll see how it goes from there.
...

Need a dislike button! I don't think I'll play/pay any more. Have you ever played a multiplayer game with the option of third person view? Can I get a refund for my legendary if '3PV' comes in?

[Scarcer]

Bendak, on 17 June 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Need a dislike button! I don't think I'll play/pay any more. Have you ever played a multiplayer game with the option of third person view? Can I get a refund for my legendary if '3PV' comes in?

League of legends is forced third person view.
If third person view HAD to be an option I think I'd play one day less a week (and I rarely do.)

My post is just as important as yours.

[hammerreborn]

Victor Morson, on 17 June 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

Sug just schooled you.

Except where the first is a picture of the current game description, which is a first person game. It would be lying to anyone looking to play the game and say its a third person game and then not have it.

The second....

READ THE LAST TWO ******* SENTENCES

You and every person that posts a pic of that link only own yourselves.

Edited by hammerreborn, 17 June 2013 - 04:52 PM.

[Grimmnyr]

To be fair, nowhere did PGI say that Normal mode would be 3PVa only. They implied that you would be able to use 3PV in Normal mode. Hardcore mode is going to be first person only though. I am fine with this setup, because I will only be playing against worthy opponents in Hardcore, and not some person who can't comprehend how to pilot their mech, or people who want to spend the whole game taking screenshots of their mech.

[Victor Morson]

Scarcer, on 17 June 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

I consider all points of view and all possibilities; but you act like you have Peripheral Vision Loss

If a stranger wanted to punch you in the face, and asked really nicely, would you let him so you could better analyze "all points of view?"

I have enough information about this system (and the terrible alpha nerf) to draw informed conclusions about both of them, just like I have enough information to know a broken nose sucks.

Of course, if you don't believe things until they've been inflicted on you...

Ed Steele, on 17 June 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

To be fair, nowhere did PGI say that Normal mode would be 3PVa only. They implied that you would be able to use 3PV in Normal mode. Hardcore mode is going to be first person only though. I am fine with this setup, because I will only be playing against worthy opponents in Hardcore, and not some person who can't comprehend how to pilot their mech, or people who want to spend the whole game taking screenshots of their mech.

My biggest problem is splitting the community que even more. It's not worth fracturing the whole game over a camera angle.

EDIT: ... I am sorry if I'm coming off as bitter with PGI here again. I'm not, but more frustrated. If PGI were a person and not a company, I wouldn't want to fight with it or stop talking to it, I'd want to give it an intervention from all the people who care about it and want it to stop being so damned self-destructive.

Edited by Victor Morson, 17 June 2013 - 04:14 PM.

[BlackBeltJones]

I wonder why they chose 'normal' when it has never been publicly implemented. How can it be the new normal when we literally have zero public feedback on it? And would it have been so hard for the Devs to include a 1 minute video featuring their internal 3PV testing?

Edited by BlackBeltJones, 17 June 2013 - 04:23 PM.

[Scarcer]

Victor Morson, on 17 June 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

If a stranger wanted to punch you in the face, and asked really nicely, would you let him so you could better analyze "all points of view?"

I have enough information about this system (and the terrible alpha nerf) to draw informed conclusions about both of them, just like I have enough information to know a broken nose sucks.

Of course, if you don't believe things until they've been inflicted on you...

I'm a connoisseur of analogies, but yours sucks. Unless you're objective was to offend me then keep trying, you might hit a funny bone and damn don't we all know that hurts.

I've thoroughly broken my shoulder twice and my right arm in two places through and through if that legitimizes myself for your concern.

But no really; I wouldn't be that hurt if PGI screws it up; Since you're too lazy to read previous pages I'll say it again because your special: I'm to wait and find out.

OooOH, is that an invitation to join your church? Does it require faith without actual evidence? Might hypothetical god strike me now; for otherwise you can't exist!

Edited by Scarcer, 17 June 2013 - 04:46 PM.

[Sug]

hammerreborn, on 17 June 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

Except where the first is a picture of the current game description, which is a first person game. It would be lying to anyone looking to play the game and say its a third person game and then not have it.

The second....

READ THE LAST TWO ******* SENTENCES

You and every ***** that posts a pic of that link only own yourselves.

Ok I'll admit that no one ever came out and said the sentence "We swear that we will never ever put 3rd person into the game. Ever". They always left that unspoken 'maybe' in whenever they answered our questions.

I'm not even against 3PV for aesthetic reasons or because MWO is "a simulation", it doesn't break the 4th wall for me to see the back of my mech, i'm well aware that i'm sitting at a desk in my room and not inside a battlemech.

I just think it's a bad choice because

1. It will split the community initially. And if one player base isn't thriving they will merge them back together with mixed view matches.

2. Part of their business model is the sale of vanity cockpit items. So now they're offering 3PV to bring in more players, to make more income, off of players that will never use their cockpit...


They better come up with some camos that look amazing from behind.

[hammerreborn]

Sug, on 17 June 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Ok I'll admit that no one ever came out and said the sentence "We swear that we will never ever put 3rd person into the game. Ever". They always left that unspoken 'maybe' in whenever they answered our questions.

I'm not even against 3PV for aesthetic reasons or because MWO is "a simulation", it doesn't break the 4th wall for me to see the back of my mech, i'm well aware that i'm sitting at a desk in my room and not inside a battlemech.

I just think it's a bad choice because

1. It will split the community initially. And if one player base isn't thriving they will merge them back together with mixed view matches.

2. Part of their business model is the sale of vanity cockpit items. So now they're offering 3PV to bring in more players, to make more income, off of players that will never use their cockpit...


They better come up with some camos that look amazing from behind.

I don't know. Hero mechs are the cash cow most likely. I think that 3rd person only players will focus on paints (which are far more money than cockpit items) and the first person will focus on the cockpit. You might split the player base, but it's a gamble I'm willing to see through. If they can increase the playerbase by enough it'll offset the cost of the split.

Only time will tell