252 replies to this topic

[Draxern]

ErrorlessErik, on 08 June 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

A mod everyone has access to and does not change any of the actual gameplay or balance...

I have no idea about WOT mods or such if its availible to the community so be it. My point which off topic to the ops is that third party programs can often unbalance games.

Looking back at UO ( old school) if did not run third party software you where pretty much toast as the game internal design did not support logical options.

But the issue created by this was players who attempted to get into pvp and who where not aware of such third party programs where pretty much at a huge disadvantage.


Third party programs can be an extremely slippery slope what might be considered legal and harmless and whats game breaking.

Back to the OPs post i think Mechwarrior online will have two meta games. One for the House global politics and one for mercs. I have no issues with mercs gaining planets on the outer systems and even building up personal compounds , training complexs etc.

Issue would be if merc companies became bigger than the houses as that would create the situation where mechwarrior online would become a completely different game and lose it character. Who wants to see the clans turnup and get their butts destoryed in first 2 mins by a merc company which has wiped out half the galaxy.

The whole concept of merc benefits and house benefits need to be balanced. And they need to create a system where both markets can co-exist without one dominating the other.

[SovietKoshka]

HEAR HEAR!!

[wargames]

Draxern, on 08 June 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

Looking back at UO ( old school) if did not run third party software you where pretty much toast as the game internal design did not support logical options.

Issue would be if merc companies became bigger than the houses as that would create the situation where mechwarrior online would become a completely different game and lose it character. Who wants to see the clans turnup and get their butts destoryed in first 2 mins by a merc company which has wiped out half the galaxy.

The whole concept of merc benefits and house benefits need to be balanced. And they need to create a system where both markets can co-exist without one dominating the other.

UO came out in a time before third party software was even a thing so that really isn't a valid point.

But didn't Kurita attack Wolf's Dragoon because they were thought to be too much of a threat to them? I mean PMC getting too big should be a worry to the house units and shouldn't be hamstrung because it doesn't fit your vision of battletech.

Edited by wargames, 08 June 2012 - 09:09 PM.

[Helmer]

Wonderful post.

Give an infinite number of Helmers an infinite number of typewriters and an infinite amount of time, and I still could not create a post as well written and thought out as this.

Kudos.


Cheers.

Wonderful post.

Give an infinite number of Helmers an infinite number of typewriters and an infinite amount of time, and I still could not create a post as well written and thought out as this.

Kudos.


Cheers.

[Silent]

If Piranha takes the suggestions laid out in the OP to heart they will be swimming in money and also have a healthy community for years to come. I can only hope these sorts of things are fleshed out as the game is developed further.

Edited by Silent, 08 June 2012 - 09:17 PM.

[Stunt Monkey]

Zynk, on 08 June 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

I disagree with this statement.

Please do not let goons dictate policy and rules for your game.

Not sure if... [fry.jpg]

[PANZERBUNNY]

wargames, on 08 June 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

UO came out in a time before third party software was even a thing so that really isn't a valid point.

But didn't Kurita attack Wolf's Dragoon because they were thought to be too much of a threat to them? I mean PMC getting too big should be a worry to the house units and shouldn't be hamstrung because it doesn't fit your vision of battletech.

Merc companies carving out their own little empires is beyond the scope of this game.

From what we've been told, Merc companies don't have full reign over planetary targets and work for a specific House.

[Shootanoob]

Apart from liking or not liking Goons, Eve or WoT, I'll take the liberty to drop in some of my thoughts:

For to win in a PvP-game, it's always required for somebody else to loose. Loosing is mostly not connected to be the most funny experience you can have, so by design a game should prevent players from getting to big an advantage over other players to be economically successful in the long run. On avarage, you will loose every second match and if you really, really good, you might be able to push that balance a little more in the direction of 2:1, but that's it. So, to stay long-term interesting, winning can not get you that big rewards in terms of ingame-advantages.

A Mech-based simulation / action game should also derive its power to reward or punish me from my battlefield skills as a pilot, not from me being a good or bad politican or intelligence operative. Even if meta-gaming can be fun (and in some cases even can make up for lacking ingame features), it is not necessary to be good in the game itself to be a good meta-gamer - which should not be misinterpreted as "meta-gamers lack ingame skill".

On the other hand, it would be hard to imagine an ingame-universe which will not be influenced by the players somehow, but there should be limits and mechanisms put in place to let it not go out of hands. After all, that's Battletech here, and with that brand there come certain expectations. If you like open sandbox, play EVE, else accept that there (hopefully) will be some limitations to the influence of players on the further developement of this universe.

I guess, the part that really matters and makes or breaks the main part of the non-battlefield action in MWO has to be strongly linked to the
house factions. Under no circumstances the Merc Unit "BadBoysfromBananaBar" (no offense meant, invented that name just this very minute I hope, replace by any other name you find approriate) should be able to control anything more than maybe the 1 to 2 planets which it was tasked to guard by its employer (which would have to be one of the house factions).

Last, I'd like to state that every feature in the game should be playable and enjoyable by everyone - regardless of the time one is willing to invest in that game. Sure, If I'm a 3-4 hours a day player, I will acheive things in shorter time or can do significantly more of all that stuff, but even if my time allows me only to drop in for 2-3 hours on saturday nights, there still should nothing be completely out of reach.

[wargames]

PANZERBUNNY, on 08 June 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

Merc companies carving out their own little empires is beyond the scope of this game.

What dev blog is this in? Also didn't it work out for the Northwind Highlanders?

[Woodstock]

One thing I think EvE did better than WoT is the inclusion.

In EvE you can jump into an interceptor and 'contribute' Sure you don't have massive skills ... but you are useful. With WoT you need to have ground your way to a 'top' tier tank. As a casual gamer I have never got past Tier 7/8 (I have been playing since the beginning of open Beta). This meant that I never really felt included in Clanwars.

My hope for MWO is that with its role warfare and the fact that weapons effect everyone (And please please please a BV based matchmaking system and uneven player sides) You won't have the same thing happening where you need the equivalent of a T-54 or IS-7 to take part.

While on the topic of community warfare ... I also hope that the game will support the formation of small merc corps like Carlyle's commandos (4 mechs) as this would allow smaller groups of players to get involved. Sure they are never going to bid for the 'big' contracts but as the OP said ... there should be smaller worlds for the amateurs. Somewhere for them to hone their skills while they grow. Just like the grey death legion did.

[Serevn]

The Mittani, on 08 June 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

If you disagree with this post, you are wrong.

And yes, Goons are in MWO just as in every other game that exists. In MWO, we will initially be Liao-aligned.

Woah Woah Woah I have to put up with the goons in MY Capellan Confederation? That can be a good or bad thing depending... I thought Federated Suns would be more their kind of dish.

Edited by Serevn, 08 June 2012 - 09:44 PM.

[FullMetalBoxers]

PANZERBUNNY, on 08 June 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

How about not spying because it's lame?

MY E-HONOUR.

Numlock1776, on 08 June 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

Eve Goons are considered filth even by other goons. Also you have nothing to worry about as any Eve Goon lead clan will self destruct in a matter of weeks due to internal drama.

This has been proven not to be true over and over and over again, but feel free to keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. I hear that if you tell Goons they are bad people enough times, they will go away. Failing that, allow me to refer you back to the following:

PringlesPCant, on 08 June 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

If you have anything beyond ad hominem attacks please feel free to post them in here, it is after all a discussion thread.

Like I said earlier, all that these posts accomplish is to further reinforce the arguments made in the OP. By all means, please continue.

[wargames]

Serevn, on 08 June 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

Woah Woah Woah I have to put up with the goons in MY Capellan Confederation? I though Federated Suns would be more their kind of dish. That can be a good or bad thing depending...

We are a bunch of socialist so the idea of free healthcare and education appeals to us.

[SpiralRazor]

+1

[Shootanoob]

wargames, on 08 June 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

What dev blog is this in? Also didn't it work out for the Northwind Highlanders?

Northwind Highlanders are a part of BT lore. For any Northwind Highlander, Wolf Dragoon or Kell Hound pilot, there is a score of Merc Companies who did not outlive their first battlefield encounter. With dead / destruction ingame being non-permanent, you would have the balance of the mayor houses shred to pieces within the hour after release.

I personally like to fight for the FedSuns against those Dracs and Capellans, but I'd really dislike to constanly face said BadBoysfromBananaBar or other little empires instead.

[Serevn]

wargames, on 08 June 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

We are a bunch of socialist so the idea of free healthcare and education appeals to us.

You still must earn your citizenship, freebies only go so far.

[FullMetalBoxers]

Woodstock, on 08 June 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

One thing I think EvE did better than WoT is the inclusion.

In EvE you can jump into an interceptor and 'contribute' Sure you don't have massive skills ... but you are useful. With WoT you need to have ground your way to a 'top' tier tank. As a casual gamer I have never got past Tier 7/8 (I have been playing since the beginning of open Beta). This meant that I never really felt included in Clanwars.

My hope for MWO is that with its role warfare and the fact that weapons effect everyone (And please please please a BV based matchmaking system and uneven player sides) You won't have the same thing happening where you need the equivalent of a T-54 or IS-7 to take part.

While on the topic of community warfare ... I also hope that the game will support the formation of small merc corps like Carlyle's commandos (4 mechs) as this would allow smaller groups of players to get involved. Sure they are never going to bid for the 'big' contracts but as the OP said ... there should be smaller worlds for the amateurs. Somewhere for them to hone their skills while they grow. Just like the grey death legion did.

100% agreed. In fact, what you mention ended up being the reason I stopped having fun and lost interest in WoT after Tier V. I got tired of being one-shotted by heavy tanks that were still almost as fast as my light. I really, really like that giving scouts the ability to have an impact even against 100-ton Assault 'Mechs is one of Piranha's design goals.

Add lasting "Community Warfare" types of goals, and that feeling of inclusion for even new players takes on real meaning. That was seriously one of the few things EVE got really right, and I'm pretty sure that's the point the OP was trying to make (or at least close to it).

[Arzachel]

I like the argument of disliking things for being "cheap". Leg shots are cheap, headshots are cheap, lasers are cheap and LRMs are cheap, artillery is cheap and tactics are cheap. Everything is cheap because it means you don't have to acknowledge your failings.

[wargames]

Serevn, on 08 June 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

You still must earn your citizenship, freebies only go so far.

I can't help it. But I am doing my part.

Edited by wargames, 08 June 2012 - 09:48 PM.

[Woodstock]

BigPuma, on 08 June 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

Under no circumstances the Merc Unit "x" should be able to control anything more than maybe the 1 to 2 planets which it was tasked to guard by its employer (which would have to be one of the house factions).

I would amend this ... I think the number of worlds a Merc corp should be able to bid on should depend on:.

The size of the contract and the number of members they have.

There will be worlds that only require a lance of mechs. Others that require a battalion. If your corp has 2 battalions then you should be able to bid for 2 of the battalion sized worlds (108 mechs) ... or spread yourself thinner over 18 smaller company sized worlds (12 mechs)

The comment the OP made about limiting the size of companies ... I cna see why WoT did it ... they wanted to prevent one corp from growing to the size of overwhelming tactical advantage. But the method they used didn't work ... it just split the corp into many unsatisfying facets. Joined only by name. MWO if it wants to limit 'power blocks' will have to find a better solution.