98 replies to this topic

[Tolkien]

DaZur, on 21 June 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

IMHO... it's more the fear of being lambasted by their teammates for not "contributing" to to the fight and instead flitting around the map doing sub-100 damage.

There is a huge contingency of players who ostensibly refuse to remove the CoD goggles and see beyond the linear "DO MOAR DAMAGE" and cannot appreciate that sometimes a "good scout" might do little or no damage at all.

This is unfortunately true but it backed up by a contingency of rewards systems that aren't rewarding much beyond the linear do moar damage.

I think someone else in this thread pointed out that a capture win is often worth as little in terms of cbills if not XP to the person doing the capture as a loss.

[hammerreborn]

Tolkien, on 21 June 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

This is unfortunately true but it backed up by a contingency of rewards systems that aren't rewarding much beyond the linear do moar damage.

I think someone else in this thread pointed out that a capture win is often worth as little in terms of cbills if not XP to the person doing the capture as a loss.

There is no cbill bonus for a capture win, so you just get the flat 25k reward, which is what you get if you win OR lose.

The only difference is you get a relatively worthless 50xp afaik from capturing the base.

Edited by hammerreborn, 21 June 2013 - 12:29 PM.

[Mercules]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 21 June 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

Once people start to figure out the awesomeness that is the UAV.

Yeah, it's awesome. It's awesome that I pay for it to help teammates who don't bother to use it and it doesn't give me any sort of XP or C-bill reward at the end. At best it gives me Bonus C-Bills because my team might not have blundered into the full 8 foes over that ridge and we win instead of lose, but then the other 7 guys on me team who didn't spend anything on it get that reward as well plus their other rewards.


You do NOT reward someone for being a "Scout". Before you mention Spotting rewards, you realize the brawler 200m from the guy we have LoS to gets "Spotter" credit when someone launches LRMs at the guy they are shooting and because they are closer they tend to get the rewards more often than "Scouts" do since it picks the closest mech targeting to grant the reward to.

[hammerreborn]

Mercules, on 21 June 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

Yeah, it's awesome. It's awesome that I pay for it to help teammates who don't bother to use it and it doesn't give me any sort of XP or C-bill reward at the end. At best it gives me Bonus C-Bills because my team might not have blundered into the full 8 foes over that ridge and we win instead of lose, but then the other 7 guys on me team who didn't spend anything on it get that reward as well plus their other rewards.


You do NOT reward someone for being a "Scout". Before you mention Spotting rewards, you realize the brawler 200m from the guy we have LoS to gets "Spotter" credit when someone launches LRMs at the guy they are shooting and because they are closer they tend to get the rewards more often than "Scouts" do since it picks the closest mech targeting to grant the reward to.

Not to mention if it gets shot down it actually rewards xp to the other team.

Though you can earn a bit of xp from using UAV as you just target the mechs with LRMs incoming and you'll generally get spotting bonuses for everyone, but its still only xp rewards rather than some way to make back the c-bills you just spent.

[Jman5]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 21 June 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

Once people start to figure out the awesomeness that is the UAV.

Shhhhh! Don't tell them!

Mercules, on 21 June 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

You do NOT reward someone for being a "Scout". Before you mention Spotting rewards, you realize the brawler 200m from the guy we have LoS to gets "Spotter" credit when someone launches LRMs at the guy they are shooting and because they are closer they tend to get the rewards more often than "Scouts" do since it picks the closest mech targeting to grant the reward to.

I think part of the problem is what sort of tasks would you add to reward scouting?

The only thing I can think of that is quantifiable would be the first person to target an enemy fully (enough time for the paperdoll to show up) gets a small bonus. So if you're the first person to target that enemy jenner at the start of the match, you get a little exp or cbill bonus. By forcing the scout to wait until the paperdoll shows up it prevents the player from just spamming R through an enemy force.

Targeting an enemy for your team is an important role for scouting and information relay because it pops the red triangle up on everyone's map.

With regards to spot assist, it has been mentioned in the suggestion forum that UAVs should grant spot assist bonuses to the player who pops them. That seems like a solid way to grant some sort of monetary reward for being a good teamplayer.

Beyond that though, I can't really think of any other things that you could do to reward scouting. A lot of what scouting does is hard to quantify.

Edited by Jman5, 21 June 2013 - 01:03 PM.

[Mercules]

hammerreborn, on 21 June 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

Not to mention if it gets shot down it actually rewards xp to the other team.

Though you can earn a bit of xp from using UAV as you just target the mechs with LRMs incoming and you'll generally get spotting bonuses for everyone, but its still only xp rewards rather than some way to make back the c-bills you just spent.

Yes, except typically after dropping the UAV in range of all those enemy mechs I am hightailing it for cover and NOT targeting them. The Range on it is 240m, to catch all the enemy under that umbrella I tend to have to get a bit close and so need to be scooting along afterward. So I don't even tend to get THAT. Technically I now tend to do my scouting at 900m with an ERPPC and Sensor Range module. Preferable on the opposite side of the enemy from my teammates.

[DaZur]

Tolkien, on 21 June 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

This is unfortunately true but it backed up by a contingency of rewards systems that aren't rewarding much beyond the linear do moar damage.

I think someone else in this thread pointed out that a capture win is often worth as little in terms of cbills if not XP to the person doing the capture as a loss.

Sad but true... And without a doubt, there needs to be a greater emphasis on scouting rewards if they want people to actually use them in the roll they are intended.

hammerreborn, on 21 June 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

There is no cbill bonus for a capture win, so you just get the flat 25k reward, which is what you get if you win OR lose.
The only difference is you get a relatively worthless 50xp afaik from capturing the base.

Sadly, such is the present meta... hopefully CW changes this.

Edited by DaZur, 21 June 2013 - 01:00 PM.

[Corbon Zackery]

DaZur, on 21 June 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

IMHO... it's more the fear of being lambasted by their teammates for not "contributing" to to the fight and instead flitting around the map doing sub-100 damage.

There is a huge contingency of players who ostensibly refuse to remove the CoD goggles and see beyond the linear "DO MOAR DAMAGE" and cannot appreciate that sometimes a "good scout" might do little or no damage at all.

The game doesn't keep track of assists if I've got 156dmg, and 7 assists I've done my job as a light mech pilot. Its not about killing with lights its about making you combat ineffective little dmg. here a broken leg joint there the battle would be over before you get there since your legs dmg you cant run away.

[hammerreborn]

Mercules, on 21 June 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

Yes, except typically after dropping the UAV in range of all those enemy mechs I am hightailing it for cover and NOT targeting them. The Range on it is 240m, to catch all the enemy under that umbrella I tend to have to get a bit close and so need to be scooting along afterward. So I don't even tend to get THAT. Technically I now tend to do my scouting at 900m with an ERPPC and Sensor Range module. Preferable on the opposite side of the enemy from my teammates.

I have the range at 300m. What I do is combine it with seismic (400m), so I can see their group, move slightly closer, pop, and watch the fireworks, especially since I know they probably will see my ping and come closer for a kill.

[Tolkien]

hammerreborn, on 21 June 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

I have the range at 300m. What I do is combine it with seismic (400m), so I can see their group, move slightly closer, pop, and watch the fireworks, especially since I know they probably will see my ping and come closer for a kill.

In the mechbay it quotes the range as 240m even on the MC version - bug?

[hammerreborn]

Tolkien, on 21 June 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

In the mechbay it quotes the range as 240m even on the MC version - bug?

You have to buy the UAV upgrade, which increases the range by 25% (60m), making it 300.

[Sephlock]

hammerreborn, on 21 June 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

I have the range at 300m. What I do is combine it with seismic (400m), so I can see their group, move slightly closer, pop, and watch the fireworks, especially since I know they probably will see my ping and come closer for a kill.

Stop using skill and/or intelligence (both kinds) to win games! NERF SEISMIC PGI! OMGWTF!

[hammerreborn]

Sephlock, on 21 June 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

Stop using skill and/or intelligence (both kinds) to win games! NERF SEISMIC PGI! OMGWTF!

To be fair, I only just started using seimic with it, because I was getting tired of doing it the hard way and constantly having multiple assaults aiming at me as I came out of Jenner Highway because LOL WALLHAX.

[Ursus_Spiritus]

I scout in Medium (147KPH Cicada) and I certainly don't hide behind the sloths. Not sure who you are dropping with as scouts but when the light is green on the drop indicator I am one of if not the first out across the map.

Looking for targets, capping bases, chasing down lights and harassing enemy heavies and assaults.

I am guessing OP hasn't dropped with scouts that know what they are doing and or how to load out their mechs.

What I find amusing is that CGB uses some of the lightest and fastest Clan Mechs in the known MW/Battletech universe.. (If they give us our due light mechs....) *glares at PGI*

And for the people crying unfair about seismic...
Do you not get the concept that a multi-tonne bipedal object running/walking along at such a speed would create tremors and that the technology is NOT available...?

You would think that in the current time line that the technology would be available to detect a 20ton, let alone a 100 ton mech moving along at a decent clip..

Just saying...

Edited by 8100d 5p4tt3r, 23 June 2013 - 04:52 AM.

[Tolkien]

hammerreborn, on 21 June 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

You have to buy the UAV upgrade, which increases the range by 25% (60m), making it 300.

I have both of the upgrades (duration and range) in the pilot lab. When I select the Cbill UAV and go to description it says "Increases the amount of time a UAV is active by 15 seconds", while when I select the MC UAV and go to description it says "An unmanned aerial vehicle used for reconaissance with a 240m radius and lasts for 60 seconds. Consumed on use".

I think my confusion about the range and duration is due to these nonsensical descriptions not matching what the equipment will actually do if it's a 300m range (and 75 second duration?)

[hammerreborn]

Tolkien, on 21 June 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

I have both of the upgrades (duration and range) in the pilot lab. When I select the Cbill UAV and go to description it says "Increases the amount of time a UAV is active by 15 seconds", while when I select the MC UAV and go to description it says "An unmanned aerial vehicle used for reconaissance with a 240m radius and lasts for 60 seconds. Consumed on use".

I think my confusion about the range and duration is due to these nonsensical descriptions not matching what the equipment will actually do if it's a 300m range (and 75 second duration?)

I went to the patch notes for confirmation and it seems that they didn't even do those right...it says 240 for the regular AND MC version, and doesn't give a range for either the upgraded UAV. Maybe it is 240m

Quote

New Consumable Modules:

UAVs - General Info:

- With a UAV module equipped, you can press Insert to launch a UAV into the air, 150 m directly above you. The UAV will automatically target all enemy Mechs that come within its sensor radius; this information will be shared to your team
- A UAV will not launch if there is insufficient clearance above you
- The UAV can target Mechs that are shielded by ECM and will share this with your team
- Like other shared enemy information, friendly Mechs blocked by ECM will not be able to receive this
- A UAV will be destroyed after taking a cumulative 10 damage. The UAV will self-destruct after being in the air for a certain length of time
- Destroying an enemy UAV is worth 50 XP

Consumable Module: UAV

- Automatically unlocked
- 40,000 C-Bills
- Hovers for 45 seconds before self-destructing
- Detects enemies up to 240 m away
- Can be detected and targeted by enemies within 180 m
- Consumed upon use

Consumable Module: Advanced UAV

- Automatically unlocked
- 15 MC
- Hovers for 60 seconds before self-destructing
- Detects enemies up to 240 m away
- Can be detected and targeted by enemies within 180 m
- Consumed upon use

Upgrade Module: Improved UAV

- 15,000 GXP to unlock
- Upgrades the UAV module
- Increases the UAV's hover time by 15 seconds (60 seconds total)
- Does not need to be equipped to a BattleMech

Upgrade Module: UAV Upgrade

- 15,000 GXP to unlock
- Increases the sensor range of all your UAVs by 25%
- Does not need to be equipped to a BattleMech

And why the hell is enter no longer adding a paragraph break on these ******* forums.

Edited by hammerreborn, 21 June 2013 - 02:19 PM.

[Tolkien]

So in conclusion we aren't sure what the range of the UAV is, what the duration is, but we're pretty sure it detects stuff pretty damn well

I like how the description text for the UAV is a one line description of what one of the pilot unlocked buffs is doing.... UI2.0 can't come soon enough.

[hammerreborn]

Tolkien, on 21 June 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

So in conclusion we aren't sure what the range of the UAV is, what the duration is, but we're pretty sure it detects stuff pretty damn well

I like how the description text for the UAV is a one line description of what one of the pilot unlocked buffs is doing.... UI2.0 can't come soon enough.

WHY CAN'T I HIT ENTER ON THESE FORUMS, JESUS. But we can tell that the duration is 60s, because the MC is generally the standard UAV with all upgrades. That's why there is confusion about the upgraded UAV being 240 or 180m.

Edited by hammerreborn, 21 June 2013 - 02:24 PM.

[Oppresor]

I fully support the Recon concept and have a dedicated Spider 5K that I run from time to time in that mode. When I run Recon I don't fear Snipers because I know how hard it is to Snipe a Spider. (My main unit is an Atlas Sniper) What I fear most, no matter what role I am running in is the single most deadly fire unit in MWO; the Jenner. These things are almost as fast as the Spider and possess a lot more firepower.

The problem is exacerbated because in order to improve survivability of the Spider (Remember its primary role in Recon is to stay alive and feedback tactical info to your lance; not to engage the enemy) I carry an AMS at the expense of almost all offensive weaponry.

Having said that, I have found it can be a good idea to carry an Artillery Strike Module because Recon can very easily become a FOO as well.

.

[Tolkien]

hammerreborn, on 21 June 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

WHY CAN'T I HIT ENTER ON THESE FORUMS, JESUS. But we can tell that the duration is 60s, because the MC is generally the standard UAV with all upgrades. That's why there is confusion about the upgraded UAV being 240 or 180m.

I want to believe that duration part too, but just to muddy the waters, the description of the pilot skills for UAVs are very suspicious....

1) Improved UAV "Increases the amount of time a UAV is active by 15 seconds."
That one appears squarely aimed at the Cbill UAVs.
2) UAV upgrade "Permanently increases the range of all UAVs by 25%"
Meaning the MC version is not as good as it could be without this upgrade? Odd I thought the MC consumables were meant to be top of the line from day 1 to offset the fact you're spending real money on them.

Hmmmmm....