387 replies to this topic

[DocBach]

SuomiWarder, on 17 July 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

Early B Tech novels had the "golden lock". When the target computer finally crunched all the numbers and had all the weapons set to converge on the targeted enemy the lock turned gold color. We need some sort of system where the convergance takes time to get tight.

this is actually the inspiration for the reactive reticle, the factors that change convergence speed are based off of the factors which affected accuracy in Battletech.

[Homeless Bill]

I'm officially counting down the days until they move this to the Website & Forum board.

[DocBach]

Or like this board:

日本語フォーラム


where nobody could understand it if they saw it, anyways

Edited by DocBach, 17 July 2013 - 05:12 PM.

[Damocles]

We freakin need this change so badly, just seeing it has wrecked my desire to play MWO in its current iteration.

[Ken Fury]

DocBach, on 17 July 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

The idea is to make single fire, thus spreading damage, the preferred method of attacks until the right moment where you get a good firing solution for firing a group shot -- for all 'Mechs; the speed of convergence is faster against slower 'Mechs, and longer against light 'Mechs, so concentrated damage would be limited both ways. However the suggested reticle does include an aiming point for your weapons even if the convergence isn't completely obtained, so you can still inflict damage, just not to a single location. You can also fire groups of weapons in the same location at the same aiming points so.

Quad and Heax PPC Stalkers already need to "single" fire. And it's not stopping them. So your solution wouldn't stop it either. Please accept it.

[Teralitha]

Damocles, on 17 July 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

We freakin need this change so badly, just seeing it has wrecked my desire to play MWO in its current iteration.

Change IS needed, but not this.... This idea is just a bad poorly thought out one.... Too many people blindly liking posts like this without even realizing what it is that they are supporting just because.... it haz pictures!. Bad mojo.

Edited by Teralitha, 17 July 2013 - 10:56 PM.

[Kabaluk]

I approve the idea of the OP.
Shame it will NEVER be implemented.

[DocBach]

Tank Boy Ken, on 17 July 2013 - 10:05 PM, said:

Quad and Heax PPC Stalkers already need to "single" fire. And it's not stopping them. So your solution wouldn't stop it either. Please accept it.

Nobody has been forced into actually chain firing. Large PPC boats can still fire in pairs, and when they fire in single shot you can torso twist and spread the damage out, unlike before where doing so in say any 'Mech smaller than 65 tons would cause you to lose the location you were shielding with. 2x PPC/Gauss combos are the winner of the new heat changes can still fire together for large alpha strikes to one location. Regardless of what you say, if grouped weapons were split up from the same point of impact, survivability would increase further. It takes much more patience for the opportune shots to fire weapons in sequence into the same location rather than all of them at the same time into the same location - damage gets spread out rather than concentrated.

[RANSARI]

DocBach, on 18 July 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

Nobody has been forced into actually chain firing. Large PPC boats can still fire in pairs, and when they fire in single shot you can torso twist and spread the damage out, unlike before where doing so in say any 'Mech smaller than 65 tons would cause you to lose the location you were shielding with. 2x PPC/Gauss combos are the winner of the new heat changes can still fire together for large alpha strikes to one location. Regardless of what you say, if grouped weapons were split up from the same point of impact, survivability would increase further. It takes much more patience for the opportune shots to fire weapons in sequence into the same location rather than all of them at the same time into the same location - damage gets spread out rather than concentrated.

Quoted for truth. I'm running a cheese Guasslander myself, and the other day I had the pleasure of dropping with a CTF-3D premade of 4... Those guys single handedly manhandled the opposing team and none of them died. All they did was poptart, maneuver some, focus down any fool who singled out himself, and just let that 35 dmg pinpoint alpha rake in the cash. My support STK-3F with Lrm 30s only did 84 damage in that match and I used up 5 tons of ammo. The other assault was a Guasslander Heavy Metal and he didn't get to do much work either.

So yeah, I think DocBach and a whole bunch of other reasonable folk have a point here about the Convergence. If PGI wants to keep their jobs, they really need to take a long look down this abyssal cess pool and fix it.

Edited by RANSARI, 18 July 2013 - 08:27 AM.

[ManDaisy]

Put a question pertaining to this in as the devs 43. Show your support !

umm please do it in ask the devs not here.

Edited by ManDaisy, 18 July 2013 - 11:15 AM.

[soarra]

Teralitha, on 17 July 2013 - 10:55 PM, said:

Change IS needed, but not this.... This idea is just a bad poorly thought out one.... Too many people blindly liking posts like this without even realizing what it is that they are supporting just because.... it haz pictures!. Bad mojo.

or we read it, understand i and still liked it. You have posted such valid responses to why you don't like it.

[DocBach]

ManDaisy, on 18 July 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

Put a question pertaining to this in as the devs 43. Show your support !

umm please do it in ask the devs not here.

Mind linking the ATD post to this thread so people know what the reactive reticle is if they haven't read it?

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2570413

[Felicitatem Parco]

miSs, on 12 July 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

Question from Dude42: Do you have any plans to address instant convergence and give usefulness back to that pilot skill, or are instant pinpoint alphas here to stay?

Answer from Paul: Weapon convergence is a tough nut to crack. We want to keep the number of random “dice rolls” to a minimum, and network synchronization can become unpredictable when trying to determine a convergence point that may or may not be moving. It will be necessary to make the convergence point calculation server authoritive and that can cause a desync due to the fact that the simulation runs at different frequencies on the server and client.

So, I am rereading this section of AtD #42, along with other posts in this train of thought.

It seems like the current reason we have rapid/instant convergence now instead of the older system that included slow convergence is because they removed the slow convergence for networking reasons. They had a gradual convergence system earlier and they had to remove it, which means adding a Reactive Reticule might be untenable.

Convergence calculations have to be server-authoritative because a local-client Hacker could simply make his system tell the server that he was fully-converged on target if the convergence calculations were just client-side; you can't have a client-side Convergence system because it is highly-fallible. This means a reactive reticule would be performing MORE than the amount of server-side calculations that were already being performed under the old system (which they say is untenable)...

I think that a Reactive Reticule would need to be actively operating multiple rangefinders, cross-referencing those rangefinders with the Servers using a HSR-type system, and then finally applying the convergence adjustments to your weapons only after those calculations are made... and this is happening all the time thoughout the entire match (since your weapons are: Online from the start of the match)... and even then, that doesn't even include the calculations involved with firing the weapons, themselves, if you choose to shoot at something.

The RR system being suggested here might be too network-intensive.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 19 July 2013 - 12:23 PM.

[Lord of All]

Prosperity Park, on 19 July 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

So, I am rereading this section of AtD #42, along with other posts in this train of thought.

It seems like the current reason we have rapid/instant convergence now instead of the older system that included slow convergence is because they removed the slow convergence for networking reasons. They had a gradual convergence system earlier and they had to remove it, which means adding a Reactive Reticule might be untenable.

Convergence calculations have to be server-authoritative because a local-client Hacker could simply make his system tell the server that he was fully-converged on target if the convergence calculations were just client-side; you can't have a client-side Convergence system because it is highly-fallible. This means a reactive reticule would be performing MORE than the amount of server-side calculations that were already being performed under the old system (which they say is untenable)...

I think that a Reactive Reticule would need to be actively operating multiple rangefinders, cross-referencing those rangefinders with the Servers using a HSR-type system, and then finally applying the convergence adjustments to your weapons only after those calculations are made... and this is happening all the time thoughout the entire match (since your weapons are: Online from the start of the match)... and even then, that doesn't even include the calculations involved with firing the weapons, themselves, if you choose to shoot at something.

The RR system being suggested here might be too network-intensive.

Good post, My convergence Idea would not be effected by this issue. Check it out.

[soarra]

Prosperity Park, on 19 July 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

So, I am rereading this section of AtD #42, along with other posts in this train of thought.

It seems like the current reason we have rapid/instant convergence now instead of the older system that included slow convergence is because they removed the slow convergence for networking reasons. They had a gradual convergence system earlier and they had to remove it, which means adding a Reactive Reticule might be untenable.

Convergence calculations have to be server-authoritative because a local-client Hacker could simply make his system tell the server that he was fully-converged on target if the convergence calculations were just client-side; you can't have a client-side Convergence system because it is highly-fallible. This means a reactive reticule would be performing MORE than the amount of server-side calculations that were already being performed under the old system (which they say is untenable)...

I think that a Reactive Reticule would need to be actively operating multiple rangefinders, cross-referencing those rangefinders with the Servers using a HSR-type system, and then finally applying the convergence adjustments to your weapons only after those calculations are made... and this is happening all the time thoughout the entire match (since your weapons are: Online from the start of the match)... and even then, that doesn't even include the calculations involved with firing the weapons, themselves, if you choose to shoot at something.

The RR system being suggested here might be too network-intensive.

too intensive for this network? I think its time they put our founders and phoenix money towards gerbils to replace the hamsters

[DocBach]

If the servers can't handle convergence speed based off of combat modifiers, perhaps a more simple concept of a hard time for convergence to be obtained like a missile lock that stays the same? The pinpoint skill could decrease the time for that lock by 15% and actually do something.

Or even if the reticle stayed the same, but the different torso weapons had different points of convergence that never changed at all, so damage was spread out just a little bit as in this image:

Edited by DocBach, 20 July 2013 - 10:26 AM.

[soarra]

why is this thread on the second page? too many good ideas here

[Kabaluk]

Are bumps ilegal?

[soarra]

Kabaluk, on 21 July 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

Are bumps ilegal?

probably not

[Lord of All]

Kabaluk, on 21 July 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

Are bumps ilegal?

Should be, but at least a doctor can cure them!