965 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Liquidx, on 26 June 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

yay for reading comprehension.

8 of those 12 mechs are easily purchasable with cbills, so they have very little to no actual value, it's not like cbills are hard to come by in this game.

<snip>

So for that extra $40 bucks as a founder you got 20,000 cbills (worth $80), phoenix pack gets 4 ugly cockpit items and $15 worth of mech bays.
How exactly is the phoenix pack better again ?

Depends on your perspective. I'm a casual player, wherein playing 25 games in a weekend is very difficult. cbills are not numerous for me. I can earn real money (relative to the value of the mechs) far faster than I can earn cbills. Playing 4-6 matches a day, it'd take me easily a month+ to just buy the three battlemasters I need to master them, let alone to fully upgrade them all with DHS and whatnot.

This pack gets me, then, 12 mechs - all I need for 4 chassis masters - without needing to grind away with all my playing time.

This frees my limited cbills so I can have more than one of each module and stop constantly switching them from mech to mech with every drop. I'll finally be able to buy more engines, to stop playing Find The Engine too - a very unpleasant game when you've got 20+(before this package!) mechs.

All that's not to mention how we Overlord package buyers will have all these mechs on Oct 15th, instead of waiting until as late as January for the Battlemasters.

This is an outstanding deal.


Edit: Aside from disagreeing about what a great deal the Pheonix Pack is, I'm right on board with your previous post. There's no slight to founders here, who also got a great deal and arguably a better one at the time because it was far more flexible for them going forward.

Founders will still be founders; it's the only one of these badges with any real prestige as far as I'm concerned: They're the ones who ponied up dough on nothing but a hope and a dream, and took the real risks to get the game going.

Edited by Wintersdark, 26 June 2013 - 05:59 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Liquidx, on 26 June 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

Just because you don't like playing lights doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way. There are plenty of lights running around in the games I've played. It's 20 tons, moves like the wind, and has a small, spindly profile. I'll admit that if PGI actually had developed role warfare, it would be a lot more appealing than it is now because it can't carry much for weapons loadout, but I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of TT players who would like to have it in their stable.

also.. why would they provide any incentive for spending less money on their product? that makes no sense at all.

I'm particularly pleased with how slender the legs are. They'll be much harder to hit.

[Skylarr]

Quote

Old Image


New Image??



BattleMaster


Model BLR-1G
Cost 8,501,243 C-bills
Mass 85 tons

The BattleMaster carried a Donal PPC as its main weapon, which allowed the 'Mech to cause damage at ranges exceeding five hundred meters. For close range combat, the 'Mech was armed with six Martell Medium Lasers, which gave the 'Mech the ability to unleash a devastating barrage of lasers at short to medium ranges. The short-range firepower was further enhanced with a Holly SRM-6, which could seek out weak points in the enemy’s armor. Finally, the BattleMaster was equipped with two Sperry Browning Machine Guns, which deterred infantry attacks.

Two of these Mediums are rear facing. I wonder if they are turning them around or removing them.

[Liquidx]

Khobai, on 26 June 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

I absolutely agree. Which is why we should be able to CHOOSE at least one of the mechs we want in each of the packages.


It makes perfect sense. People who spent $80 likely wouldve spent $80 either way. People who wouldve spent $20-$40 are spending $0 because they cant choose the mechs they buy.

Not everyone wants to spend $80 on a buggy, unbalanced game that is on the decline when they could spend $80 during the steam summer sale and get 8-10 games, any one of which is considered a better game than MWO.

However, I like MWO just enough to spend $20 or $40 if I could get the mech I wanted. But since I can't get the mech I want, I will be spending $0. That is a loss of a sale for PGI.

Well in economics, it is the market that dictates the price and value of a product, but the vendor is the one that dictates what the product actually is. I agree that PGI would be wise to offer hero variants for these 4 mechs for purchase individually once the content is in the game - but they're obviously trying to get more money right now, not later.

Also, the price for a battlemaster is about 4x the price of a locust so any future battlemaster hero price would have to be higher to reflect that I think. Typically people expect discounts when buying in quantity as well, so buying 4 mechs as a package should be cheaper or have more value than buying 4 mechs individually. Part of that trade off might be that you can't cherry pick your mech for minimal investment. It's like buying a variety pack of beer and complaining that you don't like the IPA, and want lager instead. Don't complain about the IPA, just go buy the lager (when/if it's available). If it never becomes available then I guess that's more of the value added to buying the package right now.

I agree on your point about the steam sale and mwo being unfinished etc for certain - but as rough around the edges as the game is, you're still playing it and contemplating spending money on the game, and if a battlemaster hero mech comes available in January (as opposed to october for people who buy the package), then it sounds like you'd drop your money on that without argument. Granted, you wouldn't get the mech 3 months early, get 2 variants free, get free mech bays for them, or the bonus premium time.. That stuff has value to some people, I don't know if it's an extra $60 value, but early access is early access.

Wintersdark, on 26 June 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

This is an outstanding deal.

I agree, the package has bang for the buck. I was never disputing that, just the comparison of founders vs phoenix - playing time not accounted for .

[Khobai]

Quote

Also, the price for a battlemaster is about 4x the price of a locust so any future battlemaster hero price would have to be higher to reflect that I think

Which is wrong. Because the Jenner and Atlas were valued equally in the Founder's package. Also the lack of tonnage matching in matches implies that light mechs and assault mechs are equal on the battlefield. So why should the Battlemaster's price be higher if matchmaker considers it equal to the Locust? PGI charging more for higher tonnage mechs has always been a bad business practice. All mechs should cost the same regardless of tonnage.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Skylarr, on 26 June 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Two of these Mediums are rear facing. I wonder if they are turning them around or removing them.

Turning them to face front like they've done with rear facing weapons on every mech so far, like the Atlas' two rear facing mediums. Anything else would be a big surprise given they've said they're not going to make it possible to fire to the rear (well, without having crazy torso twist like the old Catapult twist).

[Wintersdark]

Skylarr, on 26 June 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Two of these Mediums are rear facing. I wonder if they are turning them around or removing them.

They'll turn them around, that's been the approach they've used in the past.

[Liquidx]

Khobai, on 26 June 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Which is wrong. Because the Jenner and Atlas were valued equally in the Founder's package. Also the lack of tonnage matching in matches implies that light mechs and assault mechs are equal on the battlefield. So why should the Battlemaster's price be higher if matchmaker considers it equal to the Locust? PGI charging more for higher tonnage mechs has always been a bad business practice. All mechs should cost the same regardless of tonnage.

I disagree completely.
Assault mechs are obviously more powerful when piloted by competent pilots, and light mechs just don't have the combat effectiveness to stand up 1 on 1 to an assault. Also, to avoid assault warrior online, heavier mechs need to cost more.

That being said, the game's current level of development leaves a lot to be desired in a direct comparison. Bad game design, not bad business practice. This is exactly your point from previous posts. You want the 85 ton mech, and scoff at the 20 ton. So why should you pay the same amount for the 20 ton mech as the 85 ton one given the current game mechanics and features?

The founder's pack and the ability to pick and choose your mech should be considered an anomaly. It was the initial offering of this kind of package, and one that provided a lot of start up capital for the game. Plus, it was a year ago - I'm sure their business model and financial planning has changed as they have been faced with new challenges in development (notably, not being able to deliver certain features in a timely manner). The two packages are really apples and oranges when you apply context.

Either way.. it isn't going to change with this package.

[ryoma]

Goes to MWO Dealership
Customer 1: Hello! I would like to buy this new Truck
PGI: Great, well limited time you can get this truck and several add-ons for a great discount! You'll get the truck, a flimsy vespa, a sports car, and a mini van all for the low price of 80,000 dollars!
Customer: But I just want the Truck and all I have is the 30,000 it's worth
PGI: *silence*
customer 2: Silly guy! It's such a great deal just fork over the 80,000!
Customer 1: But I can't afford it, also it's a bad business practice to keep the item I want hostage in order to get me to buy the fodder I don't want.
Customer 2: *various vitriolic comments*
Customer 1: Please PGI, reconsider?
PGI: *silence*
Customer 1: Ok, I'm going to another dealership to buy a truck. I wanted PGIs truck, but they wont sell it to me unless I buy a bunch of fodder.
Customer 2: I could afford 80k, why couldn't he? LOL

It's honestly embarrassing how rude fellow players have been to those asking for a deal the poorer or more picky players can enjoy. It's not that we don't want to spend money on MWO, it's that we WANT TO, but we cannot justify paying for things we don't want in bundles like this.

Edited by ryoma, 26 June 2013 - 08:34 PM.

[Wintersdark]

ryoma, on 26 June 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

Goes to MWO Dealership
Customer 1: Hello! I would like to buy this new Truck
PGI: Great, well limited time you can get this truck and several add-ons for a great discount! You'll get the truck, a flimsy vespa, a sports car, and a mini van all for the low price of 80,000 dollars!
Customer: But I just want the Truck and all I have is the 30,000 it's worth
PGI: *silence*
customer 2: Silly guy! It's such a great deal just fork over the 80,000!
Customer 1: But I can't afford it, also it's a bad business practice to keep the item I want hostage in order to get me to buy the fodder I don't want.
Customer 2: *various vitriolic comments*
Customer 1: Please PGI, reconsider?
PGI: *silence*
Customer 1: Ok, I'm going to another dealership to buy a truck. I wanted PGIs truck, but they wont sell it to me unless I buy a bunch of fodder.
Customer 2: I could afford 80k, why couldn't he? LOL

It's honestly embarrassing how rude fellow players have been to those asking for a deal the poorer or more picky players can enjoy. It's not that we don't want to spend money on MWO, it's that we WANT TO, but we cannot justify paying for things we don't want in bundles like this.

This is just silly, and wildly inaccurate.

You can't go "buy a truck at another dealership" as these don't even exist yet. You're pre-ordering; nobody else anywhere has these for sale or will.

Also, this is a "Package Deal", you get the package, or you don't get the deal. Not at all unusual. You'll be able to buy all the mechs when they are released, though, so it's not like this is the only way you can get them.

Well, except the Heros. They're a special deal, not sold separately. This, too, is not unusual. You can't buy a Founder's Atlas now, too.


The package here is clearly set up in much the same way as a Cable TV package, if I may draw my own tortured analogy.

My wife wants The Food Network. She loves her silly Food Network shows, but we watch nothing else on TV.

We cannot just get The Food Network at a reasonable price. We have to pay for a huge swaft of channels (the basic package) of which we want NONE. Then we have to buy another package that contains the Food Network (the "Lifestyle" package) - lots more we don't want, to get the one we do.

The reasoning is simple. You package less-wanted <products> with the highly desired <products>. This allows you to create a bundle deal offering a substantial value, which is encouraged by including highly desired <products> and fleshed with the rest.

Kind of annoying as a consumer? Sure. But it's still a great deal... And anyways as I said, you'll be able to just buy the (non-hero) mechs with c-bills later.

[ryoma]

Wintersdark, on 26 June 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

This is just silly, and wildly inaccurate.

You can't go "buy a truck at another dealership" as these don't even exist yet. You're pre-ordering; nobody else anywhere has these for sale or will.

Also, this is a "Package Deal", you get the package, or you don't get the deal. Not at all unusual. You'll be able to buy all the mechs when they are released, though, so it's not like this is the only way you can get them.

Well, except the Heros. They're a special deal, not sold separately. This, too, is not unusual. You can't buy a Founder's Atlas now, too.


The package here is clearly set up in much the same way as a Cable TV package, if I may draw my own tortured analogy.

My wife wants The Food Network. She loves her silly Food Network shows, but we watch nothing else on TV.

We cannot just get The Food Network at a reasonable price. We have to pay for a huge swaft of channels (the basic package) of which we want NONE. Then we have to buy another package that contains the Food Network (the "Lifestyle" package) - lots more we don't want, to get the one we do.

The reasoning is simple. You package less-wanted <products> with the highly desired <products>. This allows you to create a bundle deal offering a substantial value, which is encouraged by including highly desired <products> and fleshed with the rest.

Kind of annoying as a consumer? Sure. But it's still a great deal... And anyways as I said, you'll be able to just buy the (non-hero) mechs with c-bills later.

This I fully understand. Hence why I am going to take my money to another game. (thats what I meant by at another dealership.) PGI can choose to do business however they want and I can choose to spend however I want. Yes Package deals are effective, but they don't work on people who opt to just not spend.

Honestly more mad at the community for being so vitriolic to people asking for alternative packages.

Like I said, I want to spend money on this, but I can't justify spending so much when I don't want most of the packaged materials.

End result is that I buy the mechs I want with C-Bills. Unfortunately this means PGI does not get my cash they wanted and I don't get the C-BIll bonus variants that I wanted.

Edited by ryoma, 26 June 2013 - 09:06 PM.

[The Crow2k]

Milt, on 25 June 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

its most likely the best deal ever, but will the game be here or worth playing in oct?

Which Kinda sucks since Founders Should have been the best deal ever but anyways.....

My main issue with this pack Vs Founder pack is that the variant mechs give a higher earning bonuses than the founder ones.

Edited by The Crow2k, 26 June 2013 - 09:36 PM.

[GodziIIa]

Antij, on 25 June 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

Ok. Its great, but can you tell me how i will understand that my purchase was successful if we will see all this benefits only in October? I had bought this package, but i haven't saw any messages telling me that it all right.

**Sorry for my english

You get a confirmation email, and to my knowledge there is absolutely no indication of confirmation on the MWO website itself which seems like a pretty important thing to add.

Edited by GodziIIa, 26 June 2013 - 09:44 PM.

[ryoma]

GodziIIa, on 26 June 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

You get a confirmation email, and to my knowledge there is absolutely no indication of confirmation on the MWO website itself which seems like a pretty important thing to add.

Someone asked earlier and apparently on mwomercs.com/phoenix it says what level you bought next to it.

[Khobai]

Quote

I disagree completely.
Assault mechs are obviously more powerful when piloted by competent pilots, and light mechs just don't have the combat effectiveness to stand up 1 on 1 to an assault. Also, to avoid assault warrior online, heavier mechs need to cost more.

You can disagree if you want. But it doesnt change the fact that matchmaking will put a Commando and Atlas on different teams without caring about the tonnage difference. As far as matchmaking is concerned they are equal.

[Wired]

THIS IS A REAL QUESTION NOT RELATED TO COMPLAINTS

How big exactly IS the locust? its loadout is similar to a spider - is it going to be considerably smaller? what is going to make a mech of that size and speed any different.

[ryoma]

Wired, on 26 June 2013 - 10:51 PM, said:

THIS IS A REAL QUESTION NOT RELATED TO COMPLAINTS

How big exactly IS the locust? its loadout is similar to a spider - is it going to be considerably smaller? what is going to make a mech of that size and speed any different.

Well it has no jump jets, less hard points, less tonnage and crit spaces to work with, and should hopefully be very very tiny. It can run a max of 130 KPH and maybe it and Flea will have exclusive use of MASC, which makes it very very fast.

In other words it's bad at everything except maybe capping.

[Lege]

I'm not giving these guys $20 for locusts. If they did a $40 package with the shadow hawk and battlemaster I might go for that. They really need to give light and medium mechs some love before they get any more of my money. I won't drive mechs under 35 tons, I just won't do it. The game needs balancing and true double heats, in addition a lot of bugs that need to get fixed. Notably crashes, maps that are too big, holes in the maps, places you get stuck on maps and just a general sense of polish. This is still a game in beta and this is the second money grab they have done. I'm still waiting for the Orion to get released. I'd also like to see the dervish get released, but the shadow hawk could be just as good. Hunchbacks just haven't been as good since the engine nerf, they really need a tweak to a 280 engine cap.

[John MatriX82]

LauLiao, on 26 June 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Meh, too many assaults in the game anyway. I'm fine with them doing it like this. Maybe it'll finally encourage people to use Lights/Mediums for once.

I'm a former medium pilot, albeit due to ELO I'm virtually stuck into the stalker hell, and I've got 27 mechs dusting off due to this. But the issue is that I'd like to contribute by buying what I want, without forcing me to get what I don't. I'm fine if they won't make this, I'll gladly save some money, but since I'd like the Shadow Hawk and probably the Battlemaster only, I don't really want to have to pay for the locust at all, even for the Thunderbolt.

Edited by John MatriX82, 27 June 2013 - 02:09 AM.

[Jungle Rhino]

Has anybody else noticed that PGI's list of upcoming features is exactly the same as it was a year ago when founders was launched? What have they ACTUALLY added to the game in a year?

Three maps
A bunch of mechs
Endless sales/promotional events
Consumables nobody wanted

Yes they 'fixed' the netcode but hell - it shouldn't have been broken in the first place I don't count that as an acheivement - you don't start selling your damn game without functional netcode!

I can't beleive people are buying into this - AGAIN