522 replies to this topic

[Solis Obscuri]

Solis Obscuri, on 27 June 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Jesus Christ, you're making the frickin' Cataphract more mobile than the Quickdraw? And the Jagermech?

As predicted, QKD is crap after this patch. Why would you saddle a 'mech which is for all intents and purposes a slightly overgrown medium with a ridiculously huge collision mesh that gets it stuck on everything around it, and then exacerbate that further by using collision mesh as the sole arbiter for what slopes a 'mech can climb? Why wouldn't you base it on the 'mech's intended combat role instead, so the new mechanic makes sense from a gameplay perspective?

[Tezcatli]

The random dead stops obviously have to go.

I guess it makes sense that walking too close to a building or rock will slow you down. But sometimes it's like a complete loss of speed. And like someone else said an indication that we're colliding with a building or rock would be nice.

Honestly the game feels less smooth. But I guess since we're piloting mechs, it's supposed to be that way, but it certainly needs some tweeking. I really wouldn't be surprised if you end up scaling back some of the penalties.

[Theodor Kling]

I also like the intend, and the general direction this system tries to go to.
But like other already said some tweaking :
Height dependent ignoring of limitations. There is no reason a mech should not be able to simply step on /over something at shin height, maybe even knee height ( admittedly, some mechs could deal with knee high better then others).
And although it is more work, please make it per mech, not class. Some mechs in the same class have different leg lengths.

Make more intermediate steps for speed decline, so that speed drops are more gradual, less binary.

Give humanoid mechs with hands the ability to climb obstacles up to hip height at near zero speed. ( best with an actual climbing animation. Ok this is too much work for now, but maybe one day...

Give special treatment to things that simply won't stop a mech, like pebbles or little drifts of snow on the corner of a building. It is annoying to get stuck because a thin crust of snow on the side of a building is too steep for you mech when moving near perpendicular to the building face. Even the lightest mech is heavy enough to ignore that bit of snow.
To clarify: I am not speaking about the tunnel entrance or other big blocks of snow and ice. Just those loose snowdrifts.

[Chavette]

Movement penalties in general encourage stationary, turret style game play, of which we have too many already.

Something needs to be done balance this and give incentive to move, secondary(time-based?) objectives would be a good idea.

Edited by Chavette, 03 July 2013 - 11:27 PM.

[X T R E M E]

Thank you for having destroyed the game ...... !

[VXJaeger]

XtremeAlex, on 04 July 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

Thank you for having destroyed the game ...... !

I can't even count anymore how many times I've read this whine. So far everything has destroyed the game, but still it's alive and kicking. Strange

[X T R E M E]

while walking you can not stop the mech .... must go slow but must walk.

[Errinovar]

I like it, but one thing I noticed is that it really doesn't account for the actual height of the slope. I find in maps like Night City there are many places where the incline is roughly about the height of a single step for a mech, but I slow down to a crawl. I kind of think that many actual map builds were overlooked when this change came into play. Effectively stepping up on a curb shouldn't slow the mech that much.. climbing a hill, sure.

[oldradagast]

Errinovar, on 04 July 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

I like it, but one thing I noticed is that it really doesn't account for the actual height of the slope. I find in maps like Night City there are many places where the incline is roughly about the height of a single step for a mech, but I slow down to a crawl. I kind of think that many actual map builds were overlooked when this change came into play. Effectively stepping up on a curb shouldn't slow the mech that much.. climbing a hill, sure.

Exactly. The slope angle is checked, nothing more, so a rock no taller than your foot with a 55-degree angle is impassable. Similarly silliness happens at the crest of hills that were otherwise gentle slopes, and even in random patches of terrain that otherwise fall within the "safe travel" limit.

I feel like I'm piloting a bowling ball now that rolls along the landscape (until it gets snagged on an unmovable, indestructible rock) vs. piloting a mech that has legs that can be lifted over small obstacles.

The random slowdowns need to be removed, rocks should not cause snags or stops, mechs should not go to zero speed unless trying to do something insane (climbing the 80-degree slopes in Alpine), and speeds should not fall as fast as they do - right now, it's as if the maps are covered with random patches of super-glue.

Edited by oldradagast, 04 July 2013 - 05:14 AM.

[Dukarriope]

This can only be a good, realistic change and I'll welcome it (even if I'm hating it at current because I haven't gotten used to it), but I believe to compensate 'mechs with jumpjets need to be able to jump higher (about 50% higher than they can now imo), especially if they have full jets.
Currently there's almost no way for 'mechs with jets to achieve their verticality metagame, and I find that still leaves them without a distinct advantage given that a majority of the 45 degree slopes are obviously too high for most jetting 'mechs. Either that or 'mechs with jets need to have some ability to push forward a bit instead of having to rely absolutely on momentum to climb with jets.

And of course there's that problem that people mention about how 'mechs now are having trouble crossing over stones that are even smaller than their stride.

Edited by Dukarriope, 04 July 2013 - 05:17 AM.

[An Ax Murderer]

See thread for some issues that could use tweaking.

http://mwomercs.com/...omentum-issues/

[DeaconW]

oldradagast, on 04 July 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

- I feel like I'm piloting a bowling ball now that rolls along the landscape (until it gets snagged on an unmovable, indestructible rock) vs. piloting a mech that has legs that can be lifted over small obstacles.
...
- right now, it's as if the maps are covered with random patches of super-glue.

These are great descriptors of what is happening...I intend to steal them and use them...

[AndyHill]

A good start, but some tweaking required. It's probably not going to be trivial to implement by any means, but one of the things MWO really needs is some kind of leg movement modeling, since that's one of the main things that separate stompy robots from tanks. The 'mechs should not be able to traverse steep hills, but they absolutely should be able to step over knee-high obstacles - and preferably animate neatly when they do.

[Trev Firestorm]

XtremeAlex, on 04 July 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

Thank you for having improved the game ...... !

fixed

[Galerius]

I like the changes, but man, ease up on the sudden drop of momentum and the unsurmountable pebbles on the path. Bring it a notch or two down. As it is, is almost a passing grade.

[Steel Claws]

I don't think 45 degrees wasa good cut off point. There are some slopes just to the right of the buildings on Alpine that look gradual enough that you "should" be able to climb them in a biped machine but can't. About 60 degrees is were it becomes almost to hard for humans to negotiate. I think that would be a better point for zero speed and it would allow a more reasonable access to certain maps while keeping the way too steep out of range.

[Draecos]

Just want to add my two cents.

I like what you guys are trying to do. Slowing down mechs crossing difficult terrain, or going uphill? Makes sense. Some slopes should NOT be negotiable, and really, most of the ones that you couldn't climb before..... were dead on (80%+ of them anyway).

BUT.....
A mech is NOT a tank. A mech has significant advantages over tanks for being able to cover terrain tanks can't. A mech SHOULD be able to go up a 45 degree slope... it's heavy and it's feet and gyro should allow for it. Quickly?..... not likely, as it's putting extra stress on the frame and engine. It's simply more work (go check a physics book).

As it is right now, the changes are too "aggressive". That said.... I'm not one for complaining without a proposal to fix.

Slopes impose a speed reduction as the mech strains to climb. This is the average slope for a certain section (so that a graphics bug, or one small patch or rock that is 60 degrees doesn't turn what is mostly a 30 degree slope into impassable).

15 degree angle.... 15% speed reduction
30 degree angle.... 30% speed reduction
45 degrees angle.... 50% speed reduction
60 degrees..... 80% speed reduction

Anything more is not passable (unless you have jump jets).


Otherwise..... good effort. Poor execution.

Edited by Draecos, 04 July 2013 - 07:38 PM.

[Hitenryu]

Why can't my mech climb up a hill? This patch is stupid.

[Draecos]

Chavette, on 03 July 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

Movement penalties in general encourage stationary, turret style game play, of which we have too many already.

Something needs to be done balance this and give incentive to move, secondary(time-based?) objectives would be a good idea.

Great point. Unless you want to see static, long-range weapon boats just picking a spot and watching a sniper-thon, maneuvers NEED to be part of the game. Tactical sweeps and such are hindered by the current set-up.

[Mallet]

My experience with this last night was the reduction in movement was too instant. There should be a slowing down period allowing you to realize you're on a hill instead of the full speed, dead stop.

I see it as riding a bike up a hill, it's gets harder, harder then impossible, as it is in the game right now it's full speed then impossible instantly.

Mallet.